Agree! I’ve read where PETA is looking at drones to harass hunters in the field. Something to think about as well!
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Drone Deer Recovery
- Thread starter ricky racer
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Someone in MI has apparently considered it:
| Michigan | Mich. Compiled Laws Section 324.40112: Prohibits the use of drones to harass or interfere with a hunter (charged as a misdemeanor; up to 93 days incarceration and/or up to $1,000 fine per offense). |
Personally I don't care how you get a deer killed. I do know there are methods I won't employ. In states with a plethora of game animals like Illinois the game departments are always looking for ways to increase harvest. Although this states deer population has dropped to what seems to be an acceptable level for most folks. Not enough for the hunters like myself but still too many for farmers and insurance companies. In my opinion we've plateaued in our need for any new technology or weaponry to increase our harvest.
I know we're talking about recovering a deer already shot and not a new way to pursue the deer. Still, we don't know what the future will hold for any technology. It wasn't that long ago the poison arrow was outlawed. The line in the sand whereby hunters have greater and greater advantage over their prey gets lower and lower on the slope. What happens when we get to the bottom? Less tags, shorter seasons. Who wants that?
As a side note, we're already there in many states. The competition for an elk tag is completely out of control in places with those big deer.
Lastly, someone is going to argue that hunter numbers are in decline and the competition for tags and seasons will alleviate themselves. See paragraph above.
I know we're talking about recovering a deer already shot and not a new way to pursue the deer. Still, we don't know what the future will hold for any technology. It wasn't that long ago the poison arrow was outlawed. The line in the sand whereby hunters have greater and greater advantage over their prey gets lower and lower on the slope. What happens when we get to the bottom? Less tags, shorter seasons. Who wants that?
As a side note, we're already there in many states. The competition for an elk tag is completely out of control in places with those big deer.
Lastly, someone is going to argue that hunter numbers are in decline and the competition for tags and seasons will alleviate themselves. See paragraph above.
BenG
Well-Known Member
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I disagree with those of you arguing to just do you and let others do it how they want even as unethical as it may seem to you. Just because it's not fair to the deer that we hunt them does not mean we throw all rules of fair chase away and use any method we can to kill them. Should we then be allowed to chase them around on 4x4's and shoot them at night? I feel like the argument is almost if they have an allotted tag then who cares how they use it.
Everyone does need to hunt their own hunt but there is a point at which fair chase goes out the window. I agree 100% that there is a perceived fairness to others, but there is also a major element of fair chase to the animal that must be considered. To completely ignore that is, well ignorant. What kind of wildlife managers and conservationists would we be if we did that. Some of us do care very deeply about the animals we pursue and have enough respect for them to give them an opportunity for survival. It's not just some philosophical perceived level of fairness to the animal, there are in reality different degrees of fairness. Argue semantics all you want but there has to be a line drawn somewhere.
Everyone does need to hunt their own hunt but there is a point at which fair chase goes out the window. I agree 100% that there is a perceived fairness to others, but there is also a major element of fair chase to the animal that must be considered. To completely ignore that is, well ignorant. What kind of wildlife managers and conservationists would we be if we did that. Some of us do care very deeply about the animals we pursue and have enough respect for them to give them an opportunity for survival. It's not just some philosophical perceived level of fairness to the animal, there are in reality different degrees of fairness. Argue semantics all you want but there has to be a line drawn somewhere.
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We crossed the "line" years ago. Do any of you use game camera's? They tell you right where is/ was. You don't have to even go in the woods anymore. They send a pic to your phone. Do any of you fish? Do you have fish finder's on you boat? They tell you right where there are. Straight down. To the side. And even right in front of you. They call it video game fishing. Check out Forward facing sonar. Using a drone to find a wounded deer is perfectly ethical. Unless your hunting with a stickbow and wooden arrows from the ground then we have all crossed the "line".
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There's this option:
theHunter: Call of the Wild | Home Page
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callofthewild.thehunter.com
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BenG
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I agree, but there is still a line. It is debatable where the line falls legally and will also vary personally within the confines of the law, and in some cases outside. Right now it seems for most people and states the line has been drawn somewhere between cell cameras and drones. I'm sure there are a ton of people using cell cams that are adamantly opposed to drones. It's not a logic I understand. I don't see using any electronic device to give real time information on an animal as fair chase.
