Cutting edge food plotting

[neonomad]

@Gator I think I remember from a while back in a google search seeing you mention broadcasting corn. I remember this only because not many folks do it… curious, have you had luck with it, without tilling / discing? I’m getting halfway decent at rolling / squashing / terminating winter grains down over seed in the early summer and avoiding glyphosate, you think corn seed under that would have a chance as long as it rained? The holy grail I’m chasing is doing that along with companion crops to minimize weeds and add nitrogen, just don’t know if it’s possible and how much effort I wanna waste this year.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Hmm, corn is a nitrogen hog so not sure that's what you want if that's you're primary goal. If you're throwing in soy beans, clovers, alfalfa, they are the major nitrogen fixing plants.

 

[Gator]

@Gator I think I remember from a while back in a google search seeing you mention broadcasting corn. I remember this only because not many folks do it… curious, have you had luck with it, without tilling / discing? I’m getting halfway decent at rolling / squashing / terminating winter grains down over seed in the early summer and avoiding glyphosate, you think corn seed under that would have a chance as long as it rained? The holy grail I’m chasing is doing that along with companion crops to minimize weeds and add nitrogen, just don’t know if it’s possible and how much effort I wanna waste this year.

Yes I've successfully done it. You need a lot of previous crop to lay down on top of it (more the better from a needing rain standpoint) and have to get lucky with timely rain. As always germination is reduced with this method. Rolling it after to get some seed to soil contact is critical even if that is just driving the truck/atv/tractor etc all over it. You will not get as good of a crop as you would drilling the seed to 1-2" but it "can" work. And yes the winter grains will help with the nitrogen but you will likely still need more but you would know better than me if you had this ground for a while. With all of that said, if I can ever find another 2-4 row notill planter for cheap, I will jump on it.

 

[BTaylor]

This is a really good warm season mix for improving soil and suppressing weeds. You could either get some of it or use it as a guide for building your own. We have been using their cool and warm season blends for a few years now and they have done as well as the weather has allowed.

Warm Season Soil Builder

Our Warm Season Soil Builder Mix includes over 13 different species designed for improving organic matter and controlling weeds. This diverse blend of legumes, grasses, brassicas, and broadleaves all work in synergy to build soil. Legumes convert nitrogen in the atmosphere and make it available...

store.greencover.com

 

[neonomad]

@SNIPERBBB I wasn’t clear there, meant incorporate companion crops like annual clover, beans, etc hoping to benefit the corn and keep the weeds down, kinda like the three sisters method.

@Gator same here, I should start keeping constant watch for a little no till, sure would help… but hard to find and expensive. The way I work around a crimper is rolling stuff down then light disc perpendicular. You may be one of the few people on the planet with successful broadcast no discoing corn experience, I’ll probably try this year…

 

[neonomad]

This is a really good warm season mix for improving soil and suppressing weeds. You could either get some of it or use it as a guide for building your own. We have been using their cool and warm season blends for a few years now and they have done as well as the weather has allowed.

Warm Season Soil Builder

Our Warm Season Soil Builder Mix includes over 13 different species designed for improving organic matter and controlling weeds. This diverse blend of legumes, grasses, brassicas, and broadleaves all work in synergy to build soil. Legumes convert nitrogen in the atmosphere and make it available...

store.greencover.com

Yes, something along these lines is what I’m thinking broadcast with the corn. I’ve considered maybe soak all seed overnight then mix with sand or kitty litter to broadcast, try to speed germination and get a jump on weeds. Trying to get creative here to avoid tillage and herbicide.

 

[BTaylor]

Yes, something along these lines is what I’m thinking broadcast with the corn. I’ve considered maybe soak all seed overnight then mix with sand or kitty litter to broadcast, try to speed germination and get a jump on weeds. Trying to get creative here to avoid tillage and herbicide.

If you havent done soil test, that would be the first thing I would do. If you need to improve the soil, I would not add corn in warm season planting or wheat in cool season planting. I would not soak the seed either, just get it out ahead of a good rain. Rather than adding sand or kitty litter, I would add pelletized lime unless your ph is already high. If you have a good thatch layer to roll down on the seed and get the seed out ahead of a decent rain, you will not have a moisture problem unless you get into an extended drought. Improving soil and controlling weeds is a process when you are not using tillage or herbicides. High biomass planting, esp in the warm season, will speed that process a bunch. Stick with it and you will have better, more productive soil. Also dont worry about a few weeds here and there. Deer will browse many of them and the pita stuff you can spot spray with gly if needed. We have to do that with thistle.

 

[neonomad]

Here’s a pic of last years thatch roll down in early June, it was almost too much rye… this was onto buckwheat seeds, the buckwheat was later smashed onto the fall foodplots and those did real well. Tillage and herbicide is easier but this is a fun process, when weather conditions cooperate…

 

[BTaylor]

That looks awesome. Big fan of rye. If you run a diverse warm season blend behind a rye crop like that, you should have really good weed suppression, continue building great soil and feed your deer through the summer. Plus you get the cover aspect as well.

