Screamers Aaahhhhhh!!!!

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Ok everyone, the hot topic lately seems to be one sticking… I am not here to tell someone how they should or should not climb. With one sticking the factor that seems to be common and somewhat unavoidable is slack in your tether as you advance. I reached out a couple weeks ago to a manufacturer of a ripstop screamer (DMM international) and inquired about using their product as the force reducer to help “soften a fall” and the response was as expected. The product is not approved nor effective when used as a primary fall absorber, it’s not made to have a constant load because you could cause the stitches to weaken or engage prematurely. They proceeded to recommend we use a FBH with a true FAS lanyard instead. Now I realize that is not realistic. Since that post a couple weeks ago I have seen 2 other threads either suggesting via video that using a Yates screamer would make falling safer, or asking if attaching it as a primary directly to the webbing is an acceptable use. I personally do not think it will reduce your fall by 3 or 4kN on “any climbing system” as suggested. With no actual testing data or information available (because it wasn’t intended to be used how saddle hunters use them) I have now also reached out to Yates gear to inquire if the screamer would in fact be a safer alternative should a fall occur.
My message went as follows:

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

“To whom it may concern,

I am intending to use this product outside of the normal suggested use. I am utilizing a screamer attached to a short static lanyard. My harness for all intents and purposes, is a work positioning harness with the attachment point at my hips/waist. The screamer is my primary/only attachment between my harness and lanyard. My lanyard is girth hitched to a tree and my connection is usually within 2’ of that anchor point. Sometimes the lanyard has a constant load of 225 to 300 lbs. sometimes it is unloaded but I climb above my anchor point with potential of a 1:1 or even a 1.5:1 fall factor. Fall distance would be a maximum of 3’ (one foot above my anchor point with 2’ of slack in my static rope). In my described scenario, would your product work as claimed to reduce my fall force to an acceptable amount. Example if I sustained a 1.5:1 fall and it created approximately 6 to 7kN, would the screamer reduce the force to my body to 2 or 3kN as claimed on your site?If it would not work as intended due to my climbing system, can you suggest a different product that would soften the fall to acceptable amounts while on a work positioning harness. Thank you in advance for your response. This email is sent for informational purposes only and no liability for your company for your response”.
Once I receive a response I will post it here since this seems to be a hot topic of late and because I want us to be safe during our ascent and descent from the tree. Maybe I am wrong and Yates screamer is the answer to make us safer. Either way I will post their response here as soon as I receive it. Thanks everyone for reading. Also if I missed anything or if the info I provided seems incorrect to you, please let me know so that I can update my email or response to them. Thanks again y’all

 

[enkriss]

So what if it weakens a couple of stitches in the screamer over continued use?

Buy a new one once it starts to tear… big deal! It’s $20

It’s not going to hurt to use it. Its going to reduce impact force in a fall.

With all the other crap used out of spec by people on this site and the sketchy DIY crap and here you are making a big deal about a screamer.

This whole pissing match is stupid.

 

[Zacrowsl]

I can already tell you what their going to say. It wasn't designed for this be we do not recommend it blah blah blah...same as a bunch of other companies that we use out of spec equipment for..... But I think anyone can use common since and figure out that it works almost identical to the way a safety harness works. If it will reduce the forces applied to a anchor how in the hell would it not do the same for the climber?....Let's start emailin safety harness companies and see if they'll okay their lanyard in place of a screamer! With that said, That doesn't mean you should do stupid stuff and it'll save your life if you decide to jump head first off a saddle platform. It doesn't mean you'll survive a 6ft fall. Even if the absorber works you could break your back. Some of you go to great lengths to try to be right ALL the time. And on top of that you guys gang up and are extremely rude when doing so..love to meet some day.....I'm over the whole thing but you guys just keep on....it's exhausting

 

[bowhuntr09]

I can already tell you what their going to say. It wasn't designed for this be we do not recommend it blah blah blah...same as a bunch of other companies that we use out of spec equipment for..... But I think anyone can use common since and figure out that it works almost identical to the way a safety harness works. If it will reduce the forces applied to a anchor how in the hell would it not do the same for the climber?....Let's start emailin safety harness companies and see if they'll okay their lanyard in place of a screamer! With that said, That doesn't mean you should do stupid stuff and it'll save your life if you decide to jump head first off a saddle platform. It doesn't mean you'll survive a 6ft fall. Even if the absorber works you could break your back. Some of you go to great lengths to try to be right ALL the time. And on top of that you guys gang up and are extremely rude when doing so..love to meet some day.....I'm over the whole thing but you guys just keep on....it's exhausting

Seriously!!!!

