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Madrock Safeguard Concern

bpz89

bpz89

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Messages
263
I’m visiting the one stick method again. I tried it back when the craze first started and backed out do to lack of trust in the Madrock while setting the stick(while free hanging). I looked up a few times after rappelling a short distance and stopping to take my stick off the tree and during that “free hang” the madrock was definitely “slipping” not hold me completely locked. It would allow about 1/4-1/2” of rope back through (the break side) while I was hanging on it. That rope was HTP 11mm. After that experience I posted here and a few chimed in on ways to “back up” the madrock or to try canyon elite 9mm (which I have now).

Even the Cayon elite 9mm I am still seeing and watching this madrock slide ever so slightly but continuously as I am “free hanging” to move or retrieve the stick. I suspect and believe it will not completely give way but…. It’s an uneasy feeling.

Has anyone experienced or saw this that I am talking about?


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I’ve never noticed but I’ve also never stared at it either. I use 8 mm oplux and certainly hasn’t happened enough to be noticeable.


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When you say continuously, you’re indicating the device is allowing line to continuously feed through the device and not act as a braking mechanism? If so, then no I haven’t and I would submit something is faulty with your device.
Now if you’re indicating once you release the brake a small amount of line, 1/4” let’s say, “feeds” through the device then yes I exp that but that’s line stretch - core and sheath stretching a bit and the line settling down.
 
Exhumis said:
When you say continuously, you’re indicating the device is allowing line to continuously feed through the device and not act as a braking mechanism? If so, then no I haven’t and I would submit something is faulty with your device.
Now if you’re indicating once you release the brake a small amount of line, 1/4” let’s say, “feeds” through the device then yes I exp that but that’s line stretch - core and sheath stretching a bit and the line settling down.
Click to expand...

Maybe this is what I am seeing ! I hope


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Sounds like that's just the distance it takes for the cam to enage. If you open the plate, put the rope in and pull on the load strand, you can see how the cam squeezes the rope.

Key thing is when you have loaded the device and it has engaged, if you let the brake strand go slack, will it start slipping again?

Madrock has excellent customer service too, contact them if you have any suspicion of having a faulty device.
 
Exhumis said:
When you say continuously, you’re indicating the device is allowing line to continuously feed through the device and not act as a braking mechanism? If so, then no I haven’t and I would submit something is faulty with your device.
Now if you’re indicating once you release the brake a small amount of line, 1/4” let’s say, “feeds” through the device then yes I exp that but that’s line stretch - core and sheath stretching a bit and the line settling down.
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These were my thoughts as I read the OP. I hang from my madrock from dark to dark without it slipping. It’s not like a Ropeman where it’s always locked. Once I load it with my weight, then it’s locked.
If you don’t have faith in it, you can always one stick using your friction hitch of choice with a tender. I switched to this method when I got the Doyle’s gear hoist and just climbed with my tether and didn’t pull out the rappel line till after the hunt.

Btw, I always have my rappel gear and hand ascender on my saddle at all times in case I loose my stick.
 
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I just started using a GriGri + and I stared at it. Once it locked it didn’t slip on new C-IV
 
arm breaker said:
This is why people need to truly understand their gear. I’m never going to rationalize using something like this when there are options out there actually designed for hands free usage.
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Can you name a few?


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arm breaker said:
Petzl Rig, Petzl ID, Kong Indy Evo Plus, Skylotec Spark, Camp Safety Giant, Edelrid Megawatt to name a few. Of course one could also adopt one of the JRB types of systems and only use friction hitches.
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100%. The Safeguard's standard is EN-15151-1:2012. Just because it's certified I guess people think they can use it however they want. However, it's only certified as an ABD. Your hand should be on the braking side at all times. People see hunting channels recommending it and think it's safe to hang off.
 
TreeRecon said:
100%. The Safeguard's standard is EN-15151-1:2012. Just because it's certified I guess people think they can use it however they want. However, it's only certified as an ABD. Your hand should be on the braking side at all times. People see hunting channels recommending it and think it's safe to hang off.
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It is quite fascinating how many folks have learned to use these devices from YouTube. I had done some rappelling years ago, but also count myself among those who have picked up a lot of this for hunting in a DIY fashion. What troubles me, however, is that so many folks don’t even make an effort to read the instructions, safety guides, and/or do little to zero research on the intended usage for devices like the heralded “Madrock.” Essentially, and en masse, the community has adopted this as a standard. I’m glad it’s working (outside specs nonetheless) so far and I hope people stay safe. I also hope folks really take care to learn a bit more about climbing.
 
If you find yourself upside down, twirling around 5ft from the tree trunk you gonna want that lever not a funny looking knot before you pass out. 1 dude's already died 6ft off the ground cause he couldn't unload 1 of those knots he thought would work, wouldn't of happened with a mechanical.
 
colin.704 said:
If you find yourself upside down, twirling around 5ft from the tree trunk you gonna want that lever not a funny looking knot before you pass out. 1 dude's already died 6ft off the ground cause he couldn't unload 1 of those knots he thought would work, wouldn't of happened with a mechanical.
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I think more importantly than that is to understand your system, how to use it, what the limitations are, and how to mitigate issues as they arise. There are inherent up and downsides to any method, I would just start with something completely in spec for the activity being attempted.
 
colin.704 said:
If you find yourself upside down, twirling around 5ft from the tree trunk you gonna want that lever not a funny looking knot before you pass out. 1 dude's already died 6ft off the ground cause he couldn't unload 1 of those knots he thought would work, wouldn't of happened with a mechanical.
Click to expand...
And this is exactly why you never see industrial use of hitch cords for climbing operations.

Mechanical devices also facilitate rescues. Every aerial rescue training I've ever been involved with has relied solely on mechanical devices on both the victim and rescuer.
 
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