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Not meaning to open a can of worms - cross loading carabiners

raisins said:
I wasn't suggesting anything.

I was asking questions that pointed to things that perhaps weren't addressed in other's responses to me.

I'm formally trained in how to argue (parse arguments), you're not, you're bad it, but can't publicly take an L. Bye.
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Well, apparently the can of worms I opened was that I am “bad at arguing.” I do have to admit that is the most interesting accusation I’ve ever had leveled at me. Glad to know you’re formally trained at it.
 
I wish to apologize to the community if I went off the rails in my attempt to provide information or answer questions that were asked. I do not, nor will I argue any point (no matter how bad I apparently am at it) on the internet, I will however discuss those points and attempt to provide information that I am knowledgeable in. At the same time I’m always open to hear others opinions and certainly to learn from those who know more than I do about the facts of a particular situation.

The video was interesting to me and it should cause us to have a greater trust in at least that aspect of the equipment we use. However there is still a need to learn how to properly use it, keep it within the accepted safety parameters, inspect the equipment often, and most importantly pay attention to what we are doing. None of us want to have a catastrophic accident while trying to enjoy this sport we love.

Now, can we get back to the regularly scheduled programming on this beautiful day.
 
CharlieTN said:
Well, apparently the can of worms I opened was that I am “bad at arguing.” I do have to admit that is the most interesting accusation I’ve ever had leveled at me. Glad to know you’re formally trained at it.
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I purposefully removed that part in an edit because it was an impulsive statement that I didn't wish to have displayed publicly after thinking about it for 30 seconds. And I know that I know almost nothing about your background and so I made a statement that might very well be untrue, and so it was removed quickly. I'm surprised you even saw it. I apologize.
 
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CharlieTN said:
I wish to apologize to the community if I went off the rails in my attempt to provide information or answer questions that were asked. I do not, nor will I argue any point (no matter how bad I apparently am at it) on the internet, I will however discuss those points and attempt to provide information that I am knowledgeable in. At the same time I’m always open to hear others opinions and certainly to learn from those who know more than I do about the facts of a particular situation.

The video was interesting to me and it should cause us to have a greater trust in at least that aspect of the equipment we use. However there is still a need to learn how to properly use it, keep it within the accepted safety parameters, inspect the equipment often, and most importantly pay attention to what we are doing. None of us want to have a catastrophic accident while trying to enjoy this sport we love.

Now, can we get back to the regularly scheduled programming on this beautiful day.
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What you did that is BS is you told me what I meant and when I said "nope" you insisted that indeed that is what I meant. You should avoid that. It is a BS technique, and is not good faith argumentation. And that is why I became angry, but it is not an excuse for me not behaving correctly.
 
raisins said:
I purposefully removed that part in an edit because it was an impulsive statement that I didn't wish to have displayed publicly after thinking about it for 30 seconds. And I know that I know almost nothing about your background and so I made a statement that might very well be untrue, and so it was removed quickly. I'm surprised you even saw it. I apologize.
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I appreciate the apology. My intent was not to argue, or to belittle. I was simply going off of your “maybe” statement to add a fuller understanding based off of my knowledge. My intentions are never to belittle or put anyone down.
 
raisins said:
I wasn't suggesting anything. You projected what you thought I meant onto me and are even now saying "no, you're wrong in what you wrote and your own intentions." You honestly think asking a an honest question is suggesting something? Serious question, do you have ESPN?

I was asking questions that pointed to things that perhaps weren't addressed in other's responses to me.

You don't seem to realize that someone can simultaneously be right and also make a bad argument, which you are doing. But most of us can't take an L in public (in this case, even though you might be right subject matter wise, you should just admit that you are wrong in your approach, but most people can't do that). The correct response might be "oh, you're right, I see now that you were asking questions, sorry." But nope.

Not in the mood today, bye.
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To quote your original post - “Maybe a lot of us are using climbing gear in ways that rock climbers do not?”. That was the basis of my answer, and the basis of my assumption that you might be short sighted in that question, not fully understanding the overall community that uses this specific equipment. So my answer was to show that we do not abuse this equipment nearly as much as the climbing industry as a whole, which is so much more than rock climbers. If this is a bad argument, then so be it.

I understood that you were asking questions, and I was answering those questions. My apologies if my manner made you so angry.
 
This is simple. Ask the manufacturers.

The posturing and the assumptions, it’s all a waste of time. Either you assume the risk or they do.
 
TreeRecon said:
Here's a pic of a guy who trusts his aluminum carabiner. Btw: They have one of the highest safety records of any at height industry. View attachment 101725
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Ha, ha. I find it ironic after all the discussion of metal fatigue in this thread that this piece of machinery made it here. In case you didn't know the absolutely massive gears in wind turbines are highly susceptible to fatigue failure due to the cyclic forces applied through them due to the unbalances and vibrations in the blades.
 
I went and searched through SPRAT and IRATA's official safe practices guide for any mention of fatigue in life safety. Because honestly, this thread was the first time I've ever heard it discussed. Here's the only thing I found :

"Wire rope might be a suitable material for use in particular situations, providing that other
appropriate components needed for the system are available and that any other system requirements are met. Attention is drawn to wire rope made from stainless steel. Great care should be taken when selecting or specifying anchor lines made from stainless steel as some types of stainless steel can have unpredictable fatigue and corrosion characteristics."
 
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