Newbie question, does the order of materials matter in layering for temperature?

[HuumanCreed]

Teach me please.

If the question is not clear, I'll try to expand here. So when you layer your clothing for those colder all day sit, does it matter which go on first in regards to the material is use.

For example, I have a really thin puffy jacket that I like to wear underneath my camo hoodie. But I have been told that that is not an efficient layering system because a puffy layer work best as the most outer layer, that when they are compressed between other clothing they loses their insulation characteristic. Fleece work best as the middle layer, merino work best a base layer. Wind stopper fabric work best as outside layer.

Say if I dont buy into the Sitka 'system' and mix match my clothing, is there an actual method to make the clothing I have more efficient? Like instead of 5 layers, I can wear just 3 and still feel as warm. Or maybe instead of a whole coat, I only need a vest to reduce bulkiness in my arms for drawing the bow.

I'm asking because I have only been hunting in army issue pants. I would add thermal layers under it when needed. For those really cold days last year, I might be wearing 4 layers. Just wondering if there is a smarter way of doing it or I should just invest in a late season pant(or bib?) and be happy with it.

 

[KYHunter]

I think a very simple system works best for me. A good merino base to wick, a mid layer(vest) and outer layer. The specific pieces vary as to temp and wind. I have 3 different weight merinos that I will use depending on how cold it is. Typically a down vest if it’s really cold or just a regular vest if it’s cool. My outer layer is typically a pullover or zip-up fleece or parka. I sometimes will go merino, hoody, vest for mid-season afternoon hunts when I want a little extra insulation for the last hour of the hunt.

As far as a puffy as a mid-layer I think it works well as long as your outer layer is loose enough to allow the puffy piece to “puff”. If it’s too tight then it won’t insulate well.
I used to think that the more layers I got the warmer I would be and this is false. Typically 3 well-thought out layers Works the best

 

[Bowmanmike]

Great advice from @KYHunter .The moisture wicking base layer is the most important aspect to me. Long johns,a shirt and socks all need to wick moisture from your skin or you will get cold.
I like wool as middle layer as well.

 

[elk yinzer]

Yes and no. I think puffies can make a great mid layer but they do have downsides most significantly compression.

Specifically, with a puffy jacket as a mid layer the issue is that the insulator (down or lofted synthetics) gets compressed. Insulation works by "trapping" warm air. The insulating power can be drastically reduced if compressed. If you have a hammock you can test this effect and really clearly feel it. Or it can not be. It depends on the design/fit of both the puffy and whatever you are layering over top of it.

Fabrics like wool and fleece aren't as insulative but don't suffer from compression as badly. Wool and fleece generally make better active insulation also. The reason for that is the synthetic fabric used as the exterior of puffies is typically not breathable and not good at moderating body heat. But it doesn't make it wind proof which I'll get to later.

As a mid layer I tend to mix the two or base my decision on how likely I am to need any active insulation. No real hard and fast rules just kinda what I grab each day. I would say generally I prefer wool and fleece as more verstaile mid-layers but may grab a puffy if I am trying to be more ultralight and expect it to perform just fine.

I'm of the belief that the outer layer should always be wind-proof or at least highly wind resistant. If not, all the warm air you've trapped in your mid layer insulation is just getting blown away.

A lot is just experimenting what works for you and not abiding by the rules put out by gear junkies trying to win the internet.

Even cotton. Listen to a gear junkie and you'd think the plant itself should be extinct. I switched to mostly wearing synthetics and kept feeling gross and sticky in my fancy synthetic fishing shirts. Switched back to cotton largely for that purpose and realized even a much maligned fabric has it's upsides to me it just feels a lot better in hot weather.

 

[Exhumis]

Yup, order of layers absolutely matters. As you stated already, puffy jackets get their insulating properties from loft which allows them to trap air and insulate. Type of materials matters as well. Cotton base layers are just fine UNTIL YOU GET THEM WET and then they’ll kill you. This is because they don’t dry, they hold onto moisture which causes your body to lose heat in cold weather. Also I’m out weather they don’t allow perspiration to evaporate and you overheat. Polyprop which is what the military used to use is a synthetic material which works great but it stinks quickly and has the tendency to melt when exposed to heat which is counterproductive on a battlefield. Wool is amazing, retains warmth when wet however is bulky and itchy. Merino wool is the newest kid on the block for baselayers as it has the same properties as regular wool but isn’t itchy. The military uses fleece as their mid layers because it’s lightweight and still keeps you warm when wet. Most systems clothing these days has some kind of fleece and comes in different weights.
Your typical layer system would be a base layer, then an insulating layer and finally a rain or wind blocking external layer. Any manufacturers pieces are designed to work together but I don’t see why you couldn’t mix and match. I worn minus33 base layers, a Scentlok mid layer and a cabelas external layer for the longest time and it worked fine.
When you’re building your layering system just keep in mind sweat is the enemy. Sweating is pretty hard not to do but you need a way to get it away from your skin so it can evaporate.
All of my external layers are wind blocking. If you can block the wind you’ll stay much warmer and can cut down on your bulk.

 

[HuumanCreed]

Yes and no. I think puffies can make a great mid layer but they do have downsides most significantly compression.

Specifically, with a puffy jacket as a mid layer the issue is that the insulator (down or lofted synthetics) gets compressed. Insulation works by "trapping" warm air. The insulating power can be drastically reduced if compressed. If you have a hammock you can test this effect and really clearly feel it. Or it can not be. It depends on the design/fit of both the puffy and whatever you are layering over top of it.

Fabrics like wool and fleece aren't as insulative but don't suffer from compression as badly. Wool and fleece generally make better active insulation also. The reason for that is the synthetic fabric used as the exterior of puffies is typically not breathable and not good at moderating body heat. But it doesn't make it wind proof which I'll get to later.

As a mid layer I tend to mix the two or base my decision on how likely I am to need any active insulation. No real hard and fast rules just kinda what I grab each day. I would say generally I prefer wool and fleece as more verstaile mid-layers but may grab a puffy if I am trying to be more ultralight and expect it to perform just fine.

I'm of the belief that the outer layer should always be wind-proof or at least highly wind resistant. If not, all the warm air you've trapped in your mid layer insulation is just getting blown away.

A lot is just experimenting what works for you and not abiding by the rules put out by gear junkies trying to win the internet.

Even cotton. Listen to a gear junkie and you'd think the plant itself should be extinct. I switched to mostly wearing synthetics and kept feeling gross and sticky in my fancy synthetic fishing shirts. Switched back to cotton largely for that purpose and realized even a much maligned fabric has it's upsides to me it just feels a lot better in hot weather.

Great information on the compression. This is actually one of the things I want to be better informed about. This is because I am planning to use the Drey Dryad for the rut in Maryland which temperature expected to be around high 50s to low mid 20s. Plus subtract a few for being in the wood. The design of the Dryad will compressed my clothing for sure and I'm just wondering if I should disregard and puff/down layers and focus on heavier base layers.

 

[THill202]

Yes the layering matters if you're using the right materials. I agree with above. Merino as the base is one of the most imporant aspects. Different weights for different temperatures and levels of exhurtion. Merino needs to be next to the skin to really work so I wouldn't mess with multiple layers of that. Good Insulation over that (fleece, puffy, flannel, etc) and then a wind barrier is what I've come to like.