Heavy arrow build

[BTaylor]

I get the lever and fulcrum hypothesis. Totally makes sense.

I think something else to consider is how quickly this whole process is happening. My arrow only needs to get 8-10 inches of penetration to get into the lungs on a broadside shot. Sure, I want a pass through, it's only a split second from impact to vitals. I'm not sure it's going to matter that much.

Another point.

I'm also diving head first into razor sharp Broadheads. I've always shot Broadheads right out of the package. Probably not the smartest move. I purchased an inexpensive 400/1000 stone and the Stay Sharp broadhead kit for fixed blades and replaceable blades. I've been practicing on old Slick Trick blades that have been shot at targets and animals. I'm starting to get the hang of it. My heads this year are going to be scary sharp. So if they do get pulled around inside the animal they're going to cause maximum damage in there.

I'm sticking with the heavier arrows for now since I already bought them lol. I very well may be trying something else in a few months. But what else am I gonna do? Not spend too much money on hunting gear? That seems silly

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Scary sharp is important. Something to keep in mind on this arrow build stuff though is every so many years there is a movement either to light or heavy and the masses seem to gravitate towards the extremes of the discussion. What gets lost a lot of the time is functioning of the entire system. I havent killed as much as some but I have killed enough with enough different setups to have formed one fairly definitive opinion on bow and arrow setups. Speed matters and weight matters and sharp matters and FOC matters but where is optimum? I think it falls in close proximity to arrow around 500 grains(485-515) shot from a bow that will push that arrow in the 265-285 fps range and has a real sharp broadhead out front with an FOC in the 14-16 range. That setup will be easy to tune and will blow through any critter in north america. The only decision then comes down to which head for a particular critter. Out side of really big hogs or moose, I would have complete confidence in running a standard spitfire or grim reaper through everything else. For moose or big hogs I would opt for COC head. Nothing wrong at all with going heavier or higher FOC, I just dont think it is at all needed and for some can make getting thier system truly dialed much more difficult.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Grizzlystik has a video of shooting different weight heads out of a bow shooting machine (@35 yards I think) and its quite surprising at the little difference there is in impact height.
The 315 gr head did drop a bit, but the other weight heads were all fairly close.
Ashby also has some interesting demos "shooting" soda straws. The heaviest ones have better cast.

 

[PJC]

Scary sharp is important. Something to keep in mind on this arrow build stuff though is every so many years there is a movement either to light or heavy and the masses seem to gravitate towards the extremes of the discussion. What gets lost a lot of the time is functioning of the entire system. I havent killed as much as some but I have killed enough with enough different setups to have formed one fairly definitive opinion on bow and arrow setups. Speed matters and weight matters and sharp matters and FOC matters but where is optimum? I think it falls in close proximity to arrow around 500 grains(485-515) shot from a bow that will push that arrow in the 265-285 fps range and has a real sharp broadhead out front with an FOC in the 14-16 range. That setup will be easy to tune and will blow through any critter in north america. The only decision then comes down to which head for a particular critter. Out side of really big hogs or moose, I would have complete confidence in running a standard spitfire or grim reaper through everything else. For moose or big hogs I would opt for COC head. Nothing wrong at all with going heavier or higher FOC, I just dont think it is at all needed and for some can make getting thier system truly dialed much more difficult.

Ashby’s findings place the parameters for the biggest changes in performance at 550gr (if I remember correctly) and 19% FOC
I don’t remember arrow speed being a part of the equation.


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[Allegheny Tom]

Ashby’s findings place the parameters for the biggest slicker in performance at 550gr (if I remember correctly) and 19% FOC
I don’t remember arrow speed being a part of the equation.


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650gr.

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[BTaylor]

Ashby’s findings place the parameters for the biggest slicker in performance at 550gr (if I remember correctly) and 19% FOC
I don’t remember arrow speed being a part of the equation.


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My observations re: arrow speed have to do with how easily you can tune the bow. The more you push the speed up the more finicky most bows seem to be, esp. when you are running a fixed head. It's part of the system. I think it is an incomplete discussion to only talk about the arrow or arrow/head combination.

 

[cspot]

I am surprised so many on here want to go to a heavier arrow. Seems everyone here wants to shave ounces and a heavier arrow only adds ounces.

 

[skell]

I am surprised so many on here want to go to a heavier arrow. Seems everyone here wants to shave ounces and a heavier arrow only adds ounces.

We're a complex bunch

 

[heretic]

I am surprised so many on here want to go to a heavier arrow. Seems everyone here wants to shave ounces and a heavier arrow only adds ounces.

... I have no rebuttal.

 

[g2outdoors]

I am surprised so many on here want to go to a heavier arrow. Seems everyone here wants to shave ounces and a heavier arrow only adds ounces.

