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Soft shackle to replace Delta Link - Thoughts?

goody94

goody94

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
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Location
Lancaster, PA
DISCLAIMER: None of this has been tested AT ALL. I don’t recommend doing it or trying it. I just would like to have a discussion with more experienced members on the merit of soft shackles and safe usages.



Probably won’t do it.. but thought I’d float the idea here. Saw the idea in a thread from 2019, haven’t really seen it since. Interested to hear what you guys think about replacing the delta link with a soft shackle.

I put some 1 inch tubular webbing around my 1/4 inch softshackle out of Amsteel. My thought was if I began to see wear in the tubular webbing I could replace it easily and it prevents direct contact with the Amsteel itself.

Thoughts? Good idea? Terrible idea?

- these guys highline with soft shackles and the break strength is ridiculous. The larger one broke at 14000 lbs / 64KN. So strength isn’t a concern...
 

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i've been wondering the same thing, except to replace various carabiners instead of the D-link. like the bridge to tether connection - another place to cut out some metal. theoretically you could have an ALLfabric/amsteel setup without a single carabiner. I dont know enough about soft shackles yet so this may be a terrible idea, not sure.
 
thedutchtouch said:
i've been wondering the same thing, except to replace various carabiners instead of the D-link. like the bridge to tether connection - another place to cut out some metal. theoretically you could have an ALLfabric/amsteel setup without a single carabiner. I dont know enough about soft shackles yet so this may be a terrible idea, not sure.
Click to expand...
Thought about that as well. There are trade offs for that though, in that your bridge would not slide as easy which could be critical in a shot situation tho..

I’m skeptical of doing anything that isn’t tried and true, but I’m also not sure why it wouldn’t work. However, the margin for error is 0 when your 20 feet up...
 
goody94 said:
Probably won’t do it.. but thought I’d float the idea here. Saw the idea in a thread from 2019, haven’t really seen it since. Interested to hear what you guys think about replacing the delta link with a soft shackle.

I put some 1 inch tubular webbing around my 1/4 inch softshackle out of Amsteel. My thought was if I began to see wear in the tubular webbing I could replace it easily and it prevents direct contact with the Amsteel itself.

Thoughts? Good idea? Terrible idea?

- these guys highline with soft shackles and the break strength is ridiculous. The larger one broke at 14000 lbs / 64KN. So strength isn’t a concern...
Click to expand...
You must of recently watched this too? So wild! Rope swinging on soft shackles.
 
The main thing I can think of is the amsteel getting very frayed very fast. Even with a sheath the ball would fray fast I see in my mind, I also prefer to have the extra weight on the end of my ropes that I throw around the tree truck. Little twigs and branches on the back side of the trunk can catch up ur ropes sometimes when u are trying to throw them around. My soft shackles are diy so maybe they aren't the bestest of quality built as far as smoothness of operation.....with that said I really wanted to use them and replace a biner or 2 but in the end getting it undone was a little too tedious. I keep them in the tote of hunt stuff I keep in the truck so I can have and use if I loose a biner or some other situation that calls for them. Really useful tool and worth having...but in the end for me I opted out because of the tediousness getting to operate vs the easier biner.
 
I have made hundreds of soft shackles and use them a lot for hammock camping. I tried them on my saddle and they are too tedious for me when I have cold hands. I wouldn’t worry too much about the fraying. They will easily last a season and they are easy and cheap to make and replace every year.
 
My concern with a soft shackle would be the difficulty of trying to pull the rope down after you rappel. I found it hard enough to do when pulling it through a delta link.
 
Amsteel doesn’t hold up well to friction so pulling the rope down might slowest weaken the shackle but melting a few fibers at a time.
 
I’m assuming the delta link being replaced by a soft shackle is for one sticking.

Advancing your tether up the tree is a hugely dynamic series of movements (pull this way to get over that twig, pull that way to get over this knot, etc). At any one of these points a soft shackle could come undone. If it does, best case scenario is that it completely disengages and you notice it is obviously undone. Worst case scenario is that it becomes partially undone and you don’t notice. It comes completely undone when you put weight into it.

I think a quick link is capable of handling the dynamic movements that I mentioned but I even have my reservations about that screw gate as well. I constantly check it after every move.

what is the soft shackle replacement resolving?
 