So yeah I agree we've crossed the line, but to me that doesn't mean we throw everything out the window and say anything goes.
Depends on the proximity of the cell cam for me personally. Of the 2 primary properties I hunt, one is a little over 2 hours and the other is right at 3 hours from the house. A cell cams would be really handy for me for intel but not same day hunting. I dont have any though. I have 4 regular cams and 3 are in my clothes duffle, lol. For me the fair chase line gets drawn largely by same day applicable tech. Like the Alaska rule about hunting on day of flight. Using a cell cam in close enough proximity to capitalize on same day I think crosses the line of fair chase somewhat. Drones would definitely afford the opportunity to cross that line. While it may be viable to use them for recovery, I see the misuse being equal or much greater in potential application.
As for the discussion about is it fair chase if the deer dont get a say, my answer is yes because we were given dominion over them as a source of food. With that responsibility, we are also charged with being good stewards. Adhering to a fair chase standard, I feel, is a part of being a good steward of wild critters.
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BenG
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Not to sidetrack too far, but man what a powerful tool. It was really cool to see it in action. I can't help but think of the profound impact this technology must have in search and rescue. Even locally, just a few years ago I can think of a life that could probably have been saved if this technology were available/affordable at the time.
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The "line" is constantly moving and always will. It also varies w/ different people so I wouldn't say "most people". While it's slightly before my time, When compounds 1st came out, there was an uproar from the old timers. Most of the bowhunters were against them then. Now We have 90% let-off bows going 350 fps. We put sliding sight's w/ fiber optic pins on our bows, dampening stabilizers, drop away rests etc on them. Our arrows have lighted nocks. We carry laser range finders. Guys put Ozone machines in trees. We have camo made out activated charcoal so they can't wind us. We also have phones in our pockets that have apps to tell us when to hunt, where to hunt.. Then we have this thing called the Internet. A guy can learn everything he needs to be successful just browsing various forums and Youtube. What took a hunter a lifetime in the woods to learn can now be learned online. For years, I was adamantly opposed to game camera's. Now I just view them as just another tool. I've never even used one but don't judge a guy that does. A drone used for recovery is just another tool. If a guys wants to shell out $450 to find "his" deer then so be it. I will say that using a drone to hunt a deer is WAY over the "line" where ever that is.
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Man Captures Rare Drone Footage of a Moose Dropping its Antlers, Then Collects the Sheds
A Canadian shed hunter filmed the big bull moose dropping both of its massive antlers, then he snowshoed in to retrieve the sheds.
www.fieldandstream.com
Man Captures Rare Drone Footage of a Moose Dropping its Antlers, Then Collects the Sheds
A Canadian shed hunter filmed the big bull moose dropping both of its massive antlers, then he snowshoed in to retrieve the sheds.
Amazing luck to catch that on video - really cool - thanks for sharing!
Zhillian1
New Member
At more than $400 to get them to show up at all and another $100 for a recovery, I would say only the truly compassionate or someone convinced they hit a trophy buck would endure the expense, but I agree that more recoveries are a good thing.
The harvest reports are another story. I see that a hunting club would want to know what populations look like and what the buck doe ratios are, it would truly give an unfair advantage knowing where they are bedding without needing to put boots on the ground. I would hope this would at least be post season research, but probably not...
I’ve read & thought that’s cold that there’s laws on the books. Hunter harassment is fairly common in one of the bigger public pieces near me. I’m wondering how you would enforce it. I’m actively hunting & getting buzzed by a drone, how do I report it & the offender is who knows where……?
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Lol. I don't know. It's a crime to shoot one down. I guess call it in and if they've nothing better to do the agents drive around with an eye out and maybe log nearby parked cars.
Airspace is going to be a sticky issue.
Zhillian1
New Member
I know very little about the subject, but I think it could be as easy as with the business being required to self-report to wildlife Management offices in the area that they'll be doing a recovery during hunting hours. Much like regulations and laws don't necessarily prevent poaching, it certainly would mitigate it from becoming a major nuisance.
This way if a hunter reports a drone that hasn't been reported, wildlife Management could assume it's a high tech poaching activity and fine the operator and impound the drone. Typically as I understand it, the drones are usually 300' to 500' up, so hearing them to to point of blowing a hunt or to be considered harassment shouldn't be a thing until they think they have identified the target deer. That would also likely reduce the perception of harassment.