That's an awesome perspective

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[g2outdoors]

Scary sharp is important. Something to keep in mind on this arrow build stuff though is every so many years there is a movement either to light or heavy and the masses seem to gravitate towards the extremes of the discussion. What gets lost a lot of the time is functioning of the entire system. I havent killed as much as some but I have killed enough with enough different setups to have formed one fairly definitive opinion on bow and arrow setups. Speed matters and weight matters and sharp matters and FOC matters but where is optimum? I think it falls in close proximity to arrow around 500 grains(485-515) shot from a bow that will push that arrow in the 265-285 fps range and has a real sharp broadhead out front with an FOC in the 14-16 range. That setup will be easy to tune and will blow through any critter in north america. The only decision then comes down to which head for a particular critter. Out side of really big hogs or moose, I would have complete confidence in running a standard spitfire or grim reaper through everything else. For moose or big hogs I would opt for COC head. Nothing wrong at all with going heavier or higher FOC, I just dont think it is at all needed and for some can make getting thier system truly dialed much more difficult.

I could not agree more with this post. Well said.

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[PJC]

650gr.

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Thanks. You’re right.


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[Allegheny Tom]

Scary sharp is important.....

Ashby spoke about this.
The cut of a finely polished, super sharp edge, produces less of the chemical (called fibrinogen, I think he called it) initiates the clotting cascade slower than a cut from a jagged or dull edge.
In other words, a clean cut clots slower, just like a cut from shaving. This might not make a huge difference in a center punch, double lung hit, but the whole point of this thread is about when things go wrong. Our broadhead may only nick an artery. The cut made by scary sharp head will bleed longer than a cut from a file-sharpened head.
I was told a long time ago that file sharpened heads kept a more durable edge during penetration...that was incorrect.


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[PJC]

Ashby spoke about this.
The cut of a finely polished, super sharp edge, produces less of the chemical (called fibrinogen, I think he called it) initiates the clotting cascade slower than a cut from a jagged or dull edge.
In other words, a clean cut clots slower, just like a cut from shaving. This might not make a huge difference in a center punch, double lung hit, but the whole point of this thread is about when things go wrong. Our broadhead may only nick an artery. The cut made by scary sharp head will bleed longer than a cut from a file-sharpened head.
I was told a long time ago that file sharpened heads kept a more durable edge during penetration...that was incorrect.


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Yup, he likened it to a caulk buildup on the cutting edge. The broadhead goes through a lot of stuff before it gets to the vitals, especially on his hogs.


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[michigandrake]

I was told a long time ago that file sharpened heads kept a more durable edge during penetration...that was incorrect.

I have always heard the Fred Bear liked the rougher, wire edge of a filed broadhead vs a perfect edge. Legend in my part of Michigan anyways.

 

[MFD205]

I have always heard the Fred Bear liked the rougher, wire edge of a filed broadhead vs a perfect edge. Legend in my part of Michigan anyways.

A legend anywhere.

 

[Wmihunter]

I could not agree more with this post. Well said.

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I am leaning toward a 500 grain 15% foc with single bevel coc running at 247fps


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[Buckeye Bowhunter]

Headed to saddlepalooza 2020 now. If by some miracle I get a shot at a piggy, I’m sending my 395 grain twizzler at the smallest one I see.


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[weekender21]

Grizzlystik has a video of shooting different weight heads out of a bow shooting machine (@35 yards I think) and its quite surprising at the little difference there is in impact height.
The 315 gr head did drop a bit, but the other weight heads were all fairly close.
Ashby also has some interesting demos "shooting" soda straws. The heaviest ones have better cast.

It takes a significant increase in arrow weight to change your POI under 40 yards. I was doing a little testing and shooting 530 and 580 grain arrows last week. Exactly the same POI at 20 and 30 and surprisingly the 580's were less than 6 inches low at 40.

I was shooting a 580 and 605 grain arrow at 60 yards this week. Both arrows were landing in the same 4" circle at that distance, 25 grains makes very little difference in POI.

 

[weekender21]

Headed to saddlepalooza 2020 now. If by some miracle I get a shot at a piggy, I’m sending my 395 grain twizzler at the smallest one I see.


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You'll likely have less trouble than you'd be led to believe. I shot my biggest Hawaii boar with a 400 grain VAP and slick trick, that arrow was stuck deep in the ground after the pass through. I generally used "heavier" arrows but ALL of the hogs I've killed have been shot with less than 550 grains. I'd never go as far as recommending a mechanical head for hog hunting (or anything other than turkeys for that matter) but they work just fine on average size hogs.

 

[g2outdoors]

All great discussion. I'm sticking with my plan.

I've gotten some sharpening and arrow building tools. I'll have a 550-600 grain arrow depending on what broad head I decide to use. That head will be crazy sharp. My arrows will also be properly tuned to my bow and be flying like darts.

I've never put this kind of effort into my setup. I'm excited to see how it pans out on the first critter I shoot. Once I get everything in place, I'm going to shoot a hog in the swamp.