Let me see, a static line with no ability to absorb shock, or a static line with some level ( although unknown) to absorb shock. I’ll take the latter.

 

[Weldabeast]

 

[Islandshooter]

You just made my mornin with that!!!!! Hahahahaha

 

[philsanchez76]

I’ll be interested to see if Yates has anything different to say since they are still producing screamers and it seems DMM may not be. Either way, I will still be using my in line screamer this year combined with my dynamic rope tether to “reduce” some of the force. I think the important part about these threads has been the call to seriously think about your system, your process and the level of risk you wish to accept.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

So what if it weakens a couple of stitches in the screamer over continued use?

Buy a new one once it starts to tear… big deal! It’s $20

It’s not going to hurt to use it. Its going to reduce impact force in a fall.

With all the other crap used out of spec by people on this site and the sketchy DIY crap and here you are making a big deal about a screamer.

This whole pissing match is stupid.

If it weakens a row or two of stitches and you are using it during your hunt will it still absorb enough force to offset the additional slack that it will introduce to your system as it tears away? These are questions that I cannot answer and unless you are taking multiple screamers with you, buying a new one later won’t help me today. Again I am not saying don’t use it. I am saying that wild country never told me I can’t use my ropeman one on a 11mm lanyard as a rope grab. They did say that it’s not intended to be used in a fall arrest system. So I keep my system free of slack and it’s technically being used within spec. Even still I prefer my sewn prusik loop. It’s stronger and lighter. I’ve seen it hold up to worse case scenario falls. I created this post purely for information from the manufacturer of screamers. I did not create it as a debate on whether to use them or not. That is solely on the person hunting. If Yates says yes “our product works as advertised on all climbing systems” then that’s great people should all use them. If they say no it won’t work as intended in this manner, than if you want to use them anyway, that’s awesome. Either way it gives all of us an honest response since there is no testing or data to prove if they will make falling in a saddle safer or not. Again I am not interested in an argument. I did this solely so that all of us have access to reliable information. Do with that info what you will

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I can already tell you what their going to say. It wasn't designed for this be we do not recommend it blah blah blah...same as a bunch of other companies that we use out of spec equipment for..... But I think anyone can use common since and figure out that it works almost identical to the way a safety harness works. If it will reduce the forces applied to a anchor how in the hell would it not do the same for the climber?....Let's start emailin safety harness companies and see if they'll okay their lanyard in place of a screamer! With that said, That doesn't mean you should do stupid stuff and it'll save your life if you decide to jump head first off a saddle platform. It doesn't mean you'll survive a 6ft fall. Even if the absorber works you could break your back. Some of you go to great lengths to try to be right ALL the time. And on top of that you guys gang up and are extremely rude when doing so..love to meet some day.....I'm over the whole thing but you guys just keep on....it's exhausting

I am not being rude to you sir. I don’t know you from Adam. All I said was that information in the video is not accurate. You compared falling on a screamer in a saddle to FBH and FAS lanyards because they both contain break away stitching. FBH are set in such a way that the load transfer is between the lower body, legs, hips and even into the upper torso at the chest and shoulders. It also keeps us upright so that less pressure is put onto our spines. Those lanyards typically have some type of dynamic webbing, bungees or cover in collaboration with the break away stitching. They are different that just a screamer and the harness is different than a saddle. I am sure you know that because you reposted a video about falls (that I posted weeks ago). I am not interested in arguing with you about if you should or shouldn’t use a screamer. If they make you feel better and more confident that is good. But as a representative of a manufacturer or distributor and also as a successful you tube influencer, I think you should list the differences and potential negatives. Not just what you think will happen if you fell with a screamer. If what I said came across as rude, I will apologize to you publicly on this post as well as the other post. But as I have stated, I am doing this solely for information purposes. Who knows maybe Yates has done research and will back your videos suggestions. If that is the case, I will gladly say that I was wrong and thank you for making us all safer. If not, I am willing to send some saddles, a couple screamers, a couple tethersto SGS or some other accredited 3rd party lab and do some testing if it makes us all safer. I believe Dario even was willing to take up donations so we could do these exact types of testing recently but no one offered to contribute to the endeavor. So I don’t think we should be willing to condemn your idea but I also don’t think anyone should endorse it without knowing the potential risks and failures. Again I am sorry if you feel attacked by me, that is not my intentions good sir

