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Getting nerdy with the maps

kyler1945 said:
I think 25 years of hunting experience might have something to do with how much impact internet scouting will have on your hunting success.

I'm not downplaying the value of internet scouting, or disparaging anyone who does it. I do it. I'm simply trying to help a new hunter build a foundation, plus have fun.
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Scouting is often more fun that hunting.
 
raisins said:
True. I also have a grad degree with research focus of spatial analysis of ecosystems, which helps.
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Haha, you're making my point even more cleanly for me with that new info!

Also, you should have a side gig consulting folks on where to hunt. I'd pay you a few hundred bucks to analyze some things with me. Your training layered on top of local experience could unlock some serious potential for folks. "Raisin' Whitetails" - if you use the name I expect a free consultation...
 
@raisins which resources would you point to that would assist with identifying spring seeps in hill/mountain/ side hill terrain? I can usually identify drainages and draws no problem with or without appreciable water based on contours but what takes a long time to identify are areas on hillsides that have some wetness to them. The larger ones show as marshland on typical topos but I’m looking for the smaller ones that are manageable enough to be able to shoot within bow range. In other words, I don’t want to have to foot scout every possible draw/drainage on a given property. There can be aplenty as you probably know.
 
I see value in both. If you were limited to one or the other then boots on the ground will benefit you more, especially starting out. You need to learn what deer sign looks like where you hunt and get a feel for the woods. Once you develop that base, you can build off it. You can then take what you have seen on the ground and look at it on maps and you will begin to have those Ah Ha moments when you see similar features elsewhere. You want to get enough experience that you start to see patterns, both in the woods and on a screen.

I love to be in the woods, and I love finding and looking at tracks, rubs, scrapes, etc. but I also like pouring over maps at home when it is just too hot to be in the woods or I don't have time to drive out there. I've also been asked by friends going out of state to pick some spots out for them in places I have never been, and they reported back that the spots were great and had really good buck sign. That's fun.
 
woodsdog2 said:
@raisins which resources would you point to that would assist with identifying spring seeps in hill/mountain/ side hill terrain? I can usually identify drainages and draws no problem with or without appreciable water based on contours but what takes a long time to identify are areas on hillsides that have some wetness to them. The larger ones show as marshland on typical topos but I’m looking for the smaller ones that are manageable enough to be able to shoot within bow range. In other words, I don’t want to have to foot scout every possible draw/drainage on a given property. There can be aplenty as you probably know.
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For small surface flows this is what I would do:

I would try to get a map of flow accumulation (aka upslope contributing area) for each grid cell in a map.

You can make this with an ESRI license. You input into the flow accumulation tool (see here).

An overview of the Hydrology toolset—ArcGIS Pro | Documentation

ArcGIS geoprocessing toolset containing tools that model the flow of water across a surface.
pro.arcgis.com pro.arcgis.com

an elevation map that is grid cells (the elevation of each cell is assigned and it makes a nice color map). It then tells you (for each cell) based upon elevation and angle (aspect) of each cell how may cells above it would have their water flow through that cell if poured (and none absorbed).

Imagine the starting condition is a marble in the center of each cell of an elevation map. You play a game where you have move 1, 2, 3, etc and each move all the marbles move how they would roll on that map under gravity (if you could have it as a 3D model with marbles on it). Cells that would have more marbles passthrough it in this example tend to be wetter.

This is so accurate that you can find streams on a map using this technique that are not shown on topo or a landcover map. It would pick up wet spots that your eye wouldn't identify on a map because it looks at the whole maps contribution and raster/cell elevation data is often higher resolution than topos (although some comes from topos).

For actual eruption of groundwater from a hillside, I would be stumped/have to think about it more.

I just found this data set for at least a part of California (would have to plot the extent).

Seeps and Springs - ACE [ds2731] GIS Dataset

map.dfg.ca.gov

But I doubt it would include the small areas.


Perhaps there is USGS maps that have maps that show depth to groundwater/water table. You could then lay an elevation map over it to so if the hillside cuts into the aquifer.

Someone could probably "train" a classifying algorithm

(how they do these off of satellite data

Land Use Land Cover Modeling | U.S. Geological Survey

www.usgs.gov www.usgs.gov

)

to look for smallish open areas with a certain reflection of colors that are associated with seeps. You would train this by going out and taking the coordinates of several seeps and several non-seeps and then artificial intelligence does the rest.

That would be a several year long project though.

Let me think about it some more.

When in person, what characteristics do your seeps have that differentiate from the surrounding area (other than the soil is wet)? In WV, it is wet soil and a change in vegetation that makes it more open and different vegetation types. Too bad there isn't usually significant erosion, you might be able to pick that up on Lidar.
 
All good information and questions. I'll have to process some of them before I shoot off an answer. I appreciate you looking into these things.
 
kyler1945 said:
Haha, you're making my point even more cleanly for me with that new info!

Also, you should have a side gig consulting folks on where to hunt. I'd pay you a few hundred bucks to analyze some things with me. Your training layered on top of local experience could unlock some serious potential for folks. "Raisin' Whitetails" - if you use the name I expect a free consultation...
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yeah, starting with boots on the ground is probably a good idea

but there's a feedback

use onx to plot where you went and what you found on the ground

then look at that on your screen

try to figure out from a landscape perspective why you saw on the ground what you did

the two work together, feeding each other info, very well
 
raisins said:
yeah, starting with boots on the ground is probably a good idea

but there's a feedback

use onx to plot where you went and what you found on the ground

then look at that on your screen

try to figure out from a landscape perspective why you saw on the ground what you did

the two work together, feeding each other info, very well
Click to expand...

