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Speed scouting vs scouting thoroughly on new pieces? How to be more efficient?

greg728

greg728

Active Member
SH Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
197
Location
Pennsylvania
This is a two part question of asking how to be more efficient while post season scouting as well as whether you prefer to speed scout vs scout more thoroughly? I’m still trying to hone in on my methods so just looking for different opinions. For me it depends on where the sign is located and whether or not I find areas I’m content with. I found that I don’t even pay attention to sign out in the open but areas near bedding with good security cover I tend to be very tedious with how I scout. I can find good looking sign but I’m never fully satisfied until I keep scouting to see where it begins and where it ends (I understand it’s never 100% accurate but I want as good of a picture as possible). I’m always wondering what’s over there? Sometimes there’s nothing but other times I end up finding even better sign that’s in areas probably less obvious as there’s no hunter sign and often times it’s not on a “hot” terrain feature we hear on all the podcasts.

Overall, if I can find legitimate buck bedding areas with high rubs and scrapes nearby as well as some doe bedding nearby then I’m going to scout that pretty thoroughly and try to identify when it’s being used, how it’s being used, how I can access it, wind map it, trees to hunt from, etc. Where I hunt food is everywhere but if I find buck bedding with good rubs within it and an isolated food source then I’m gonna be all over that as well. Where I tend to speed scout is when I don’t have known bedding or destination food sources down I’ll walk edges until I can find an area to trace back. I still feel like I’m spending too much time scouting too thoroughly as I feel like I should have more spots but the way my mind works is I’d rather have a good idea of how that areas being used than run through it and miss a lot of pieces to the puzzle.

How do you guys approach post season scouting on new pieces? Any feedback would be awesome
 
Nosaj said:
If things are going well I am scouting areas I will not hunt for a year or 2.
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I moved to a new area so the pieces I’m scouting I’m planning on hunting this coming season. Less than 6 months for me. Just out of curiosity can I ask why you wait so long to hunt areas you scout? Do you just want to know more about it before you hunt it?
 
greg728 said:
I moved to a new area so the pieces I’m scouting I’m planning on hunting this coming season. Less than 6 months for me. Just out of curiosity can I ask why you wait so long to hunt areas you scout? Do you just want to know more about it before you hunt
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I’m currently hunting a 70 acre private parcel. About 3/4 of it is ag field and the rest is swamp and hardwoods. This up coming season will be my 3rd season on it. My first season even with scouting was basically watching deer go places I wasn’t. I decided then to divide the huntable area into segments and learn a new piece of the property each off season. Makes it easier for my brain that way. I also figure it keeps the pressure low on the full parcel for the long term.
 
#1- Like most, I have multiple spots that are done, no scouting required.. just wait and see what my camera intel tells me if should dedicate time there during season, those are ready to go at any time if the right buck shows up, trees are prepped, camera locations dialed in.

#2- I have multiple locations that have been scouted on foot, ONX points saved and researched, the next step will be to hang a string of prospect cameras and see what happens, some of those won’t even be cell, and mite not get checked for several months.. maybe until after season. I won’t dedicate a lot time in these areas during an open season until I have a visual confirmation of something worth my time, so these spots mite not get hunted for one more year, so in that scenario it could take a full 2 years for me to hunt said spot after I first scouted it.

#3- Brand spanking new spots, I go through a lot of them, these I spend time on whenever I’m looking to kill time, summer, middle of winter, whatever, sometimes it may be during an open season when I only have half of a day to kill for some reason and I want to pop in a new spot quick…. sometimes I also look at these during season if I’ve already located a good target buck from a spot above, #1, and I want nothing else but him, basically keeps me in the woods while I’m waiting for the right time to go after the main target animal.

Long story short.. I always have a plan, and a backup plan, several back up plans. It takes many years of hard work to get to this point, having many spots that are already scouted and reliable, and more spots that are good candidates but waiting on the right camera intel to move forward with, either to hunt or spend more time and detailed scouting on… And then spots that are brand new and are at just the beginning of my lengthy process described above.. Many years ago one of the best seasons I’ve ever had, I located 3 different, target quality size bucks, all on big woods public, in different areas and I got to hunt all 3 of them that year, the first gave me the slip after much time and energy spent, the second one I missed after a couple of days of hunting just him, and the third one I shot the next day after missing #2, full disclosure I had also hunted him many days prior but that is exactly how that season ended.