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I’ll be interested to see if Yates has anything different to say since they are still producing screamers and it seems DMM may not be. Either way, I will still be using my in line screamer this year combined with my dynamic rope tether to “reduce” some of the force. I think the important part about these threads has been the call to seriously think about your system, your process and the level of risk you wish to accept.

I agree with everything you did here and I think it’s great that you are also using a dynamic rope in collaboration with the screamer. I’m not for or against anything that makes us safer. I created this post to get away from the arguments that started on the other one. This is solely for information and I too am interested in seeing what Yates says because their website claims “any climbing system”. So this will help us understand their take on our use. Nothing more, nothing less

 

[philsanchez76]

I agree with everything you did here and I think it’s great that you are also using a dynamic rope in collaboration with the screamer. I’m not for or against anything that makes us safer. I created this post to get away from the arguments that started on the other one. This is solely for information and I too am interested in seeing what Yates says because their website claims “any climbing system”. So this will help us understand their take on our use. Nothing more, nothing less

This is the way I took your post and I’m always happy to have more information. I’d rather have more info and be proved wrong (oh no! I have to admit I was wrong!!! Is there anything worse on a public forum?!!) than to continue in my current way of thinking. Also shoutout to @Red Beard for being a true man!

 

[Zacrowsl]

I am not being rude to you sir. I don’t know you from Adam. All I said was that information in the video is not accurate. You compared falling on a screamer in a saddle to FBH and FAS lanyards because they both contain break away stitching. FBH are set in such a way that the load transfer is between the lower body, legs, hips and even into the upper torso at the chest and shoulders. It also keeps us upright so that less pressure is put onto our spines. Those lanyards typically have some type of dynamic webbing, bungees or cover in collaboration with the break away stitching. They are different that just a screamer and the harness is different than a saddle. I am sure you know that because you reposted a video about falls (that I posted weeks ago). I am not interested in arguing with you about if you should or shouldn’t use a screamer. If they make you feel better and more confident that is good. But as a representative of a manufacturer or distributor and also as a successful you tube influencer, I think you should list the differences and potential negatives. Not just what you think will happen if you fell with a screamer. If what I said came across as rude, I will apologize to you publicly on this post as well as the other post. But as I have stated, I am doing this solely for information purposes. Who knows maybe Yates has done research and will back your videos suggestions. If that is the case, I will gladly say that I was wrong and thank you for making us all safer. If not, I am willing to send some saddles, a couple screamers, a couple tethersto SGS or some other accredited 3rd party lab and do some testing if it makes us all safer. I believe Dario even was willing to take up donations so we could do these exact types of testing recently but no one offered to contribute to the endeavor. So I don’t think we should be willing to condemn your idea but I also don’t think anyone should endorse it without knowing the potential risks and failures. Again I am sorry if you feel attacked by me, that is not my intentions good sir

Not you specifically but it was not handle properly by certain individuals last night. And yeah some were absolutely rude. And i'll just let you know i've been in contact with a saddle manufacturer who is going to ask his rope guy if he can test it.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Not you specifically but it was not handle properly by certain individuals last night. And yeah some were absolutely rude. And i'll just let you know i've been in contact with a saddle manufacturer who is going to ask his rope guy if he can test it.

