• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Saddle safety redundancy systems (what do you do?)

I have tied in a second shorter bridge on all my saddles and once I am tethered in on my main bridge I take the tail end of the tether and tie it directly to the shorter bridge so I have redundancy in my system. I know it's not true redundancy unless I use a second tether but I am probably in the minority here still using my 11mm assault line tether which I think is bulletproof. I feel if that should somehow fail then the Big Guy upstairs has a plan for me that I am unable to refuse.
 
slonstdy said:
I have tied in a second shorter bridge on all my saddles and once I am tethered in on my main bridge I take the tail end of the tether and tie it directly to the shorter bridge so I have redundancy in my system. I know it's not true redundancy unless I use a second tether but I am probably in the minority here still using my 11mm assault line tether which I think is bulletproof. I feel if that should somehow fail then the Big Guy upstairs has a plan for me that I am unable to refuse.
Click to expand...
Generally accepted practice is a near-bulletproof tether. With a couple of exceptions, even lightweight setups are still generally something like 8mm canyoneering rope. Your main support should generally be something highly unlikely to ever fail absent human error or lack of inspection, and your routine and backups should be oriented toward gear inspection and protection against human error.

We've seen a few falls (whether here on gacebook groups) and close calls lately. A guy mistied a bridge. A guy set up his old trophy line and next thing he knew he was on the ground (but no bisible damage to gear...). Guys taking spills climbing, especially the aider folks.

The biggest risks we face? human error and not tethering in properly. Sketchy climbing methods, slack in tether, falling on static line. Slipping off the end of a tether that doesn't have a stopper knot. Climb-rated rope failing without warning? That's way down the list (unless you take a static fall on a ropeman or something...).

Use rated gear. Inspect regularly. Insert caution and redundancy in your routine whereever the risk of hunan error is highest (like when transitioning to tether). Minimize task-loading (don't add conplicated backups that lead you to screw up your routine) and sinplify. Simple is safe.
 
swd said:
I have no experience with climbing or its related knots. Would this just be a back up connecting to one side of the saddle as a fail safe? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Yes. This only backs up your "Rope Grab" device on your tether. Say you had a hand on your prussik or ropeman and you slipped...you might go for a ride. An Alpine butterfly tied on your tether attached to your belt loop would prevent.

If your tether breaks you hit the ground. Likely your tether is 11-13mm Static Kernmantle rope rated around 6-7000lbs. You probably have Figure 8 knot that you pass through to girth hitch the tree, so that decreases the rope strength by 20-40%...so your tether is good for say 4000 lbs. If your body experiences a 4000lb force...well your guts turn to jelly.

If you want a "true" secondary back up keep your lineman's belt attached to yourself and the tree and run a prussik hitch attached between both sides of the tight lb.

Climbing Geek Out Notice: When working at heights you should have a Primary and Secondary. Primary is whatever your weight is resting on. That can be your hands and feet, your lineman's belt or whatever you are using to "work" rope.

The secondary is your back up in case primary fails. No weight should ever be in the secondary.

In the case of saddle hunting we don't have a true secondary because our weight is on our teacher and we have no back up.

Be advised I'm not an arborist and only work /train other guys to work on towers. So my tree experience is limited but the principles are basically the same.
 
I set up in a rickety treestand with my saddle last week. Kept my lineman’s connected for a lot of the time in addition to my tether, but I had to remove the lineman’s for certain actions, particularly ascending/descending a trunk that was too wide around for me to hug. I used the landowner’s Lifeline that was already hooked up to hook a second sling and carabiner to my shortened bridge, effectively turning the Lifeline and saddle combo into a belay system or rappel. I just moved the prusik up/down with each step and kept less than 6” of slack in the system at all times.
 
Double amsteel bridges spliced to one side, carabiner to the other, double oplux tethers with separate carabiners around both tethers. Takes up less space than my previous predator rope set up despite being two of everything. I think my only single point of failure is the saddle. I try to use the linesman loops on the saddle as my backup to minimize single points of failure.
 
Tony said:
You could take the free end of your tether and tie an Alpine butterfly and clip that to the lineman's belt loop on your harness
Click to expand...

Couldn't find a pic or video of this knot in this application. I like the idea. Can you share some kind of pic or video that would be helpful? Thanks!

This Alpine Butterfly?

but then how do you run it through your lineman's loop?
 
LiverEatingJoe said:
Couldn't find a pic or video of this knot in this application. I like the idea. Can you share some kind of pic or video that would be helpful? Thanks!

This Alpine Butterfly?

but then how do you run it through your lineman's loop?
Click to expand...


Use the carabineer that you have to attach your lineman's belt.
 
swd said:
I have no experience with climbing or its related knots. Would this just be a back up connecting to one side of the saddle as a fail safe? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Yes

The Alpine butterfly is extremely easy to tie, plenty of good videos on YouTube.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The only thing redundant I do is double check to make sure carabiners and Ropemans are all hooked up right, and knots are tight before I put weight on them. Since it’s not a fall arrest, the chance of something breaking is too small to worry about. Human error (not hooking something up right) is the only thing I worry about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
catman529 said:
The only thing redundant I do is double check to make sure carabiners and Ropemans are all hooked up right, and knots are tight before I put weight on them. Since it’s not a fall arrest, the chance of something breaking is too small to worry about. Human error (not hooking something up right) is the only thing I worry about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

I'm with you on that mentality. IMO if you have a solid primary system, there is no need for redundancy. The main reason I started connecting the tag end of my tether to my lineman's loop was to get it out of the way. It does technically back up my bridge and attachment method (RM1 or friction hitch) to my tether BUT...if I'm being honest, I don't think it's needed.
 
I just use my lineman belt as a second tether at waist level and hook it into my lineman loop on one side only. If the bridge or main tether etc breaks I’m hooked up. It’s on my weak side out of the way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top