"Saddle" Hunting with a Rock Climbing Harness

[yoda4x4]

Yeah I need to clarify that. When I said load rated I meant for more than gear hanging like most RCH's. I use a Metolius Safe Tech and the gear loops are rated to 4.5kn. The gear loops are not rated or meant to take a fall on but I feel safe using them for linemans use. I think the military line of Misty Mountain harnesses are built similarly but would want to verify that. The Metolius is a little bit of a pain to put on and take off but is a really comfortable harness in use both walking and climbing.

Which Safe Tech are you using? There are 7 different ones listed on the Metolius website.

David

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[Fl Canopy Stalker]

View attachment 65254
Manual actually says 10kn for the gear loops. While they are certainly not designed specifically to be used for linemans rope I am not depending on them for fall restraint, only work positioning. I am always connected to my main tether/rappel rope.

If you are using them as a lineman’s loop in conjunction with a lineman’s rope, then you run the risk of them becoming dynamicly loaded. For this reason in my mind 10kN while higher than what the human threshold is, is not high enough. The loops should be at least 10 times the harnesses maximum weight rating to be strong enough. Statistically you are most likely to fall while stepping onto or off of your platform. If done correctly you will have two attachment methods during that event. Many times people only have their lineman’s rope on though so you run an increase risk of the lineman’s loops becoming fall arrest. Worth mentioning is also that a saddle is only fall restraint (ie work positioning) and not intended for fall arrest.
Also worth mentioning for everyone considering a rock climbing harness, they are safe to fall in when used in conjunction with a dynamic lead line. Saddle hunters typically use static lanyards and static lead lines meaning a rock climbing harness is not truly any safer for fall arrest.
This is why TMA still hasn’t adopted saddles as safe alternatives to full body harnesses and this is also what makes XOP’s saddle/FBH unique. It is the safest answer for guys wanting to hybrid both stand hunting and saddles in one.

 

[Brocky]

Not sure why both loops wouldn’t receive nearly equal amount of load while in the basket configuration of an LB?
A concern of using them might be the direction they are pulled, sideways, instead of the normal straight down.

 

[BTaylor]

Which Safe Tech are you using? There are 7 different ones listed on the Metolius website.

David

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I have the All Around.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Not sure why both loops wouldn’t receive nearly equal amount of load while in the basket configuration of an LB?
A concern of using them might be the direction they are pulled, sideways, instead of the normal straight down.
[/QUOTE
Totally agreed, however sometimes the fall isn’t backwards as intended because people stand into the tree and lean sideways to reach around, allowing their hips too close to maintain proper tension and angle. A stick cutting out usually happens on one side not both, dropping the person more to one side than the other, in this instances the loops would be loaded unevenly at initial arrest (if they even tension and catch at all). That’s all I was saying. In my mind the loops should be a minimum of 15 kN strength in case of a fall, cutout ect… I hope that all makes sense

 

[yoda4x4]

I have the All Around.

Thanks for this. I've been eyeing the Petzl Falcon Mountain which has small linesman loops on it. But this Metolius is going to be on my radar as an option.

David

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[Jtaylor]

Couldnt someone use a similar attachment as the Dryad? Doesn't the Dryad work without linesman loops? Just run your adjustable rope attached to the RCH loop around the tree and hook back into the RCH loop.

 

[BTaylor]

If you are using them as a lineman’s loop in conjunction with a lineman’s rope, then you run the risk of them becoming dynamicly loaded. For this reason in my mind 10kN while higher than what the human threshold is, is not high enough. The loops should be at least 10 times the harnesses maximum weight rating to be strong enough. Statistically you are most likely to fall while stepping onto or off of your platform. If done correctly you will have two attachment methods during that event. Many times people only have their lineman’s rope on though so you run an increase risk of the lineman’s loops becoming fall arrest. Worth mentioning is also that a saddle is only fall restraint (ie work positioning) and not intended for fall arrest.
Also worth mentioning for everyone considering a rock climbing harness, they are safe to fall in when used in conjunction with a dynamic lead line. Saddle hunters typically use static lanyards and static lead lines meaning a rock climbing harness is not truly any safer for fall arrest.
This is why TMA still hasn’t adopted saddles as safe alternatives to full body harnesses and this is also what makes XOP’s saddle/FBH unique. It is the safest answer for guys wanting to hybrid both stand hunting and saddles in one.

