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Give me more info on SRT

MattMan81 said:
Well I jumped the gun and i grabbed a lifeguard that was on sale. And can't return climbing gear. So is a madrock Lifeguard any use as a back up in a SRT or should I try to sell it?
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MattMan, what did you purchase the lifeguard for? Mechanical belays are not typically used for backing up part of your system.

The lifeguard has a spring and operates similar to a grigri. Most have been recommending the Safeguard over both of those because of the springless design. Basically grabs easier and more consistently.

In either case they are often used on a short bridge while ascending the rope. See Jamie Cline’s video above (post #7).


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climbingblogger.com

GriGri vs ATC: Which One Should You Be Using? • Climbing Blogger

Which is better for belaying: the GriGri or the ATC? In this article we'll dive deep in the pro's and cons of the GriGri vs ATC.
climbingblogger.com climbingblogger.com

This is pretty thorough. A good article. Just make sure you know how to use your equipment.
I feel confident with a safeguard if used correctly.
I did not notice that a lifeguard was purchased
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Ontariofarmer said:
I back it up with an auto block. There is a risk in anything bad while climbing . If the handle broke off the device would lock. How likely is a broken handle? I have heard of one.
The companies must worry about litigation if they are prone to failure. Not arguing but I find it hard to fathom. Maybe you know of lots of failures ?


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I did have a Safeguard handle come off in my hand early in the season. Madrock customer service was great and they replaced the device. They also said it was the only report of a broken handle they had at that time. I was never any any danger, without the handle the Safeguard fails in the safe condition (locked up). I had several backup methods to get down and I ended up just one sticking down after the incident with no problems.

The best advice I can give from this is use the gear as it is intended but have backup plans ready in case a mechanical failure occurs. It is no different than never pointing a firearm at someone, safeties have been known to fail. Never fully trust anything life related not to let you down.

Edit: I'm still using a Safeguard to rappel.
 
boyne bowhunter said:
I did have a Safeguard handle come off in my hand early in the season. Madrock customer service was great and they replaced the device. They also said it was the only report of a broken handle they had at that time. I was never any any danger, without the handle the Safeguard fails in the safe condition (locked up). I had several backup methods to get down and I ended up just one sticking down after the incident with no problems.

The best advice I can give from this is use the gear as it is intended but have backup plans ready in case a mechanical failure occurs. It is no different than never pointing a firearm at someone, safeties have been known to fail. Never fully trust anything life related not to let you down.

Edit: I'm still using a Safeguard to rappel.
Click to expand...

This is the only case of failure I know of but maybe there are more


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weekender21 said:
MattMan, what did you purchase the lifeguard for? Mechanical belays are not typically used for backing up part of your system.

The lifeguard has a spring and operates similar to a grigri. Most have been recommending the Safeguard over both of those because of the springless design. Basically grabs easier and more consistently.

In either case they are often used on a short bridge while ascending the rope. See the video above.


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The Jamie Cline video he was using one. Saw one on sale and decided it was worth the pick up. Then read some more, had a sleepless night mad at my self for doing it. Tried to cancel the order but opps. To late. So landed at my door this afternoon. It does not seem like the safest option. So not gonna use it.
I am planning on taking a rock climbing class to learn my self some before I apply it. But was looking to slowly accumulate some stuff.
 
MattMan81 said:
The Jamie Cline video he was using one. Saw one on sale and decided it was worth the pick up. Then read some more, had a sleepless night mad at my self for doing it. Tried to cancel the order but opps. To late. So landed at my door this afternoon. It does not seem like the safest option. So not gonna use it.
I am planning on taking a rock climbing class to learn my self some before I apply it. But was looking to slowly accumulate some stuff.
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Good idea. My kids all climb and that is a great help


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weekender21 said:
An ATC and autoblock can be acquired for less than $20 and there is nothing mechanical that can break.


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True an atc is not mechanical.
I suppose it is the same reason some won’t use a rope man

I have now heard of a Kong ascender failure.

I will keep using a safeguard. I am comfortable with it


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Ontariofarmer said:
True an atc is not mechanical.
I suppose it is the same reason some won’t use a rope man

I have now heard of a Kong ascender failure.

I will keep using a safeguard. I am comfortable with it


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The ropeman ascender safety issue is a little different. It’s not fall rated and many use it as part of there system (tether) where you would really want fall rated gear.


In full disclosure I use a Madrock Safeguard all the time. It’s a key part of my SRT system (ascent). I just don’t use it for rappelling. I have used it a few times when I first started testing options but I just prefer to remove mechanical devices from my system when possible.


