Outdoor life broadhead test

[Crawdaddy4]

@Crawdaddy4
Don't get discouraged. There's more to it than shooting a 650 grain arrow, especially for whitetails. THP (The Hunting Public) has several videos where they discuss the success of heavy arrows, but most of them are shooting what the Ashby Foundation chart shows to be a "B" class arrow weight. Which is considered "acceptable" for whitetails, mulies, black bear and antelope.

Personally, I'm shooting 57# @ 29" DL with a 520 TAW. My arrows are tipped with Grizzly left single bevel broadheads and I feel very confident of getting a pass-thru on a whitetail, this fall.

The 650 Total Arrow Weight arrow gets mentioned for 100% pass-thru on hitting bones in African large game animals. African large game animals have hide thicknesses that we don't have to contend with here in North America. Then there's the heavier bone structure of African large game. Let's face it, they're dealing with an entirely different type of large game animals. I wouldn't let this "spook" you off...rather, take in what will work for you and let the rest go.

Well.....the Ashby Report lead me to this lunatic "The Ranch Fairy" and I watched 3 hours worth of tuning videos on YT yesterday by him and THP!! I have no desire to shoot a 650gr + arrow, but I did order the "Ranch Fairy Test Kit" from Sirius, because I would like to shoot a 500gr + arrow. I'm currently shooting a 385gr arrow with a 100gr G5 Montec broadhead. I have had issues with passthrough, so I'm going to shoot some heavier arrows with different spines and see what I can improve. Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it!!

 

[John 35]

If your not already blowing thru deer with ANY fixed head at ANY weight consistently you have a problem!

For a deer hunter to look at the Ashby report and model their set up after it is laughable unless your shooting 40lbs or something.

If your test isnt on live animals its pretty much useless. Im not talking a couple of deer Im talking dozens, hell you dont even get a good feel for what a head is capable of until youve run the gamete of different hits with it.

I'll take my recovery rate with 2 inch mechanicals over fixed heads any day.

There are fixed blade broadheads with over 2 inches of cut. Particularly in the 4 blade options. Of course the cuts are in a cross pattern instead of one big slit. But people always talk about the crazy cut rages have but they actually have less than some fixed blades.

 

[hokiehunter373]

Well.....the Ashby Report lead me to this lunatic "The Ranch Fairy" and I watched 3 hours worth of tuning videos on YT yesterday by him and THP!! I have no desire to shoot a 650gr + arrow, but I did order the "Ranch Fairy Test Kit" from Sirius, because I would like to shoot a 500gr + arrow. I'm currently shooting a 385gr arrow with a 100gr G5 Montec broadhead. I have had issues with passthrough, so I'm going to shoot some heavier arrows with different spines and see what I can improve. Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it!!

Even if for some reason you decide that having a heavier arrow is not what you, you'll have more confidence in your setup going through the tuning process. That'll still lead to better results.

 

[woodsdog2]

If you believe it may be the paint, you could take it apart in the areas it’s rubbing and take some 0000 steep wool and lightly smooth the paint out in and around the areas where the mesh is scraping it.

 

[cville_bowhunter]

Even if for some reason you decide that having a heavier arrow is not what you, you'll have more confidence in your setup going through the tuning process. That'll still lead to better results.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I went through this heavy arrow hype earlier this year...switched from 385gr TAW to 575gr TAW and now I'm at my goldilocks TAW of 465, which I'm super happy with. In the end, the humongous pin gaps are what made me uneasy about staying on the real heavy side

 

[Dsabhunt]

I would guess a push test on a fixed blade would be lower poundage due to having a sharper leading edge and having the blades closer to the tip? Less distance to push once penetrated to hit the blades. I've only ever deer hunted with rages and have always had pass through. With turkeys I've used both types and have had both pass through and not pass through with both types

 

[BowhunterXC]

I have a very short draw. 10 years ago I was just trying to shoot a light arrow to get higher FPS to make up for my draw. I was not getting pass throughs and it was a problem. Started upping my BH weight first. Then got heavier arrows. Then added inserts. Switched to single bevel. Got heavier BHs still. I don't care what my FPS is now I know when I let go of that arrow it's blowing through that deer. The unexpected benefit has been that my bow is incredibly silent now. The unexpected downside is if I shoot an animal on the ground I'm kissing that arrow goodbye unless there's a tree directly behind it.

@hokiehunter373
You have hit a good point with your improvements! Your facts and findings are the same as what the Ashby Foundation Reports show us.
They had a woman shooting a 24" draw length with 42# of draw weight, but using a 720 grain arrow and she shot through the shoulders of an Eland. This is a 1800+ pound animal. It's all about the momentum of the arrow, not speed!!!

 

[raisins]

not to beat a dead horse too much, but addressing the point of push tests versus shot arrows....here's Lusk reviews of the iron will and qad exodus....both shot into the same medium (a layer of rubber mat, then medium density fiber board, and then coming to rest in ballistic gelatin)

iron will 2 blade single bevel penetration = 8.25"
iron will single bevel with bleeders = 7.125"
qad exodus penetration = 8"

i can't remember a head penetrating more than 9"

 

[30-06guy]

When people talk about the Ashby reports it always seems to develop into an arrow weight conversion. However the first two factors on his list are perfect arrow flight and head and shaft integrity. If you are not shooting a tuned bow and arrow setup and/or your broadhead is not staying in one piece at impact, you have already reduced your penetration potential. I shot mechanical broadheads for a long time (3 blade meatseeker and 2 blade kill zones) and had a lot of good luck with them. But now I am back to shooting a fixed blade head (Kudu Point) because I have a lot more confidence in the fixed blade if something goes wrong with the shot and I come into contact with bone other than ribs.

