Singer 15-91 vs Singer 15-90 power?

[sojourner]

So I am knee deep into using my, new to me, singer 15-91. It has the direct drive “potted” motor. The 15-90 is almost identical, except it has an external motor connected with a belt.

I have heard people recommend the 91 because it can sew through heavier material, is stronger. And people saying it does just fine for domestic sewing.

Is the 91 better than the 90 at punching threads through thick material (making saddles)? What If one replaced the motor on the 90 with a new, more powerful, motor? Would the power nod go to the 90?

Why I am asking, well, 2 is 1 and 1 is 0, and I am looking for a second 91 or a 90. It would seem an external motor would be easier to keep going by replacing it. The potted motor, I have not seen any new ones available.

Thoughts? Real world experience on the differences in power?

 

[jhunter13]

The "punching" through you mention on the potted motors is better vs the belt driven 90s. Every now and then youll need to hand turn it to get it started but once the motor gets going the 91s have sewn through everything Ive tried to date (bottom of my saddle builds are 2 layers of 1 inch webbing, 2 layers of 1.75 susspension webbing plus 2 layers of 500d cordura). You are correct though, the motors on the 90s are much easier to replace and find. Id say it comes down to personal preference and what your sewing. Niether machine was intented to be used on 4 layers of webbing plus two layers of cordura. If you want something that is going to handle continuous heavy stitching for saddle building Id look for an industrial machine. If your looking for the occasional use here and there the 91s are hard to beat.

 

[sojourner]

The "punching" through you mention on the potted motors is better vs the belt driven 90s. Every now and then youll need to hand turn it to get it started but once the motor gets going the 91s have sewn through everything Ive tried to date (bottom of my saddle builds are 2 layers of 1 inch webbing, 2 layers of 1.75 susspension webbing plus 2 layers of 500d cordura). You are correct though, the motors on the 90s are much easier to replace and find. Id say it comes down to personal preference and what your sewing. Niether machine was intented to be used on 4 layers of webbing plus two layers of cordura. If you want something that is going to handle continuous heavy stitching for saddle building Id look for an industrial machine. If your looking for the occasional use here and there the 91s are hard to beat.

Thanks. I don’t have the need or the $ for an industrial, although I do have the desire for one. For personal use only and just looking to make a saddle or two per year (tops) like your latest saddle build, webbing aiders, maybe some pouches and packs, fixing / mending worn clothes and possibly sew up a “stormy Kromer” trapper hat. Those “one size fits most” headgear don’t work for my melon.

In all honesty, I think I will put more hours during my first year figuring out and learning how to sew and what materials to use, then onto designing/copying/building some of the above until I feel fairly proficient. Then after that, the machines will not get as much usage, only when I have to fix or replace something.

From what you’re saying and my needs, the 91 would be better. I am still on the lookout for a good deal on another 91. Just waiting for a good deal to pop up.

Thanks!

 

[bj139]

The 91 has a 1/2 inch presser foot lift, more than many industrials. It was designed for farm repair of bridles and such and also dresses. Hand operating the hand wheel here and there is a small price to pay for mostly electric powered sewing. Remember, Betsy Ross used to hand sew saddles a stitch at a time.

 

[jhunter13]

On the 91s you can pull up on the presser bar lifter and get another 1/8- 1/4" depending on your presser foot tension setting.

Ive also found if you take the potted motor apart, pull out the armature and clean up the commutater/brushes they have a bit more power all around.

 

[sojourner]

Well, in the interest of science, since I already have two 15-91 singers with the gear drive potted motors, I opted for a belt driven 15-90 clone. Which will be the control and which will be the test?

Totally free. Affluent area of NJ. The person left it on the porch for me. Found it on FB marketplace.

Very clean. It runs, light works, needle goes up and down, pedal works, does not look like it is missing anything, the belt is not toothed if that means anything, no marks on motor pertaining to power. It seems way smoother in moving them wheel, the thread tension and presser feet adjustment than either of my singers.

Probably due to much less use sewing.

Bobbin tire needs replaced, wire pinched in one area. Case has that old attic smell to it. Color is “pretty”. Going to be my first refurb project I think.

I think I need parental controls put on FB marketplace and Craigslist.

 

[sojourner]

Thanks [mention]jhunter13 [/mention] and [mention]bj139 [/mention] for sharing your wealth of information.

 

[sojourner]

The 91 has a 1/2 inch presser foot lift, more than many industrials. It was designed for farm repair of bridles and such and also dresses. Hand operating the hand wheel here and there is a small price to pay for mostly electric powered sewing. Remember, Betsy Ross used to hand sew saddles a stitch at a time.

Turning the hand wheel is a good point.

Doing all this sewing machine research, I see in the old days, people had treadle machines (I guess get exercise and sew at the same time) and hand crank machines. With all that, I am not going to stress about hand operating here and there. As long as i can get good stitches through the fabrics I intend (saddles), I’ll call it good.

 

[bj139]

Well, in the interest of science, since I already have two 15-91 singers with the gear drive potted motors, I opted for a belt driven 15-90 clone. Which will be the control and which will be the test?