Yeah when hanging and hunting from a stand I always have the lineman and primary tether attached when transitioning on and off.

 

[BTaylor]

Thanks for this. I've been eyeing the Petzl Falcon Mountain which has small linesman loops on it. But this Metolius is going to be on my radar as an option.

David

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Just be certain you are clear about the issues @Brocky and @Fl Canopy Stalker have mentioned and the risk being assumed in using an RCH in this fashion.

 

[Brocky]

Thanks for this. I've been eyeing the Petzl Falcon Mountain which has small linesman loops on it. But this Metolius is going to be on my radar as an option.

David

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I have the Falcon Accent, much better for sitting in, with rated attachment points, than the typical rch.

 

[gcr0003]

I think it should be mentioned that rock climbing harnesses are not fall arrest harnesses. They have no deceleration device with them (since that’s typically the responsibility of the belayer). This means if you’re sitting in your hang on with slack then stand up to take a shot, adding more slack, and then you fall, it’s not going to feel good. Since they’re only attached at the waist they are considered a higher risk of neck and back injury (but honestly if you’re falling out of tree you’re likely going to get messed up regardless). Saddles are not fall arrest devices either, but when used nominally are always loaded as a work position devices so dynamic loads are mitigated.

I just don’t want you to think that if you’re in a rock climbing harness you’re somehow just instantly safe. There are still consideration to be made.

Rock climbing harnesses are uncomfortable and grab the junk a lot if worn properly.

I would suggest keeping your fall arrest tree stand harness and simply adding a fleece hammock if you get the itching to turn around and hang. More than one way to skin a cat, but that’s my suggestion.

 

[Marmuzz]

This older thread might be applicable on adding linesman loops:

Adding lineman's loops to Edelrid Huascaran Climbing Harness

I added lineman's loops by double girth hitching two 22kn Nylon/Dyneema Slings to the harness. I then zip tied them in place. It ends up weighing 9oz. I'll be making a video, but I thought I'd open this up for discussion. EDELRID - Huascaran Climbing Harness, Night/Oasis, Medium...

saddlehunter.com

I would use that method for positioning only, and always be tethered off properly.

 

[Iron_llama]

Please provide pics inquiring minds want to know.

I'm out of town until next week, but I'll snap some pics when I get back.

 

[GeoFish]

This is why TMA still hasn’t adopted saddles as safe alternatives to full body harnesses and this is also what makes XOP’s saddle/FBH unique. It is the safest answer for guys wanting to hybrid both stand hunting and saddles in one.

Looking at the XOP. what feature does it have that makes it TMA approved as a fall arrest harness?
I think I would rather fall in a rock climbing harness.

 

[Jimdude]

Couldnt someone use a similar attachment as the Dryad? Doesn't the Dryad work without linesman loops? Just run your adjustable rope attached to the RCH loop around the tree and hook back into the RCH loop.

Yes. I ran my linesman rope off my center attachment point on my RCH. That is how the original Drey was designed as well.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Looking at the XOP. what feature does it have that makes it TMA approved as a fall arrest harness?
I think I would rather fall in a rock climbing harness.

It is a full body harness that has a saddle and bridge loops sewn into it. It has the same rear connect style lanyard point as most full body harnesses. The leg straps are built into the main harness and are full weight load bearing. The saddle portion functions as a saddle (although admittedly it does look uncomfortable to me, however I have not tried it). It is currently the only saddle/hybrid on the market that is approved to be used in a fall arrest but even then it’s only a fall arrest if you are hooked to the rear lanyard attachment not using it as a saddle

 

[Marmuzz]