 

[gwhalin]

Ballistic gel is not even remotely a good predictor of penetration on an animal with bone, muscle, sinew, vessels etc. for the same reason my foam 3d targets aren’t. The Lusk videos are fun but I don’t know that they are helpful for predicting penetration. There is an argument that they are somewhat good at showing edge retention though I don’t know how predictive metal plates and cement blocks are?

 

[sureshotscott]

Shooting xbow here. Thought I was happy with expandables until last Nov had one basically explode after contacting a branch on shot on a good buck. Recovered the bolt, no blood, mangled head. Switched to cuttthroats this year. I'm sticking with 125 grn weight as I used previously. Not inclined to change weight but open to suggestions.

 

[ShooterMike]

Some of the most successful bow hunters in existence today shoot a basic arrow with a mechanical broadhead. Bill Winke just had a video on that recently. And give consideration to people like Levi Morgan, who’s punching through big animals with a 440gr arrow and mechanical broadhead.

I appreciate the time and energy Ashby put in to the research, but the dogma behind heavy arrows is just absurd. If I remember correctly, the data is based on traditional bows that produce low energy.

Speed vs. arrow weight ….. it still comes down to KE and MO, but of which have a relationship to speed and weight. It’s all about balance. And as mentioned above, arrow weight isn’t even one of the first two factors for arrow penetration.


Semper Fi,
Mike

 

[BTaylor]

Ballistic gel is not even remotely a good predictor of penetration on an animal with bone, muscle, sinew, vessels etc. for the same reason my foam 3d targets aren’t. The Lusk videos are fun but I don’t know that they are helpful for predicting penetration. There is an argument that they are somewhat good at showing edge retention though I don’t know how predictive metal plates and cement blocks are?

Waste of perfectly good broadheads in most cases.

 

[Shed84]

Said it before but I've shot a light arrow/mechanicals my whole life and blow through whitetail deer with no problem at all. For many years it was a grimreaper 3 blade mechanical and I've since went to a megameat. Anywhere from 65-70lbs 30 1/2 draw and for years before I spent money on quality arrows I shot whatever was on the shelf at Walmart. I don't have experience with elk size game but I think shooting a heavy slow arrow at a whitetail is insane.

 

[Plebe]

Ballistic gel is not even remotely a good predictor of penetration on an animal with bone, muscle, sinew, vessels etc. for the same reason my foam 3d targets aren’t. The Lusk videos are fun but I don’t know that they are helpful for predicting penetration. There is an argument that they are somewhat good at showing edge retention though I don’t know how predictive metal plates and cement blocks are?

And how do we rate OL's push test as a predictor then? Door mat, foam, leather.

 

[gwhalin]

Said it before but I've shot a light arrow/mechanicals my whole life and blow through whitetail deer with no problem at all. For many years it was a grimreaper 3 blade mechanical and I've since went to a megameat. Anywhere from 65-70lbs 30 1/2 draw and for years before I spent money on quality arrows I shot whatever was on the shelf at Walmart. I don't have experience with elk size game but I think shooting a heavy slow arrow at a whitetail is insane.

I am shooting a heavy arrow at white tails and I am not insane. I know my trajectory, speed at target, ballistics, kinetic energy and momentum at various points out to 40 yards. And I have this for my light arrows and heavy arrows. I feel pretty confident in my setup using ballistics and not relying on anecdotal comments.

 

[gwhalin]

And how do we rate OL's push test as a predictor then? Door mat, foam, leather.

No idea honestly. I am not sure any material is a good predictor.

I am just relaying on physics and range time. Sharper is better. More momentum and kinetic energy at target is better. A tuned bow that shoots straight with broadheads is better. And proficiency of the archer is most important.

 

[Plebe]

I am shooting a heavy arrow at white tails and I am not insane. I know my trajectory, speed at target, ballistics, kinetic energy and momentum at various points out to 40 yards. And I have this for my light arrows and heavy arrows. I feel pretty confident in my setup using ballistics and not relying on anecdotal comments.

Heavy and light, what does that even mean anymore.

But I agree, not insane. Make thoughtful decisions, know what you are capable of, know what your equipment is capable of, be careful in the margins.

 

[Shed84]

I am shooting a heavy arrow at white tails and I am not insane. I know my trajectory, speed at target, ballistics, kinetic energy and momentum at various points out to 40 yards. And I have this for my light arrows and heavy arrows. I feel pretty confident in my setup using ballistics and not relying on anecdotal comments.

Hay man to each his own. If a pass thru is the goal and faster arrow for me does that I would be insane to shoot a slower arrow. Pretty simple.

 

[gwhalin]

Heavy and light, what does that even mean anymore.

But I agree, not insane. Make thoughtful decisions, know what you are capable of, know what your equipment is capable of, be careful in the margins.

Yeah the heavy vs light debate is so oversimplified. So is fast vs slow.

I set a a chronograph up at 40 yards and shot arrows from 430gr up to 630gr. Difference coming off the bow was about 40fps but that 430 gr arrow slowed down a whole lot more out at 40. They were only like 15-20fps different at 40. So what does fast mean? What is slow?
At the distance I shoot whitetail I am confident in my trajectory and I know I will have way more momentum with a heavier setup. If I was shooting out west I would go with a lighter and faster setup to give me a better trajectory at longer range. But even then I would experiment with weight and speed and trajectory at target to maximize mass while getting the trajectory I want.

I do the same thing with bullets.