If I were in your shoes and had advice to give, and I‘m assuming you‘re wanting something special and chasing big horns….it would be this.. don’t hunt the piece you just scouted recently, this season, if the sign isn’t there, only to justify the time spent on it already and because you feel it mite be easier to hunt because of said scouting..keep looking… even if it grenades this season, I know that sounds crazy but every minute spent in an area devoid of the right big buck sign is one less minute you have in an area that could be ripe with such sign, I would rather roll the dice and hunt/scout a brand new spot every day than grind on a spot with nothing there for me to kill. That attitude is how you find the good spots which ultimately move into my #1 category up above, I wasted way to many years not hunting like that and it sucked.. If you are a person that is hunkered down on a 100 acres of private waiting for a rutted up roaming buck to show then none of my advice will probably be of much use, if your hunting on public, and have access to lots of it, what I described is exactly how I operate. I’m burning shoe leather all week on new spots and some old, so far I’ve learned that I am severely out of shape and spent way too much time on the couch this winter!!! Hope this helps, it’s a basic description of how I allocate time to certain pieces of woods.. and move on from others.
 
Topdog said:
#1- Like most, I have multiple spots that are done, no scouting required.. just wait and see what my camera intel tells me if should dedicate time there during season, those are ready to go at any time if the right buck shows up, trees are prepped, camera locations dialed in.

#2- I have multiple locations that have been scouted on foot, ONX points saved and researched, the next step will be to hang a string of prospect cameras and see what happens, some of those won’t even be cell, and mite not get checked for several months.. maybe until after season. I won’t dedicate a lot time in these areas during an open season until I have a visual confirmation of something worth my time, so these spots mite not get hunted for one more year, so in that scenario it could take a full 2 years for me to hunt said spot after I first scouted it.

#3- Brand spanking new spots, I go through a lot of them, these I spend time on whenever I’m looking to kill time, summer, middle of winter, whatever, sometimes it may be during an open season when I only have half of a day to kill for some reason and I want to pop in a new spot quick…. sometimes I also look at these during season if I’ve already located a good target buck from a spot above, #1, and I want nothing else but him, basically keeps me in the woods while I’m waiting for the right time to go after the main target animal.

Long story short.. I always have a plan, and a backup plan, several back up plans. It takes many years of hard work to get to this point, having many spots that are already scouted and reliable, and more spots that are good candidates but waiting on the right camera intel to move forward with, either to hunt or spend more time and detailed scouting on… And then spots that are brand new and are at just the beginning of my lengthy process described above.. Many years ago one of the best seasons I’ve ever had, I located 3 different, target quality size bucks, all on big woods public, in different areas and I got to hunt all 3 of them that year, the first gave me the slip after much time and energy spent, the second one I missed after a couple of days of hunting just him, and the third one I shot the next day after missing #2, full disclosure I had also hunted him many days prior but that is exactly how that season ended.

