Rappelling 101

[slonstdy]

Also looking to start rappelling after a hunt. I've done it a bunch of times at rock climbing places with a belayer and it's always a blast. Anyone ever use the Black Diamond ATC-XP? Any benefit to this model? Says it's lighter and has 3x the holding power. Is that a good thing? And in Jamie's video, it looks like he's using a sewn loop standard prusik with two wraps rather than a French prusik autoblock. Or did I see that incorrectly? Thanks!

Sent from up in a tree

That's the one I use, works great.

 

[mattsteg]

Or put another way - if I was coming in from zero, my questions would be:

1. Can this be done safely and practically?
2. How does this fit into a hunting situation?
   1. Is this something I'd feel comfortable performing when I'm not at my best?
   2. Is this something I want to carry into the woods?
   3. How to I set up and tear down?
3. How can (and should) I use my existing equipment?
4. What equipment, if any do I need in addition? How much cost, weight, and bulk is involved?
5. How do I do this safely?

Rock climbing videos really only get at point 5! I need to at least touch on points 1-4 first.

 

[NikoTheBowHunter]

How do you connect to your tether? I see your figure eight has the bridge run through it to eliminate the carabiner but it looks like your prussic is also fixed to your bridge.

My prusik and figure 8 are both permanently attached to my bridge. Bridge is attached to saddle via two petzel triangle/d links(?) so they can be taken off if needed. The prusik is now molded to the shape of the rope after so many hunts. So I just tuck the figure 8 into my saddle waist belt as I walk in. Then when I get to the tree, I tether up, run the rope through the prusik and figure 8, climb to height via my one stick and done deal. End of the day, I just lossen the prusik and rappel down. Easy peasy.

 

[Dylan9862003]

My prusik and figure 8 are both permanently attached to my bridge. Bridge is attached to saddle via two petzel triangle/d links(?) so they can be taken off if needed. The prusik is now molded to the shape of the rope after so many hunts. So I just tuck the figure 8 into my saddle waist belt as I walk in. Then when I get to the tree, I tether up, run the rope through the prusik and figure 8, climb to height via my one stick and done deal. End of the day, I just lossen the prusik and rappel down. Easy peasy.
View attachment 21619

If I am understanding you correctly you are threading the entire length of your rappel/tether rope through the memorized prussic you show in the photo and then beginning your ascent. Is that correct?

What is your climbing technique? Sorry I missed the one stick technique reference somehow.....

 

[Tr33_n1nj@]

Think this supports 8mm Oplux ...

Grivel Master Mono Belay

Grivel Master Mono Belay device – perfect for rappelling on rope from 7.3mm – 11mm. This works with Sterling Oplux and Sterling HTP (9mm/10mm). Recommended carabiners for belay devices:…

doublesteps.com

Isn’t that in the double rope config? I don’t want to buy 2 ropes just to repel.

 

[NikoTheBowHunter]

If I am understanding you correctly you are threading the entire length of your rappel/tether rope through the memorized prussic you show in the photo and then beginning your ascent. Is that correct?

What is your climbing technique?

Yup, 35ft rope of which I probably have to thread 25ft-ish. I do this to avoid having to use an additional carabiner and avoid the metal to metal contact with the figure 8(can see where it was grinding away on the inside of the figure 8). Also w/o the carabiner it makes it much easier to use when descending (IMO). And single stick is my climbing method.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

I too want to start rappelling. I have been practicing in the backyard. I use an RC harness and add a runner to the belay loop to hook (via locking caribiner) into a black diamond sport ATC. I am using OpLux and a beal jammy as my backup. But, when I was testing tying the beal jammy into an autoblock, I found it didn't seem to grab well enough. I started tying the jammy into a prussik and it seemed to work better.

Question for the experienced: Is there any problem tying your backup into a prussik vs. an autoblock?

I don’t claim to be an expert but my experience is the same. I have been using a Beal jammy and a Prussic too. No problems yet. I switched two weeks ago because I had trouble with an auto block. Maybe I should try another wrap with the auto block. I am using a safe guard with it not an atc

The Prussic stays nicely dressed too. So far it has not locked up


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[Homebrew454]

I'm using hollowblock for my autoblock and I have had no problems. I usually do 4 but the last time I used it I did a fifth wrap. It had more holding power and I rappelled slower.

I have used both a safeguard and lifeguard with it but prefer my madrock wingspan. It is a much smoother descent.

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[slonstdy]

I don’t claim to be an expert but my experience is the same. I have been using a Beal jammy and a Prussic too. No problems yet. I switched two weeks ago because I had trouble with an auto block. Maybe I should try another wrap with the auto block. I am using a safe guard with it not an atc

The Prussic stays nicely dressed too. So far it has not locked up


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Same way here, used a beal jammy prusik as an autoblock all season on 9mm htp without incident. I've also ascended the rope with two jammy prusiks and found they grabbed tight when weighted and were easy to slide up the rope when unloaded.

 

[weekender21]

I don’t claim to be an expert but my experience is the same. I have been using a Beal jammy and a Prussic too. No problems yet. I switched two weeks ago because I had trouble with an auto block. Maybe I should try another wrap with the auto block. I am using a safe guard with it not an atc

The Prussic stays nicely dressed too. So far it has not locked up


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The Beal jammy is a newer “tech cord” and has a very slick outer sheath. I haven’t tried one as an auto block personally but I’m not surprised it is slipping on you. Especially if you’re using it with OpLux, another slippery sheath.