The drones they are using aren't your Walmart specials. As I understand it, they cost upwards of 10,000 to $20,000. Anyone flying a machine like that probably aren't willing to lose them so easily. I'm not necessarily advocating for this to be a thing, But it's going to be, so maybe we should encourage wildlife management to get in front of it.
Back in the day, they only hunted with muskets, and now we are allowed to hunt with crossbows and AR-15s lol. From what I can tell, the original saddle hunters used wooden planks. The sport evolves and utilizes technology. I hope the bloodhound does become a novelty, like the horse and buggy, but these times are a changing...
This way if a hunter reports a drone that hasn't been reported, wildlife Management could assume it's a high tech poaching activity and fine the operator and impound the drone. Typically as I understand it, the drones are usually 300' to 500' up, so hearing them to to point of blowing a hunt or to be considered harassment shouldn't be a thing until they think they have identified the target deer. That would also likely reduce the perception of harassment.
The drones they are using aren't your Walmart specials. As I understand it, they cost upwards of 10,000 to $20,000. Anyone flying a machine like that probably aren't willing to lose them so easily. I'm not necessarily advocating for this to be a thing, But it's going to be, so maybe we should encourage wildlife management to get in front of it.
Back in the day, they only hunted with muskets, and now we are allowed to hunt with crossbows and AR-15s lol. From what I can tell, the original saddle hunters used wooden planks. The sport evolves and utilizes technology. I hope the bloodhound does become a novelty, like the horse and buggy, but these times are a changing...
I’m not gunna lie, I was initially like “nah” but hen I read the title of this thread and watched the first video, but I had a hard time nailing down why I felt like it was a bad thing. Now, after watching over a dozen of his videos and seeing his own perspective on the situation, I’m not entirely sure I think this is bad at all. It seems like it’s all on the hunter and o make the ethical choices after drone man dun done his job. And if we’re always harping on the importance of finding every deer we shoot, we can’t sit there and poo poo the effectiveness of this type of tracking. Yes it absolutely could be used nefariously, but the thing about “could” and “might” is that they’re probably, definitely, already doing it. So you can’t throw the baby who seems to follow all the rules out with the bath water just because it wasn’t the right temperature for your bathing tastes.
Honestly though, it was THIS video what got me kinda in his corner:
Drone Finds Tracking Dog
There is literally NOTHING bad that can be said about using this tech to find a man’s dawg. Why should it be all that worse to find a man’s deer?
Honestly though, it was THIS video what got me kinda in his corner:
Drone Finds Tracking Dog
There is literally NOTHING bad that can be said about using this tech to find a man’s dawg. Why should it be all that worse to find a man’s deer?
Yeah if they’re running it from a car but a lot of these places we hunt are right in the suburbs they could launch from their deck & go poking around. I don’t think the ppl that would be messing with hunters where I’m at are using the high tech that that dude has probably small cheaper models. This is all purely hypothetical, I’m sure it’s happened somewhere but we get some folks that wait in the parking areas & follow you in flipping out, I’ve had it a few times I just take them through a bunch of briars until they give up….. worked both times. Another time a lady had a megaphone on the fire road & bumped deer past me & a buddy it was awesome.
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We’ve had slit tires.
I don’t have the answer here. I think that privacy and airspace issues are front of the line.
Where does private land end and public airspace begin?
Good article from Scientific American on the jurisdictional conflicts between private land and public airspace: who owns the air 400 ft above your house? On the evening of July 26th, in Bullitt County, Ky., William Merideth’s daughter came in from the backyard and told her father that she’d just...
diydrones.com
Do you own the airspace above your property?
Did you assume you own the airspace above your property as a landowner? Learn about air rights and find out how far above your property you actually own.
www.landsearch.com
where it stands:
Airspace 101 – Rules of the Sky | Federal Aviation Administration
FAA rules apply to the entire National Airspace System -- there is no such thing as "unregulated" airspace. Drone operators should be familiar with the difference between controlled and uncontrolled airspace, and where you can legally fly. Controlled airspace is found around some airports and at...
www.faa.gov
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Expensive too, $450, + travel, + $100 of the deer is found.