If I were in your shoes and had advice to give, and I‘m assuming you‘re wanting something special and chasing big horns….it would be this.. don’t hunt the piece you just scouted recently, this season, if the sign isn’t there, only to justify the time spent on it already and because you feel it mite be easier to hunt because of said scouting..keep looking… even if it grenades this season, I know that sounds crazy but every minute spent in an area devoid of the right big buck sign is one less minute you have in an area that could be ripe with such sign, I would rather roll the dice and hunt/scout a brand new spot every day than grind on a spot with nothing there for me to kill. That attitude is how you find the good spots which ultimately move into my #1 category up above, I wasted way to many years not hunting like that and it sucked.. If you are a person that is hunkered down on a 100 acres of private waiting for a rutted up roaming buck to show then none of my advice will probably be of much use, if your hunting on public, and have access to lots of it, what I described is exactly how I operate. I’m burning shoe leather all week on new spots and some old, so far I’ve learned that I am severely out of shape and spent way too much time on the couch this winter!!! Hope this helps, it’s a basic description of how I allocate time to certain pieces of woods.. and move on from others.
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So this is going to be my 4th season coming up. My biggest thing I wanted to work on was getting better with post season scouting over winter into spring. I did this when I first started but wasn’t sure what I was looking at a lot of times and would just set up on any sign without realizing most of it was laid down at night. I’ve learned a lot since then but I’m still learning. The area I’ve scouted mainly has been very promising and the only reason I’ve continued scouting it is because I keep finding good sign. The piece is a very large chunk of public land close to 70,000 acres and I just e-scout smaller areas that look like will hold good buck bedding and go from there. I’m not paying attention to the size of the whole piece because I’m never going to learn it all. I’m just focused on the southern part of the land and within that breaking that down to smaller chunks that look promising on paper. When I went to check those smaller pieces out, some of them didn’t give me any sign of life but others were really good. I’ve found a bunch of buck bedding areas littered with waist to chest high rubs, and from those bedding areas rub lines of the same size coming from the bedding area and going towards doe bedding and a couple large community scrapes. All of these areas have a thermal advantage and will be tough to get in without the deer knowing. I also found a bunch of swamp bedding on the mountain that had good sign. I felt bad for not going to another new game land and seeing what was there but I kept finding more and more sign in the big piece. I do have other areas I’ve scouted. Some I’m not going to waste my time with, some looked promising. This big piece has had the best sign I’ve seen so far in the couple years I’ve been hunting. I also have other pieces I’ve hunted before where I have historical information on how they travel. Needless to say though I’m very excited to learn more about these areas within the big piece I’m scouting and I’m probably gonna hang some cams and throw some hunts at a few of those places. I have trees picked out already and ideas of when those areas are being used. I could totally be wrong but I think I might be in the game for some of the spots.
 