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[MaxJac]

Also looking to start rappelling after a hunt. I've done it a bunch of times at rock climbing places with a belayer and it's always a blast. Anyone ever use the Black Diamond ATC-XP? Any benefit to this model? Says it's lighter and has 3x the holding power. Is that a good thing? And in Jamie's video, it looks like he's using a sewn loop standard prusik with two wraps rather than a French prusik autoblock. Or did I see that incorrectly? Thanks!

Sent from up in a tree

I use one, perfect with a Prussia as autostop

 

[Ontariofarmer]

The Beal jammy is a newer “tech cord” and has a very slick outer sheath. I haven’t tried one as an auto block personally but I’m not surprised it is slipping on you. Especially if you’re using it with OpLux, another slippery sheath.


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Maybe that is why a prussic works better


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[kobudo]

I was slipping slightly with the jammy too in autoblock configuration. I had better luck with the klemheist. I am far form an expert, but it might be worth a try.

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[weekender21]

If you are using an autoblock below the ATC almost any thin rope will work since it is so lightly loaded. The load is only as much as my one arm can hold down which is not much. The Beal jammy is overkill for this application but about 7 simple wraps and clip the end to your carbiner should work.
It can't get much simpler than this video. It doesn't even have to be dressed pretty to work. This video is not too long although I got a little bored at 35 seconds in.

I disagree on two points here.

First, almost any thin rope will not work. Like any other application of friction hitches, the difference in size between the hitch material is important (there are exceptions such as the Sterling Hollowblock) and the material relationship between the hitch and the rope can vary greatly. Without going down a rabbit trail, not all materials work well together. It's been brought up by a few guys already that the Jammy Material isn't working well with OpLux un the autoblock configuration. Both are newer state of the art "tech materials" and have a very slick sheath. Just one example but hopefully it gets the point across.

Second, the autoblock requires dressing like any other hitch. It's much more effective once properly dressed. Again here, the material of your hitch might be easier or harder to dress but it does matter.

 

[weekender21]

Friction hitches have been tried to rappel down a rope and all professional climbing organizations DO NOT recommend this. Tree climbers only use a bare friction hitch for DdRT with a double rope so half the load. With a single rope the hitch can melt and slip or jam up tight. Rock climbers only use friction hitches for holding on a rope. I have practiced rappeling down from a few feet up and found out they are right.

I'm not sure what climbing organizations you're referring to but using an ATC with a friction hitch back-up is common place in the climbing community. Using a non mechanical belay device (ATC) and a friction hitch back-up is about as simple as it gets. First place probably belongs to the figure eight but the ATC provides a similar purpose and the friction back-up allows hands free work on the way down if required. This system trumps any mechanical method IMO.

This guy isn't officially speaking on behalf of a "climbing organization" but this method is common. In this video, the back up is used above the ATC. I've used a VT prusik above an ATC like this in the past. It works fine but typically requires a little more equipment. A Sterling Hollowblock below is a good option IF you can ensure enough space between your hitch and the ATC.

 

[weekender21]

In the auto block video already posted by @weekender21 (back third post) tells you the difference between the friction knots the ones that you use for repelling vs just holding...thats why I use a Klemheist knot it's made to release better under load than a prussik....
Also as a safety side note to anyone trying this for the first time:
Learn and practice how to foot lock the rope
Learn how to use a munter hitch, or an auto block to repell down( in the event you drop your device whether its an ATC,Figure 8,or belay device).
Please do it near the ground....it's very easy to gain confidence in any/all device while standing on the ground and leaning/walking away from the tree. Then move to a few feet off the ground each time until you gain more confidence and experience.
Here are some options in the event you drop or forget your device...

Great points all around. I've watched several of her videos, definite climbing pro.

For anyone that didn't catch it, she referred to the ATC as a rappel device and mentions backing up her modified method of rappel with a friction hitch (happens to be a Sterling Hollowblock) just like she would with the rappel device.

X1000 on learning the munter hitch for a rainy day.

 

[Homebrew454]

I'm assuming the munter hitch would be used instead of an ATC or mechanical device. Backed up with a autoblock, klemheist, etc.

I usually have a backup mechanical device just in case.

I also should clarify that I'm using 9mm htp with my autoblock and I'm having no issues. I don't have any Oplux yet. I just didn't want to be the first person using a safeguard on it out of specs (in my first year rappelling). I'm still not certain I would switch to the Oplux though due to Madrock specs recommending greater than 8mm rope to be used with it. Although, I think it falls in specs with my madrock wingman.

Guess I could maybe have Oplux for 1 sticking/rappelling and the htp for when I SRT. Man this place gets expensive. I thought I was done buying after SRT last year.

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[eddiegomes83]

Does anybody else have their rope get stuck in tree often? I have had it happen a couple times. Maybe my pull down rope isn't heavy enough or something.

 

[Homebrew454]

Does anybody else have their rope get stuck in tree often? I have had it happen a couple times. Maybe my pull down rope isn't heavy enough or something.

I'm using 1.75mm zing it. It compacts super small and has 500 pound average breaking strength (I made a locked brummel and bury to form a loop). It works really well to get the rope down. I girth hitch it to the loop of my rappel rope.

Only 1 time was it hard. It was caught up on a limb. I thought I was going to break it but it held up and the SRT rope was able to come down.

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[mattsteg]

It's been brought up by a few guys already that the Jammy Material isn't working well with OpLux un the autoblock configuration. Both are newer state of the art "tech materials" and have a very slick sheath. Just one example but hopefully it gets the point across.

It's worth pointing out that beal recommends the longer jammies with 5-6 wraps for autoblocks.