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Just don't trust it.

T

Tembo

New Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2022
Messages
26
Through an over abundance of caution, I've made my own saddle setup. I've looked at commercial saddles and not knocking any manufacturer have questioned some of the ways they are made, specifically buckles for the waist and leg straps. What I did is for me and I do not recommend anyone else doing the same. I know manufacturers are limited by manufacturing costs, material costs, legal recommendations, marketing departments and market competition among other things. As to the legal, I bought a certain saddle that had a bridge that was unadjustable and manufactured in such a way as it would have to be cut off to have an adjustable bridge ,thus voiding the warranty and releasing the company from any claim of liability. Is that a manufacturing suggestion by the legal dept? I don't know but the result is the same.
What I did was go with the redundancy of a climbing harness which is attached at height along with the saddle I made from 2 1/4 nylon web that is similar to half of an Anderson tree sling/ Eberhart saddle. The saddle is for sitting etc. only, the harness is for safety. The point of all this is while a commercial manufacturer is limited by competition because they have to economically produce the saddles I don't have that limitation. I can over build my setup in any way I see fit and make it exactly the way I want it, no 1 size fits all. Your thoughts on this will be appreciated.
 
I've made a few of my own "wraptor" saddles and the first 2 I do not trust at height due to my evolving skills at sewing. I trust #3. Would I sell one like it or loan it to a friend (or enemy, lol), nope. I think it is great to make your own saddle, but you really have to approach it from the standpoint that you are taking full responsibility for your own hide.

A commercial saddle has to fit a lot of the parameters you talked about. It has to be made economically yet to a certain standard of safety. The manufacturers heavily insure themselves against personal liability and have lawyers (directly or indirectly) making some of the decisions about what goes to market. Anything made by humans is capable of failure, commercial products included. Be careful. stay safe and have fun.
 
I think where I have come to stand on this is that regardless of the saddle being used, whether homemade or store bought, my safety is going to be predicated by my rope management. The risk I assume is more heavily weighted in the slack I allow in my system than most anything else. The greatest risk imo is main rope failure and if that happens, I am going to be a yard dart. Doesnt matter if I was wearing a saddle or a full body harness.
 
NMS, I've looked at kevlar thread and dyneema thread also. I believe I can build redundancy and reinforcement into this to my hearts content. I think if I go slow, look at products from outside the hunting industry such as arborist, mt. climbing ,pole/lineman etc. industries I can end up with something that when I put it on to climb, I can forget about any questions as to soundness of the equipment and not have to worry about something made to a price point. Hunting from heights is a dangerous game no matter the type of stand, that should be understood before your feet ever leave the ground. That said, I think the saddle is the safest tree hunting system ever made but it can be made better and safer if its custom made.
 
BTaylor, Main rope failure, that is the thing I looked at as a weak point, In what I have in mind I will have a seat/bridge/tether,pusik as normal but will also be attached to the tree by the harness rope so if one fails I have backup. Also I won't have any buckles in the waist strap or leg straps. There will be continuous connectivity through the whole system. I don't trust mechanical prusiks either so will go with rope, if I could figure a convenient way to replace the biners with rope I'd do that too. I just don't trust stuff that has rivets or springs to make it function.
 
Tembo said:
BTaylor, Main rope failure, that is the thing I looked at as a weak point, In what I have in mind I will have a seat/bridge/tether,pusik as normal but will also be attached to the tree by the harness rope so if one fails I have backup. Also I won't have any buckles in the waist strap or leg straps. There will be continuous connectivity through the whole system. I don't trust mechanical prusiks either so will go with rope, if I could figure a convenient way to replace the biners with rope I'd do that too. I just don't trust stuff that has rivets or springs to make it function.
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I use a RC harness and a fleece saddle I made so I get wanting to be in control of my own safety as much as possible. Climb rated carabiners are not something I worry about because the risk of failure is so remote it is not worth thinking about imo. Not going to knock redundancy at all but I also dont think a saddle has to be built like an abrams to be safe if we do our part to mitigate the risk that can lead to injury or worse. Hope you will share pics when you get it built.
 
I'll try to get pics without it looking like a pile of spaghetti, I'd like to get as many eyes on it as possible looking for mistakes, weaknesses and improvements.
Here's an example of redundancy. Say I use 1" tube webbing in making my climbing belt loops. I'll make a loop big enough to go from 1 side of the harness around the back to the other and then sew it in along the entire length around the back of the harness with the open loops on each side, 1 loop will have the climbing rope permanently attached and the other will be for the biner/prusik. We all know that that webbing is used all the time for bridges so it's strong enough on it's own but we're after bulletproof strength, to get that I'll make a loop of 3/16 amsteel to put inside the 1" web and sewn in with the web to the harness. No factory saddle will go to that extreme but since I'm making just one it's not a big deal,costs very little and gives linemans loops that will be practically unbreakable by any force a human body could withstand or exert. The point is to have equipment that you don't have to wonder about 25' off the ground and can focus completely on the mechanics of having everything hooked up right, knots right, carabiner gates screwed shut, climbing stick ropes secured etc.
 