_Dario said:
I’m assuming the delta link being replaced by a soft shackle is for one sticking.

Advancing your tether up the tree is a hugely dynamic series of movements (pull this way to get over that twig, pull that way to get over this knot, etc). At any one of these points a soft shackle could come undone. If it does, best case scenario is that it completely disengages and you notice it is obviously undone. Worst case scenario is that it becomes partially undone and you don’t notice. It comes completely undone when you put weight into it.

I think a quick link is capable of handling the dynamic movements that I mentioned but I even have my reservations about that screw gate as well. I constantly check it after every move.

what is the soft shackle replacement resolving?
Click to expand...
If this forum proves anything it’s that everything is worth questioning.. lol

Joking aside.. here are some potential benefits -

- quicker to go around branches (probably minimally tho) .. maybe save 15 seconds per branch?
- less metal
- potentially safer because there wouldn’t be any sort of crossloading like a carabiner or delta link
- freaky strong (64 KN strong)
- lighter weight / more packable

Cons -
- not proven
- can fray
- somewhat tedious with cold hands especially
- I don’t foresee a situation where it would come undone but I suppose it’s a possibility.. mine are typically difficult to undo
- the delta link slides through nicely for pull down
 
goody94 said:
If this forum proves anything it’s that everything is worth questioning.. lol

Joking aside.. here are some potential benefits -

- quicker to go around branches (probably minimally tho) .. maybe save 15 seconds per branch?
- less metal
- potentially safer because there wouldn’t be any sort of crossloading like a carabiner or delta link
- freaky strong (64 KN strong)
- lighter weight / more packable

Cons -
- not proven
- can fray
- somewhat tedious with cold hands especially
- I don’t foresee a situation where it would come undone but I suppose it’s a possibility.. mine are typically difficult to undo
- the delta link slides through nicely for pull down
Click to expand...

here are some additional talking points:

-is a 15 second per branch time saving even worth pursuing? I personally have not unscrewed my quick link, gone around a branch, rescrewed the quick link and thought “man, I wish that was faster”.

-just being metal isn’t really a con to me. A metal clanking noise is, but I wrapped my quick link in self adhesive wrap. I also haven’t had it clang into anything yet to make a noise

-I think the side loading thing is way overblown when you consider the bend radius and also the direction of the forces from the rope. But I agree this is a pro for amsteel.

A couple more items as mentioned is that amsteel can melt quickly and I can see this being a potential problem over time pulling your rope down if it’s got stuck up a little bit with extra friction.

but again my biggest concern is the shackle coming undone unnoticed in the dark or some other set of circumstances where you don’t notice. It’s really not even a semi permanent connection. And you can make a soft shackle semi permanent but that would negate the time savings benefit.

I think it’s worth playing around with and I think it is marginally better than a lap link lol.
 
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I’ve used them for a few years for tree climbing with no problems. I make my so it is somewhat difficult to open to reduce possibility of them opening accidentally, highly unlikely as the eye would have to be snagged opened. I always cover them, sometimes with heat resistant cover, the right length of this can also help to keep the eye closed.
To replace the delta, a soft shackle could be attached to something like a low friction ring for easy retrieval, it should be longer than shown, but my longer ones are being used on my work harness. I’ve used longer ones for friction hitches to eliminate a carabiner, or can replace the carabiner with regular friction hitch.
EF8E87AD-7752-42E2-9273-E890DDD42C89.jpeg
 
Prediction: this thread will play a material role in someone’s decision making process on using soft shackles for life support, who winds up dead or experiencing a life changing injury.

no judgements here. Just reminding people of the power of the internet.
 
kyler1945 said:
Prediction: this thread will play a material role in someone’s decision making process on using soft shackles for life support, who winds up dead or experiencing a life changing injury.

no judgements here. Just reminding people of the power of the internet.
Click to expand...
I’m fine with moderators shutting the thread down. But there’s much on this forum that could be said the same of.

I’ll add a disclaimer in the OP and I’ll leave it to moderators if they think it should be shut down.

I’d be more concerned about guys using lap links as a result of the THP video.. that is much more sketchy IMO.
 
No part of using a soft shackle instead of a delta or oval link will ever be better IMHO
 
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