Getting ticky tack here: Not to rain on the XOP parade but I question functionally how they can claim that. On their website, the image shows a guy tethered in saddle configuration, which won’t qualify for fall arrest. However, to satisfy that, you’d have to have two tethers, one hooked up high on the tree for your back and then for saddle purposes set one at chest height for the front. And because they’re on opposite sides of your body, to get correct slack and tension, that back tether would have to be really high on the tree—and then you’d either be resisting it when trying to lean into your saddle, or you’d have to give it enough slack that your bridge connection has a short enough reach to make tension to sit or lean—at which point you’ve possibly opened up enough additional slack and shock to be minimally helpful (if at all?) on the back tether if you fell. I know a fall caught on your upper body is better than your waist, and that might be an extensive hypothetical so somebody point out if I have it wrong. It just seems like a wildly uncomfortable tether mess to rig up for proper fall arrest, or you have to accept the risk of wearing a saddle, at which point all you’ve gained is a dual-option harness if you want a back tether for a regular hang on stand. Yea or nay?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Getting ticky tack here: Not to rain on the XOP parade but I question functionally how they can claim that. On their website, the image shows a guy tethered in saddle configuration, which won’t qualify for fall arrest. However, to satisfy that, you’d have to have two tethers, one hooked up high on the tree for your back and then for saddle purposes set one at chest height for the front. And because they’re on opposite sides of your body, to get correct slack and tension, that back tether would have to be really high on the tree—and then you’d either be resisting it when trying to lean into your saddle, or you’d have to give it enough slack that your bridge connection has a short enough reach to make tension to sit or lean—at which point you’ve possibly opened up enough additional slack and shock to be minimally helpful (if at all?) on the back tether if you fell. I know a fall caught on your upper body is better than your waist, and that might be an extensive hypothetical so somebody point out if I have it wrong. It just seems like a wildly uncomfortable tether mess to rig up for proper fall arrest, or you have to accept the risk of wearing a saddle, at which point all you’ve gained is a dual-option harness if you want a back tether for a regular hang on stand. Yea or nay?

Yes, but since the OP stated he is going to stand hunt and only needs a saddle or RCH for his one stick ascent, this harness would serve both purposes. People seem to miss the functionality point that a RCH is only able to safely arrest a fall when used in conjunction with long long dynamic lead lines. Saddle hunters do not use long dynamic lead lines, we tend to use short static lanyards or short static lead rope in which case an RCH is no safer than a normal saddle and way more uncomfortable. This is why I suggested the XOP is because it could serve both purposes the post asked about where a RCH would not.

 

[gcr0003]

Getting ticky tack here: Not to rain on the XOP parade but I question functionally how they can claim that. On their website, the image shows a guy tethered in saddle configuration, which won’t qualify for fall arrest. However, to satisfy that, you’d have to have two tethers, one hooked up high on the tree for your back and then for saddle purposes set one at chest height for the front. And because they’re on opposite sides of your body, to get correct slack and tension, that back tether would have to be really high on the tree—and then you’d either be resisting it when trying to lean into your saddle, or you’d have to give it enough slack that your bridge connection has a short enough reach to make tension to sit or lean—at which point you’ve possibly opened up enough additional slack and shock to be minimally helpful (if at all?) on the back tether if you fell. I know a fall caught on your upper body is better than your waist, and that might be an extensive hypothetical so somebody point out if I have it wrong. It just seems like a wildly uncomfortable tether mess to rig up for proper fall arrest, or you have to accept the risk of wearing a saddle, at which point all you’ve gained is a dual-option harness if you want a back tether for a regular hang on stand. Yea or nay?

I hunted some with a full body harness hooked over my shoulder and into my tether it was fine. I paired it with a fleece saddle. I think you could use it with a hang on for a hybrid set up, for sitting, standing or leaning.

 

[gcr0003]

Yes, but since the OP stated he is going to stand hunt and only needs a saddle or RCH for his one stick ascent, this harness would serve both purposes. People seem to miss the functionality point that a RCH is only able to safely arrest a fall when used in conjunction with long long dynamic lead lines. Saddle hunters do not use long dynamic lead lines, we tend to use short static lanyards or short static lead rope in which case an RCH is no safer than a normal saddle and way more uncomfortable. This is why I suggested the XOP is because it could serve both purposes the post asked about where a RCH would not.

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