Totally free. Affluent area of NJ. The person left it on the porch for me. Found it on FB marketplace.

Very clean. It runs, light works, needle goes up and down, pedal works, does not look like it is missing anything, the belt is not toothed if that means anything, no marks on motor pertaining to power. It seems way smoother in moving them wheel, the thread tension and presser feet adjustment than either of my singers.

Probably due to much less use sewing.

Bobbin tire needs replaced, wire pinched in one area. Case has that old attic smell to it. Color is “pretty”. Going to be my first refurb project I think.

I think I need parental controls put on FB marketplace and Craigslist.

Nice machine for free. I had that saved on Facebook. You may find the presser foot lift is only the standard 1/4 inch and not the 1/2 inch of the Singer 51. In the olden days, treadles and handcrank machines were popular because they did not have electricity.

 

[bj139]

Well, in the interest of science, since I already have two 15-91 singers with the gear drive potted motors, I opted for a belt driven 15-90 clone. Which will be the control and which will be the test?

Totally free. Affluent area of NJ. The person left it on the porch for me. Found it on FB marketplace.

Very clean. It runs, light works, needle goes up and down, pedal works, does not look like it is missing anything, the belt is not toothed if that means anything, no marks on motor pertaining to power. It seems way smoother in moving them wheel, the thread tension and presser feet adjustment than either of my singers.

Probably due to much less use sewing.

Bobbin tire needs replaced, wire pinched in one area. Case has that old attic smell to it. Color is “pretty”. Going to be my first refurb project I think.

I think I need parental controls put on FB marketplace and Craigslist.

With the right sized belt you can drive that with a servo motor and have real control.

 

[sojourner]

With the right sized belt you can drive that with a servo motor and have real control.

I have seen your video. The only reason for me to do that is If the clone has the same presser foot lift as the 91, and I haven’t checked that. And doing that (higher power motor with servo) would give me more “capability” for punching through fabric than the 15-91.

Either that, or I try to find another 19-51 in case (and not on a table).

I am not trying to substitute for an industrial. Just want a backup, plus, I like the idea that [mention]jhunter13 [/mention]has with having different tension settings on the different machines.

 

[wingnut]

That looks like a well made machine. Not that you have to have it but I added a servo motor to my Singer 111 for a little more than $100.

 

[sojourner]

That looks like a well made machine. Not that you have to have it but I added a servo motor to my Singer 111 for a little more than $100.

It definitely is not the same class as a 111. I have to look closer, but I don’t think the belt is toothed. Not sure a non-toothed belt would work well with a more powerful motor. That said, it would be nice to have servo control and more power.

 

[wingnut]

Mine runs a smooth belt. The Industrial shop that went over mine told me not to run the belt too tight. Control is why I went with a servo motor. Mine was set up with a clutch with the treadle pedal and when it took off it was on a rampage, out of control. With the servo I can ease down on the pedal and it just chugs along. The pic you showed of the bottom of your machine with all the steel shafts shows it was made to last.

 

[sojourner]

My belt is non-toothed. The machine looks like it has almost never been used. One thing I don’t like is that the light to the cord is routed up inside the sewing machine. On my 15-91’s the cord is routed outside.

I may keep it an route cord outside. Not sure yet. I still have to rehab my second 15-91 first.

But yes, seeing the videos on YouTube of servo motors and needle positioners makes me envious.

 

[bj139]

My belt is non-toothed. The machine looks like it has almost never been used. One thing I don’t like is that the light to the cord is routed up inside the sewing machine. On my 15-91’s the cord is routed outside.

I may keep it an route cord outside. Not sure yet. I still have to rehab my second 15-91 first.

But yes, seeing the videos on YouTube of servo motors and needle positioners makes me envious.

Uh oh. Better quit at 5 machines. Plastic ones don't count.

Toothed or non-toothed? Will a Chevy or a Ford get me to the store better. Doesn't matter as far as I have seen.

 

[sojourner]

Uh oh. Better quit at 5 machines. Plastic ones don't count.

Toothed or non-toothed? Will a Chevy or a Ford get me to the store better. Doesn't matter as far as I have seen.

I checked and the 15-91 presser foot lifts higher then the 15-90 clone I have.

Well, I only have 3 metal machines, guess I have to check FB marketplace again.

 

[bj139]

I checked and the 15-91 presser foot lifts higher then the 15-90 clone I have.

Well, I only have 3 metal machines, guess I have to check FB marketplace again.

The Japanese 15 clones I have seen all have limited foot lift. The 15-90 may be the same high lift as the 15-91.

 

[bj139]

The Japanese 15 clones I have seen all have limited foot lift. The 15-90 may be the same high lift as the 15-91.

Regarding the foot lift: Both machines should only be able to sew the same thickness since you are limited by the needle bar coming down and hitting the foot, not the total foot lift.

 

[bj139]

I did a couple of videos on request. Thread upper tension seems to be the limiting factor on thread size. Industrial machines have multiple tension dials to sew heavy. I got more tension with a double wrap.