Madrock safe guard

[weekender21]

Is the safeguard safer than a ropeman for use on a tether is another good question. I havent been able to find what it is rated for. It does not have teeth like a ropeman so I would think there wouldnt be an issue with de-sheathing of rope during a fall.


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Using a Madrock Safeguard as a single point connection between your bridge and tether would be a miss-use of the product. Not hating on the Safeguard, it's one of my favorite pieces of equipment at the moment. Just be sure to thoroughly read the instructions that come with it. I'm not saying the Safeguard wouldn't work for your desired application but you're essentially asking if a spoon or fork cuts better when you know a knife is really the answer.

IF I decided to stay connected to my Safeguard after an SRT ascent, I'd do it by adding a friction hitch above the Safeguard and connect it to my carabiner or by tying an alpine butterfly at waist level and connecting it to another carabiner on a linemans loop. I can't picture a scenario where a Safeguard or a RM1 would fail with no slack in the tether BUT they are mechanical devices and there is no way I'm hanging from one without a backup of some sort.

Neither an ascender or a rescue belay device is designed for the application. Again, not saying it wouldn't work just be thorough in making the risk assessment for yourself. As an example, I bet there will be thousands of saddle hunters hanging from RM1's this year. That doesn't make it right for you as it sounds like you've decided against it.

On a side note, most of these climbing and rope manufacturers are extremely helpful and will gladly answer any questions you have. As awesome as this forum is, some questions are best reserved for those more qualified to answer.

 

[bj139]

Is the safeguard safer than a ropeman for use on a tether is another good question. I havent been able to find what it is rated for. It does not have teeth like a ropeman so I would think there wouldnt be an issue with de-sheathing of rope during a fall.


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No. Do not use this on a tether. It has no force holding it locked except the tension on the line. If you unweight it it is not locked. If you fell at that point it would have to catch you. Maybe I am being too cautious. I don't know. I am going hunting now and will try a few tests. I will report later. Someone mentioned a lighter spring holding it closed. That sounds like a good idea for what we are doing and not belaying. For my tether, I always use a prusik since it is so simple and has stood the test of time. For my climbing system I use the safeguard and leave it in place while I hunt as well as my toothed ascender and add my tether with prusik. I am being too cautious.

 

[weekender21]

Yeah good post. Bottom line, feel free to leave it on your rope but back it up with a Prusik.


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[Aeds151]

No. Do not use this on a tether. It has no force holding it locked except the tension on the line. If you unweight it it is not locked. If you fell at that point it would have to catch you. Maybe I am being too cautious. I don't know. I am going hunting now and will try a few tests. I will report later. Someone mentioned a lighter spring holding it closed. That sounds like a good idea for what we are doing and not belaying. For my tether, I always use a prusik since it is so simple and has stood the test of time. For my climbing system I use the safeguard and leave it in place while I hunt as well as my toothed ascender and add my tether with prusik. I am being too cautious.

I think you are thinking of the Lifeguard rather than Safeguard. I tried it out at about 10ft and it held fine. I see where folks say its a bit jumpy but I was able to rappel fine. The rappelling was really the only thing that worked well for me today of my new gear out of the oplux/beal jammy and safeguard/htp 9mm.


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[bj139]

I think you are thinking of the Lifeguard rather than Safeguard. I tried it out at about 10ft and it held fine. I see where folks say its a bit jumpy but I was able to rappel fine. The rappelling was really the only thing that worked well for me today of my new gear out of the oplux/beal jammy and safeguard/htp 9mm.


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I was talking about using it as a tether adjuster. It doesn't really lock on the rope. For rappelling, I used mine today hands off and it held while under tension. It should stop a fall faster than the Lifeguard. I also have the Lifeguard.

 

[Swingin' Free]

I hang by my Safeguard to attach my RO Squirrel Steps on the way up. Reach back up to grab the hand ascender and pull up a little bit and attach my tether to my bridge and stash the SRT gear in my pack til it's time to leave.

 

[mattsteg]

It,s in that "probably works but unwise" quadrant.

I was talking about using it as a tether adjuster. It doesn't really lock on the rope. For rappelling, I used mine today hands off and it held while under tension. It should stop a fall faster than the Lifeguard. I also have the Lifeguard.

 

[bj139]

It,s in that "probably works but unwise" quadrant.

Ok. Now I'm really confused as to what people are talking about.

 

[robstewart]

Whatever device you chose to use, tie a knot below it in your tether/rappel rope once you get to hunting height. I prefer to tie an overhand knot and hook the loop into my harness as well.