That is awesome… I was thinking more along the lines of an independent 3rd party testing lab. I can manipulate tests that I have control over to some extent. At a 3 rd party lab they will literally hook them up in standard attachment methods and drop them the way they do in standardized testing. My thought is the 220 lbs maximum force arrest. The drop is usually around 4’ at 1.5:1 fall factor and uses a scale to measure the force generated. The goal is to remain under 1800 lbs. maybe use the exact same saddle model (4 individual saddles). A normal drop on a static rope with no screamer. A drop on a dynamic rope with no screamer. A drop on a static rope with a screamer and a drop on a dynamic rope with a screamer. If the screamer generates less than 900 lbs on both the static and the dynamic then we know it will in fact soften the fall. If it only works to that extent with the dynamic rope or not at all, then we will all know if it’s truly safer or not. In my mind reducing force by 200 lbs in a fall that generates 1600 lbs of force is a false sense of security because you’re still going to be badly injured or possibly killed. So a little is better than nothing is not the answer I want. Either it fully works and is safe, or it’s not. If it’s not, find a different way up the tree, or accept the risks but at least everyone should know the truth about those risks. I hope what I am saying makes sense

 

[320thmp]

I just got off the phone with REI and the screamer is used in the exact application we would use it in for a hunting situation. A 200 ln body will generate 1800 pounds of force in a 6 foot fall, the screamer activates at 500 pounds and reduces your ft pounds by 900, so it cuts that fall force in half in this given situation. Combine this with a good dynamic rope and the fact a 6ft fall is over kill for someone using a saddle or an RC harness and its perfectly safe in a fall. The runner used in the screamer is rated at 5000 lbs also. These are FACTS... To add... anytime you fall your going to get hurt or jarred very hard. A safety system is designed so you dont hit the ground at mach 1 and die... Your likely gonna get hurt but youll live.. thats the key

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I just got off the phone with REI and the screamer is used in the exact application we would use it in for a hunting situation. A 200 ln body will generate 1800 pounds of force in a 6 foot fall, the screamer activates at 500 pounds and reduces your ft pounds by 900, so it cuts that fall force in half in this given situation. Combine this with a good dynamic rope and the fact a 6ft fall is over kill for someone using a saddle or an RC harness and its perfectly safe in a fall. The runner used in the screamer is rated at 5000 lbs also. These are FACTS... To add... anytime you fall your going to get hurt or jarred very hard. A safety system is designed so you dont hit the ground at mach 1 and die... Your likely gonna get hurt but youll live.. thats the key

I read this response on the other post as well. I appreciate your input. I have a few questions when you spoke with REI did you give them a fall factor or just a specified 6’ fall? Because those determine the force generated as opposed to the video we have saved on the forum discussing forces generated. Also you said they said it works exactly in our application. Does REI now sell saddle hunting gear? I spoke to them at length about saddles and why they should keep ropeman 1’s and Kong ducks in the store as opposed to just in line. The “climbing expert” had no idea what a rope man 1 was let alone what saddle hunting was or how it was applicable. So that I can accept this as facts, I need to know where your anchor point was determined to be in your fall, what fall factor was generated, was this on a dynamic rope or a static rope? These all play critical facts in the response they should have given you and if they didn’t ask these questions, I would not assume that the local REI salesman even knew what a Yates screamer was. Again not arguing I am strictly asking so that if someone reads your post, they have all the details

 

[jvarn81]

Some backpeddling from the safety police? Where is Kyler?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Some backpeddling from the safety police? Where is Kyler?

What do you mean?

 

[Weldabeast]

I have no dog in this fight.... Just reading along for entertainment.

I wouldn't trust an rei employee....u seen those weirdo soy boys? I've never rock climbed but just because I saddle hunt that doesn't give me the insight to comment on any kind of rock climbing questions... So why would a rock climbing guy that's never saddle hunted be able to answer a question about it? Sure.... They are similar but very much 2 different things all together

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I have no dog in this fight.... Just reading along for entertainment.

I wouldn't trust an rei employee....u seen those weirdo soy boys? I've never rock climbed but just because I saddle hunt that doesn't give me the insight to comment on any kind of rock climbing questions... So why would a rock climbing guy that's never saddle hunted be able to answer a question about it? Sure.... They are similar but very much 2 different things all together

But Weldabeast man don’t you know Becky at the local REI knows everything? Lol haven’t you seen the videos of her running down deer with her ebike and making perfect double lung shots at 50 yards when the deer hops? Becky is by far the smartest rock climbing, saddle hunting, ebike riding, deer slaying saleswoman ever! Lol