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MattMan81 said:
Well I jumped the gun and i grabbed a lifeguard that was on sale. And can't return climbing gear. So is a madrock Lifeguard any use as a back up in a SRT or should I try to sell it?
Click to expand...
I used a Gri Gri for many climbs and had zero trouble with it. A member here had a Lifeguard for sale so I bought it and used it for many climbs and also never had any trouble with it. The Safeguard went on sale and I bought one and have had zero trouble with it. I would use any of the three without hesitation. The devices are designed to lock up with a quick pull on the rope and they do just that whether they have a spring or not. If you try the Lifeguard I would be willing to bet you will be happy with it. I am not selling mine. It is my backup. Many people have mentioned if you unweight the Lifeguard, the spring pops it open. True. But a quick pull locks it again and it remains locked as long as tension is held on the rope. ATC's are far more dangerous, IMHO. I have used all three devices and am not just repeating what someone told someone on the internet.
Here I am up a tree with my Lifeguard when I shot my deer in October. It works just like @JCLINE84 shows in his video.
I add a sling from my ascender to my bridge for a backup. If my belay device fails, the ascender will catch me.

Here is one of my first SRT climbs last summer in the local park with my Gri Gri and only a rock climbing harness. It worked fine.
 
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Please forgive my ignorance, what does ATC stand for?

I just received a safeguard and have only used it at safe heights. I feel really confident but would like to have a non-mechanical backup.

I will be one sticking up, and rappel down.

I have never had any formal rappel classes, but have training on the military rappel device from work. Is a rappel class a necessity?


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Jed33 said:
Please forgive my ignorance, what does ATC stand for?

I just received a safeguard and have only used it at safe heights. I feel really confident but would like to have a non-mechanical backup.

I will be one sticking up, and rappel down.

I have never had any formal rappel classes, but have training on the military rappel device from work. Is a rappel class a necessity?


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ATC = Air Traffic Control. It’s just a funny name the climbing community gave to a class of rappelling devices.

I rappel exclusively with a Safeguard, but always have a figure 8 on my saddle as a backup.
 
mtsrunner said:
ATC = Air Traffic Control. It’s just a funny name the climbing community gave to a class of rappelling devices.

I rappel exclusively with a Safeguard, but always have a figure 8 on my saddle as a backup.
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I rappel with a Gri Gri but have a figure 8 attached to my rock climbing harness with a paracord loop so that it is impossible to drop and can still be used to descend without removing it from the paracord.



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mtsrunner said:
ATC = Air Traffic Control. It’s just a funny name the climbing community gave to a class of rappelling devices.

I rappel exclusively with a Safeguard, but always have a figure 8 on my saddle as a backup.
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Is the figure 8 just for descent back up?

I can use my stick as an emergency descent device if so.

I am looking for a redundant fail safe from falling. For example running a prussic or tying a figure 8 knot through the carabiner on my bridge?

Is this even a valid concern?


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Jed33 said:
Please forgive my ignorance, what does ATC stand for?

I just received a safeguard and have only used it at safe heights. I feel really confident but would like to have a non-mechanical backup.

I will be one sticking up, and rappel down.

I have never had any formal rappel classes, but have training on the military rappel device from work. Is a rappel class a necessity?


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Click to expand...

Jed,

There’s really no logical way to backup a mechanical belay device on rappel. If you don’t trust it then just use and ATC and autoblock, no moving parts. Why not use your trusted backup as your primary? If you’re one sticking up, a mechanical belay doesn’t offer you anything over and ATC. For SRT, that’s a different story. My MR Safeguard is one of my favorite pieces of gear when used to ascend.


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Jed33 said:
Is the figure 8 just for descent back up?

I can use my stick as an emergency descent device if so.

I am looking for a redundant fail safe from falling. For example running a prussic or tying a figure 8 knot through the carabiner on my bridge?

Is this even a valid concern?


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Click to expand...

Yes. Just an emergency descent device. We had a member whose handle on his Safeguard broke. I also carry two 48” climbing slings for self rescue.
I absolutely never anticipate having to use anything but the Safeguard, but I hunt alone, so I would be screwed if I didn’t have plan B and C if something went haywire.
 
weekender21 said:
Jed,

There’s really no logical way to backup a mechanical belay device on rappel. If you don’t trust it then just use and ATC and autoblock, no moving parts. Why not use your trusted backup as your primary? If you’re one sticking up, a mechanical belay doesn’t offer you anything over and ATC. For SRT, that’s a different story. My MR Safeguard is one of my favorite pieces of gear when used to ascend.


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Click to expand...
If you have a guide mode ATC you can use it in guide mode as a progress capture device for SRT.
 
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