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Soft shackle to replace Delta Link - Thoughts?

This topic has been broached here before. My stance is that, while they may be strong enough, I'm not going to use anything non-locking in my system that directly affects life support. That includes soft shackles, wire gate biners and lap links. Consider the possible failures of your gear and be as safe as you can out there.
 
goody94 said:
I’m fine with moderators shutting the thread down. But there’s much on this forum that could be said the same of.

I’ll add a disclaimer in the OP and I’ll leave it to moderators if they think it should be shut down.

I’d be more concerned about guys using lap links as a result of the THP video.. that is much more sketchy IMO.
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Not asking or advocating for any sort of regulation here. I’m simply trying to remind people of the power of what they are doing.
 
Oh jeeze....

Ok everyone...why? What problem are we trying to solve? Weight, ease of setup, noise? Come on. None of those are so bad you can't just use the correct hardware.

Things are just getting stupid. Someone is going to die.
 
boyne bowhunter said:
This topic has been broached here before. My stance is that, while they may be strong enough, I'm not going to use anything non-locking in my system that directly affects life support. That includes soft shackles, wire gate biners and lap links. Consider the possible failures of your gear and be as safe as you can out there.
Click to expand...
I use a wire gate form my aider to stirrup connection. I'm pretty much staring at it the whole time my weight is in it. Probably not the smarted thing but having to unlock and close gate during my climb multiple times is a pain in the butt. I originally made the soft shackles for this application
 
kyler1945 said:
Prediction: this thread will play a material role in someone’s decision making process on using soft shackles for life support, who winds up dead or experiencing a life changing injury.

no judgements here. Just reminding people of the power of the internet.
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Not seeing the logic of this, what part of tree climbing can you noob, gumbyproof ? A lot of armchair quarterbacking with the negativity.
 
Vtbow said:
Oh jeeze....

Ok everyone...why? What problem are we trying to solve? Weight, ease of setup, noise? Come on. None of those are so bad you can't just use the correct hardware.

Things are just getting stupid. Someone is going to die.
Click to expand...
Truthfully, I just never liked the delta link. I find it cumbersome and think there has to be a better way. I don't think this is it. But just because everyone uses a delta link doesn't make it the 'right thing'. Everyone is using amsteel bridges on their saddles, and I wouldn't call them the best thing... Seeing the 'lap link' on the THP video got me thinking about other alternatives that could be used, and I circled back to this. I think its worth exploring at least.
 
I asked this question 3-4 years ago and got a resounding no for safety and “why tho?” Reasons.

My concern is not random, or grounded in “arm chair quarterbacking”.

my concern is grounded in the step change in information sharing on climbing equipment around saddle hunting. The exact same question posted today gets an overwhelming yes response for various reasons.

You could respond to that with “well yeh, see the people who said no don’t do it don’t know what they’re talking about either!”….

Yeh, that’s my point. This is a general topic which was very clear guidelines on hardware. It’s easy to not die using the right stuff. This doesn’t mean you can’t push limits or be creative. It’s that most people aren’t going to search back for the thread three years ago for the “no” opinion.

there will be people who assume that this is a generally settled topic, and that soft shackles are a perfectly viable option here, generally. That will leak into their decision making.

again, not for policing speech. Just trying to get people to think about What they’re doing, and the context people will take what they’re saying. The goal is clearer communication, and better understanding of risks and tradeoffs. Not bubble wrapping everything.

ten seconds of thought changes a lot of perspective sometimes.
 
i've found this thread to be informative. i likely will never end up switchingto a soft shakle to replace any quick links or carabiners, but good discussion.
 
I wouldn’t use a soft shackle… hell, I’m on the fence about using a delta link because I haven’t done the research or spoke to Kyler :smile: (just poking fun)

I run 25’ of rope through a figure 8 on a bite and then rappel.

I don’t understand how a delta link is not cross loading, but it would be on a carabiner? Any good videos or reads on this topic?
 
Mschmeiske said:
I wouldn’t use a soft shackle… hell, I’m on the fence about using a delta link because I haven’t done the research or spoke to Kyler :smile: (just poking fun)

I run 25’ of rope through a figure 8 on a bite and then rappel.