 

[Adamcincy]

No. Do not use this on a tether. It has no force holding it locked except the tension on the line. If you unweight it it is not locked. If you fell at that point it would have to catch you. Maybe I am being too cautious. I don't know. I am going hunting now and will try a few tests. I will report later. Someone mentioned a lighter spring holding it closed. That sounds like a good idea for what we are doing and not belaying. For my tether, I always use a prusik since it is so simple and has stood the test of time. For my climbing system I use the safeguard and leave it in place while I hunt as well as my toothed ascender and add my tether with prusik. I am being too cautious.

I’ve been using the safeguard for two seasons. It holds on my rope at all times. The lifeguard was sketchy and wouldn’t lock except under tension so I worried it might allow a little free fall if it didn’t set it (lifeguard may be great as a belay device but that’s not what I use it for). I use the safeguard for ascent and descent and often use my ascent line as my tether at height. I prefer it to a grigri. I don’t use an auto block and descent is smooth if you take the rope under your butt and feed the slack with the hand that isn’t controlling the device which is good rappelling technique.

 

[weekender21]

I’ve been using the safeguard for two seasons. It holds on my rope at all times. The lifeguard was sketchy and wouldn’t lock except under tension so I worried it might allow a little free fall if it didn’t set it (lifeguard may be great as a belay device but that’s not what I use it for). I use the safeguard for ascent and descent and often use my ascent line as my tether at height. I prefer it to a grigri. I don’t use an auto block and descent is smooth if you take the rope under your butt and feed the slack with the hand that isn’t controlling the device which is good rappelling technique.

Are you solely hanging from your Safeguard during the hunt or backing it up with something?


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[robstewart]

I see a lot of people confusing the Mad Rock Lifeguard with the Safeguard. The Safeguard is designed for the purpose of moving up and down a rope and stopping to work. Just like the ropeman or a prusik, you need to understand how it is going to behave and the dangers when standing on your platform at the top.

It's always advisable no matter what kind of system you use to put a "catastrophe knot" on the rope below your equipment. When hunting with a short tether I have a knot in the end with a loop that I connect into my harness. With a 30' rappel-tether I tie a quick overhand about knee height when I'm in my spot and connect the loop from that into my harness.

In addition, since my RCH and my "saddle" are two different pieces of equipment I'm connected to my tether above the RCH with the bridge from my saddle and a prusik. I transfer the weight into my saddle to get comfortable and then I'm set.

 

[Bwhana]

Are you solely hanging from your Safeguard during the hunt or backing it up with something?


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Curious how this would be any different than using a Ropeman on a tether as so many are doing. A simple knot below the device would keep it from moving if tension on the tether is released when you stand up too, but mine has never moved. I have used my Safeguard several times now in the woods on my tether with my fleece saddle, but have the Wraith connected to a prusik as backup, just because it is fleece, so I have not used it stand alone, but would with a commercial saddle.

 

[Adamcincy]

Are you solely hanging from your Safeguard during the hunt or backing it up with something?
Yes I solely hang from the safeguard. I feel very safe with it. When I used a grigri I would put a knot under it as it wouldn’t always hold tight if I let tension off. The safeguard keeps tension on itself even if I unweight it.

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[weekender21]

I’m familiar with the safeguard and use mine often for ascent with SRT. Could be wrong but I could have sworn the booklet that came with the Safeguard says to keep a hand on the “belay” or tag at all times. I’ll have to check when I get home in a few weeks.

It holds fine and I know the springless versions are by design safer than those with a spring but I always tie an alpine butterfly or overhand and connect my tag end to a carabiner when using it hands free.


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[robstewart]

I’m familiar with the safeguard and use mine often for ascent with SRT. Could be wrong but I could have sworn the booklet that came with the Safeguard says to keep a hand on the “belay” or tag at all times. I’ll have to check when I get home in a few weeks.

It holds fine and I know the springless versions are by design safer than those with a spring but I always usually tie an alpine butterfly or overhand and connect my tag end to a carabiner when using it hands free.


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No matter the device, if you’re going to be working at a point on the rope (ie hunting or taking of a stick) it’s always advisable to put a catastrophe knot in.

Do you bother with a third hand/autoblock when rappelling with the safeguard?


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[weekender21]

No matter the device, if you’re going to be working at a point on the rope (ie hunting or taking of a stick) it’s always advisable to put a catastrophe knot in.

Do you bother with a third hand/autoblock when rappelling with the safeguard?


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If you’re asking me, I don’t rappel with a Safeguard.


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[Aeds151]

Nothing but a Kong Triangle through a fig8, Safeguard, and a Carabiner on my tether/rappel line


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[mtsrunner]

Nothing but a Kong Triangle through a fig8, Safeguard, and a Carabiner on my tether/rappel line


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Do you run the rappel line under your butt to help control the descent?

 

[robstewart]

If you’re asking me, I don’t rappel with a Safeguard.


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That’s one of the things I’m looking forward to when mine shows up. I’d rather not transition from an SRT to a rappel device at the end of the night. Less gear to carry too.