 

[CooterBrown]

Here’s a pic of last years thatch roll down in early June, it was almost too much rye… this was onto buckwheat seeds, the buckwheat was later smashed onto the fall foodplots and those did real well. Tillage and herbicide is easier but this is a fun process, when weather conditions cooperate…View attachment 80994

What are you using a crimper?

 

[neonomad]

@BTaylor I know a lot of great stuff can be done without corn, it sounds like we’re well aligned on the soil building process, corn maybe “isn’t worth it”… but years ago a conventional Ag corn plot in this spot really pulled the deer in earlier in the evening so the temptation is there for me.

@CooterBrown man I wish, maybe someday. Currently roll a really old - maybe originally horse drawn - cultipacker over this, and then I do a quick pass with the discs perpendicular to the roll to get a good termination.

 

[CooterBrown]

@BTaylor I know a lot of great stuff can be done without corn, it sounds like we’re well aligned on the soil building process, corn maybe “isn’t worth it”… but years ago a conventional Ag corn plot in this spot really pulled the deer in earlier in the evening so the temptation is there for me.

@CooterBrown man I wish, maybe someday. Currently roll a really old - maybe originally horse drawn - cultipacker over this, and then I do a quick pass with the discs perpendicular to the roll to get a good termination.

Great idea I have access to both of them. Do you turn the disk as straight as possible or angle them.

 

[BTaylor]

If you did corn for a hunting plot, what plans for cool season? I suppose an option might be to replace the sorghum sudan and millet components of that mix I linked with corn. You could then broadcast oats, rye and some brassicas into that and not roll it for your hunting season plot. I have seen folks use a combo of corn and soybeans and it worked well but was on big plots.

 

[Gator]

Here’s a pic of last years thatch roll down in early June, it was almost too much rye… this was onto buckwheat seeds, the buckwheat was later smashed onto the fall foodplots and those did real well. Tillage and herbicide is easier but this is a fun process, when weather conditions cooperate…View attachment 80994

You could get corn seed to grow from under that without issue. I personally wouldn't pay for seed corn but if you are buying feed corn and broadcasting heavy you could get a good stand of corn.

 

[neonomad]

If you did corn for a hunting plot, what plans for cool season? I suppose an option might be to replace the sorghum sudan and millet components of that mix I linked with corn. You could then broadcast oats, rye and some brassicas into that and not roll it for your hunting season plot. I have seen folks use a combo of corn and soybeans and it worked well but was on big plots.

It’s a puzzle, I know… yes was thinking buy one of those seed tanks that mounts to the leaf blower, mow one or two strips so I can walk through the field (or just deal with walking through corn), and overseed late summer with the leaf blower throwing seed up and around. In the past six years I’ve done corn the conventional way twice here (1.5 acres), once it worked great, once it failed for some reason, probably lack of moisture. The good news is if it works it seems to last into late season, although every year our raccoon population seems to be climbing.

@CooterBrown the discs had some angle to them but the rye layer prevented any heavy soil disturbance with a single pass, I’d guess straight setting would work just fine too. I kinda wish I was set up to do all this with a four wheeler to reduce soil compaction, but I do some turnips and radishes so that probably helps and I try not to run the tractor around out there when the soil is wet.

 

[neonomad]

You could get corn seed to grow from under that without issue. I personally wouldn't pay for seed corn but if you are buying feed corn and broadcasting heavy you could get a good stand of corn.

Very interesting glad I tagged you, thanks a lot.

 

[Gator]

@BTaylor I know a lot of great stuff can be done without corn, it sounds like we’re well aligned on the soil building process, corn maybe “isn’t worth it”… but years ago a conventional Ag corn plot in this spot really pulled the deer in earlier in the evening so the temptation is there for me.

Asking if corn is worth it is a completely different question. I would say no myself, definitely not if you have bears anywhere near. I like soybeans way better and they are easier to broadcast your cover crop back into right before the leaves yellow out (now turkeys and birds are your enemy going this direction).

 

[kyler1945]

Man, I love hunting public ground. But just watching this conversation, and having a kid on the way, really makes me think about allocating my time in different ways.

No valuable input other than a thanks for having the conversation publicly.

 

[CooterBrown]

I wonder if using the cultipacker run one way and then 90 to cut the stem would work. My cultipacker has ridges around every 4 inches

 

[BTaylor]

@neonomad I know you mentioned broadcasting and rolling but do you have a NRCS office nearby where you could rent a drill? That is what we do for planting plots on my buddy's place. Seems like it cost a couple hundred dollars to rent. It is based on acreage planted and we are up to 19-20 acres. He had been seriously considering buying a drill but decided the rent was too cheap relative to the cost of a new one and decided to have a new crimper built that can be run off the front of the tractor ahead of the drill or can be run behind a tractor. Being able to drill will significantly reduce seed cost and improve germination. Not that broadcasting doesnt work. It does and can work well you just need to up the seeding rate for comparable results.