I don’t understand how a delta link is not cross loading, but it would be on a carabiner? Any good videos or reads on this topic?
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I 100% endorse this....with 2" of tail and a barrel backup on that 8... :)

Seriously the most sound straightforward answer and post on this. Period. Don't want hardware? There ya go!
 
Vtbow said:
I 100% endorse this....with 2" of tail and a barrel backup on that 8... :)

Seriously the most sound straightforward answer and post on this. Period. Don't want hardware? There ya go!
Click to expand...

Thats exactly how I have it! With 3-4” of tail, but who’s counting…. I guess I’ll stick with it!
 
Mschmeiske said:
I don’t understand how a delta link is not cross loading, but it would be on a carabiner? Any good videos or reads on this topic?
Click to expand...
If I hold a quick link and a biner in a dump pouch, I can hardly notice a difference. And yet, held in hand, the difference is perceptible enough I tell myself that if I had to carry 100 of one or the other, I’d rather lift the carabiner box. Something about that little bit of extra metal heft in the quick link makes it seem more secure. (Now mind, that’s not rational, that’s just the goofy psychology I employ at 30’ above turf when switching to rappel.) I have been curious about why it’s not cross loading on a quick link?
 
Marmuzz said:
If I hold a quick link and a biner in a dump pouch, I can hardly notice a difference. And yet, held in hand, the difference is perceptible enough I tell myself that if I had to carry 100 of one or the other, I’d rather lift the carabiner box. Something about that little bit of extra metal heft in the quick link makes it seem more secure. (Now mind, that’s not rational, that’s just the goofy psychology I employ at 30’ above turf when switching to rappel.) I have been curious about why it’s not cross loading on a quick link?
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https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/oval-quick-link-why-is-it-safe.35589/ that thread helped me with some of the same crossload/safety questions
 
You know someone is gonna build their own soft shackle and they might not do it right. I know I did that with an amsteel aider when I first got into saddles. I realized my mistake before I got hurt but one thing I do know is there ain't nobody out there making there own Delta link. They may connect to it by tying their scaffold knot incorrectly though.
 
_Dario said:
here are some additional talking points:

-is a 15 second per branch time saving even worth pursuing? I personally have not unscrewed my quick link, gone around a branch, rescrewed the quick link and thought “man, I wish that was faster”.

-just being metal isn’t really a con to me. A metal clanking noise is, but I wrapped my quick link in self adhesive wrap. I also haven’t had it clang into anything yet to make a noise

-I think the side loading thing is way overblown when you consider the bend radius and also the direction of the forces from the rope. But I agree this is a pro for amsteel.

A couple more items as mentioned is that amsteel can melt quickly and I can see this being a potential problem over time pulling your rope down if it’s got stuck up a little bit with extra friction.

but again my biggest concern is the shackle coming undone unnoticed in the dark or some other set of circumstances where you don’t notice. It’s really not even a semi permanent connection. And you can make a soft shackle semi permanent but that would negate the time savings benefit.

I think it’s worth playing around with and I think it is marginally better than a lap link lol.
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The more and more I've read I was definitely leaning towards a soft shackle. Until the above poster said "undone unnoticed in the dark". If there is a 0.001 percent chance in the daylight that becomes exponential in the dark. How do you test your tether when first putting pressure on it? Sit down slowly or lean out slowly. Right? By the time you knew the soft shackle had come undone it would be too late. Still not sure of carbineer or delta or oval or pyramidal. Lol. But def not soft shackle.
 
Mschmeiske said:
I wouldn’t use a soft shackle… hell, I’m on the fence about using a delta link because I haven’t done the research or spoke to Kyler :smile: (just poking fun)

I run 25’ of rope through a figure 8 on a bite and then rappel.

I don’t understand how a delta link is not cross loading, but it would be on a carabiner? Any good videos or reads on this topic?
Click to expand...
Can you post a pic of this set up? Really interested.
 
FWIW I posted this thread within the first few months of learning to one stick. It’s now been two seasons and my system is refined.

I have no plans of using a soft shackle! My petzl delta link works fine :)
 
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