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Tembo said:
I'll try to get pics without it looking like a pile of spaghetti, I'd like to get as many eyes on it as possible looking for mistakes, weaknesses and improvements.
Here's an example of redundancy. Say I use 1" tube webbing in making my climbing belt loops. I'll make a loop big enough to go from 1 side of the harness around the back to the other and then sew it in along the entire length around the back of the harness with the open loops on each side, 1 loop will have the climbing rope permanently attached and the other will be for the biner/prusik. We all know that that webbing is used all the time for bridges so it's strong enough on it's own but we're after bulletproof strength, to get that I'll make a loop of 3/16 amsteel to put inside the 1" web and sewn in with the web to the harness. No factory saddle will go to that extreme but since I'm making just one it's not a big deal,costs very little and gives linemans loops that will be practically unbreakable by any force a human body could withstand or exert. The point is to have equipment that you don't have to wonder about 25' off the ground and can focus completely on the mechanics of having everything hooked up right, knots right, carabiner gates screwed shut, climbing stick ropes secured etc.
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That sounds like an Abrams for sure. Just a thought since we are talking about a one off build. Have you considered building in break away sections into the attachment points similar to some of the full body treestand harnesses where the tether has break away sections to lessen the force of a fall. Saddles aren't normally designed or built for fall arrest but if you are doing a one build, I would think some aspects could be added like that. @Fl Canopy Stalker would be a better source of thoughts on that than I am. Mostly just thinking out loud.
 
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There's the saddle part tack sewn together, It's ready for final sewing. It will be attached loosely to the climbing harness and it's only function will be sitting etc., it will not be involved in preventing falls.
To get a better idea of this look at the video by DIY hunter on youtube from about 6 years ago. he made the same type thing but with a sitdrag seat.
 
Looks good so far. One question I have is about the rock harness. Does it have lineman's loops? You did not mention how you were doing to get up the tree but from what I read you plan to hook into the harness at height? I am guessing you meant with your main tether.

Statistically speaking most accidents happen when transitioning from a stand, platform etc. and are not generally due to material failure but human error. I would look at redundancy in attachment to the tree also. My personal opinion is some form of rope climbing is the safest. I've done DRT and like it, but I don't have a lot of trees that it is good for. I now use 2TC and I feel like it is a very safe way up and down for me. I'm on my main tether 100% of the time from the moment I leave the ground to when I set back onto the ground and there is minimum slack. Slack is the main danger to look out for.

As to the saddle build. Check out a thread called The Wraptor. There is a lot of good DIY info in there.
 
The linemans loops, I was thinking about that. On my hawk saddle the linemans loops are sewn from single layer nylon on the OUTSIDE of the saddle and then become the mollie loops around the back. If you look closely you will see that where the loop teminates it is sewn horizontally. I'm sure its ok, and it is easier and quicker to manufacture to do it that way and it it's loaded at an angle way from the tree, no problem, but if you have a vertical fall and the loops catch you the entire weight would hit the bottom leading stiches on each side, I don't want to think about that in a tree. So the plan is, in addition to the amsteel insert mentioned earlier the loop will be made from the 4400lbs 1" nylon tubing but the loops will INCIRCLE the harness on each side and then be sewn overlapping the full back section of the harness on the inside so in the event of a fall the pressure will go to a full waist encircling (cradling) looped nylon web,not a few stiches on the leading edge.

I'll use sticks and drilled tree bolts going up with the usual linemans rope. Once I get to height I'll tie off with the line from the front of the harness, it's 10mm dynamic so at that point I'm secured to the tree X2. Then I'll put the tether on, hook up the bridge from the saddle and remove the linemans rope and put it back in it's pouch. Also, I use long lines for both the tether and the harness rope so I have 2 options hanging along the tree in the event I get inverted in the harness and am upside down. Then I grab either of the two tag ends and overhand back upright.
Also, the seat loops are covered in black web tube as can be seen in the pic, the linemans loops will be light tan so as not to be confused for what hookup goes where.
 
Ok, there's the whole thing put together minus the suspenders which haven't come in yet. The lineman's belt is sewn on the inside and looped as described earlier. The lineman's rope is attached and in the right bag and the tether is in the left bag. The seat is loosely attached at each lineman's loop and is for sitting only,it plays no part in catching a fall. The rope in the front is the fall prevention line and it attaches first at height, and it will be used to attach when moving the lineman's over limbs.
I still have some more reinforcing sewing to do on the lineman's/harness but if y'all will look it over and criticize any weakness you see I would greatly appreciate it.
 
K I'll get momma to take some pics with me at a tree later. I'll post them tomorrow.
 
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