Assuming the code is written properly. And the appropriate amount of cognitive horsepower is devoted to the effort. Then yes, you’re right.

I don’t make those assumptions with the feller who’s hunted 5 years and hasn’t killed a deer. I would with a formally trained pattern maker/seeker.

You can make the same connections between walked dirt/saw deer. And only use the map for storage of said information. Interpreting the map is taking on a whole second parallel path of writing code.
 
kyler1945 said:
Assuming the code is written properly. And the appropriate amount of cognitive horsepower is devoted to the effort. Then yes, you’re right.

I don’t make those assumptions with the feller who’s hunted 5 years and hasn’t killed a deer. I would with a formally trained pattern maker/seeker.

You can make the same connections between walked dirt/saw deer. And only use the map for storage of said information. Interpreting the map is taking on a whole second parallel path of writing code.
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yeah, you could write the code....actual code.....i was thinking more of mental code....seeing what pops out to you

you're right that humans want to see patterns where there are none

all the time i think i might see a small deer path....but i soon realize i'm just connecting random disturbed pieces of ground (or where snow melted) where i want to see a path

en.wikipedia.org

Pareidolia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
woodsdog2 said:
@raisins which resources would you point to that would assist with identifying spring seeps in hill/mountain/ side hill terrain? I can usually identify drainages and draws no problem with or without appreciable water based on contours but what takes a long time to identify are areas on hillsides that have some wetness to them. The larger ones show as marshland on typical topos but I’m looking for the smaller ones that are manageable enough to be able to shoot within bow range. In other words, I don’t want to have to foot scout every possible draw/drainage on a given property. There can be aplenty as you probably know.
Click to expand...
I know this wasn't directed at me, but my approach would be to synthesize topo features with imagery, possible hyperspectral (visible + UV + near IR) imagery. I'd look for more reflective ("greener") or healthier vegetation in areas with hillside slope. If I had a Digital Elevation Module with sufficiently detailed data table I'd select tiles with a certain slope range, and look at the imagery around there. DEMs are generally huge (30+ GB) files so working with them with consumer-grade computers might be a bit of a slog.

Certain professionals trying to locate illegal agriculture might not search for the crops themselves, but rather the things associated with the crops: piping, blue tarps, downstream plant growth or death associated with fertilizer or herbicide, etc. You can apply the same principles to locate water sources.
 
I am using QGIS because making a map on google earth is a pain for a garmin gps. There is a tool for making custom maps in QGIS for garmin. Plus I like learning new stuff about GIS.
 
wmahunterfl said:
I am using QGIS because making a map on google earth is a pain for a garmin gps. There is a tool for making custom maps in QGIS for garmin. Plus I like learning new stuff about GIS.
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I downloaded qGIS on a laptop a few years ago but didn't get a chance to play with it much. I used to use ArcMap in an old job and got pretty proficient in it, but would occasionally have to use Google Earth for stuff... maybe converting Garmin Etrex files to .kmz and import from there to ArcMap? I don't remember. I'll have to take another look at qGIS because I use Garmin handhelds. Thanks!
 
Anyone know how to Look at older images on the new version of GE? On my old computer, GE had a tool bar across the top , I could click on the counter clock wise arrow and look back at older pics. This newer version of GE on mt new computer doesn't have it or at least I can't seem to find it. There is a tool bar to the left.
 
Tossing in another vote for CalTopo. It's so good that I'm starting to get skeptical as to why it's free.

If you take just a little bit of time to access your county's GIS tax map, you can use that to cross reference against CalTopo and have many of the same features as OnX without paying for it. I take screen shots of county topo maps and email them to my phone, so that I can access them while out scouting and compare the CalTopo map with property lines. It's not perfect, but it gives me an idea of when I'm approaching a property line, and that's all I really need right now.
 
cville_bowhunter said:
Tossing in another vote for CalTopo. It's so good that I'm starting to get skeptical as to why it's free.

If you take just a little bit of time to access your county's GIS tax map, you can use that to cross reference against CalTopo and have many of the same features as OnX without paying for it. I take screen shots of county topo maps and email them to my phone, so that I can access them while out scouting and compare the CalTopo map with property lines. It's not perfect, but it gives me an idea of when I'm approaching a property line, and that's all I really need right now.
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It's always a good idea to refer to the county GIS map. Even that isn't the system of record, the system of record is the archive of survey data. The GIS page just visualizes it, with pretty good (but not absolute) accuracy.

I know a county surveyor and have heard endless complaints related to OnX and similar. "But, but, OnX says this is public land!" "Yes, it was until the County did a land swap this summer and now it's private land; just because OnX hasn't updated their data doesn't mean you weren't trespassing. Also, they drew their line a couple of yards west of the actual datum line, which means the private landowner was absolutely within his rights to take down the stand you put up on his land; the survey is right and your GPS is wrong."
 
1simplemann said:
Anyone know how to Look at older images on the new version of GE? On my old computer, GE had a tool bar across the top , I could click on the counter clock wise arrow and look back at older pics. This newer version of GE on mt new computer doesn't have it or at least I can't seem to find it. There is a tool bar to the left.
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Calling all nerds! I need some help. Thanks in advance.
 
I would recommend Treeline Pursuits online class. It is an extensive e scouting class that teaches you how to use and combine all these tools. Overlay different systems and how to get the most out of the program.
 
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