greg728 said:
So this is going to be my 4th season coming up. My biggest thing I wanted to work on was getting better with post season scouting over winter into spring. I did this when I first started but wasn’t sure what I was looking at a lot of times and would just set up on any sign without realizing most of it was laid down at night. I’ve learned a lot since then but I’m still learning. The area I’ve scouted mainly has been very promising and the only reason I’ve continued scouting it is because I keep finding good sign. The piece is a very large chunk of public land close to 70,000 acres and I just e-scout smaller areas that look like will hold good buck bedding and go from there. I’m not paying attention to the size of the whole piece because I’m never going to learn it all. I’m just focused on the southern part of the land and within that breaking that down to smaller chunks that look promising on paper. When I went to check those smaller pieces out, some of them didn’t give me any sign of life but others were really good. I’ve found a bunch of buck bedding areas littered with waist to chest high rubs, and from those bedding areas rub lines of the same size coming from the bedding area and going towards doe bedding and a couple large community scrapes. All of these areas have a thermal advantage and will be tough to get in without the deer knowing. I also found a bunch of swamp bedding on the mountain that had good sign. I felt bad for not going to another new game land and seeing what was there but I kept finding more and more sign in the big piece. I do have other areas I’ve scouted. Some I’m not going to waste my time with, some looked promising. This big piece has had the best sign I’ve seen so far in the couple years I’ve been hunting. I also have other pieces I’ve hunted before where I have historical information on how they travel. Needless to say though I’m very excited to learn more about these areas within the big piece I’m scouting and I’m probably gonna hang some cams and throw some hunts at a few of those places. I have trees picked out already and ideas of when those areas are being used. I could totally be wrong but I think I might be in the game for some of the spots.
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You are ahead of most and learning super fast, for 4 years in.. yes I like the sound of all of it, I wouldn’t change a thing on what you‘re doing, I hunted PA for the first time last year, and although it was on the ground, tracking on snow during rifle I learned a lot fast, it has a lot to offer right now and I would love to bow hunt there sometime.. I just mite if I tag out early here.. What you described is exactly how I break down monster size chunks of timber as well, once I locate the better sign, small pockets of deer, because that’s what they are is pockets in places like that, then I micro manage everything else, specific rub lines, buck bedding, and let the cameras, cell cameras dictate when and where I hunt, having multiple options/locations in a massive chunk of woods like I and you have is a major advantage in my opinion. The most common complaint I here amongst hunters in regard to hunting big woods like that versus AG.. smaller pieces of private… is how do you pattern those deer, they’re all over the place, with no rhyme or rhyme, and to that I say it’s my opinion patterning deer in the big woods, even with scattered food sources, and low density numbers, is a heck of a lot easier than trying to pattern a farm buck being pushed all over from private to private by god knows who and what they also have going on, I have no idea how you pattern a deer or specific buck operating like that, I never could, I guess you just kind of post up and hope today is the day he comes on your tract, big woods like you are describing, and where I hunt, we can find a deer and go after him, and for the most part he should be unmolested by other hunters, obviously that’s not always the case, but it happens for me more often than not. In my experience, the challenge for me with hunting big woods is finding that one specific, or better than average size deer to go after, once found I can usually get a decent pattern on them… versus a 2.5 or 3.5 year old that roams all over laying down sign anywhere and everywhere….. big, high rubs is exactly what I look for, and the more the better. Hang some cameras high on those community scrapes where they can’t be picked off or spook anything and take inventory of what exactly you have going on and hunt accordingly.. good things will come. I read these 2 books many years ago, I won’t say I agreed with all of it back then, maybe I would more today, idk, but give them a read if you haven’t, like everything else in this sport, it’s always good to get another perspective!
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Topdog said:
You are ahead of most and learning super fast, for 4 years in.. yes I like the sound of all of it, I wouldn’t change a thing on what you‘re doing, I hunted PA for the first time last year, and although it was on the ground, tracking on snow during rifle I learned a lot fast, it has a lot to offer right now and I would love to bow hunt there sometime.. I just mite if I tag out early here.. What you described is exactly how I break down monster size chunks of timber as well, once I locate the better sign, small pockets of deer, because that’s what they are is pockets in places like that, then I micro manage everything else, specific rub lines, buck bedding, and let the cameras, cell cameras dictate when and where I hunt, having multiple options/locations in a massive chunk of woods like I and you have is a major advantage in my opinion. The most common complaint I here amongst hunters in regard to hunting big woods like that versus AG.. smaller pieces of private… is how do you pattern those deer, they’re all over the place, with no rhyme or rhyme, and to that I say it’s my opinion patterning deer in the big woods, even with scattered food sources, and low density numbers, is a heck of a lot easier than trying to pattern a farm buck being pushed all over from private to private by god knows who and what they also have going on, I have no idea how you pattern a deer or specific buck operating like that, I never could, I guess you just kind of post up and hope today is the day he comes on your tract, big woods like you are describing, and where I hunt, we can find a deer and go after him, and for the most part he should be unmolested by other hunters, obviously that’s not always the case, but it happens for me more often than not. In my experience, the challenge for me with hunting big woods is finding that one specific, or better than average size deer to go after, once found I can usually get a decent pattern on them… versus a 2.5 or 3.5 year old that roams all over laying down sign anywhere and everywhere….. big, high rubs is exactly what I look for, and the more the better. Hang some cameras high on those community scrapes where they can’t be picked off or spook anything and take inventory of what exactly you have going on and hunt accordingly.. good things will come. I read these 2 books many years ago, I won’t say I agreed with all of it back then, maybe I would more today, idk, but give them a read if you haven’t, like everything else in this sport, it’s always good to get another perspective!
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Thanks for all the insight! I’ll definitely check those books out I appreciate it. Do you really find them to be all over the place like that? I’m used to hunting smaller wood lots and maybe a little higher deer density. I’m not planning on sitting these spots all the time. As of now most of them are rut and possible pre rut locations. A couple swamp spots have isolated food sources so I may throw an early season hunt there on the right wind. My gut tells me if I’m mostly rut hunting these spots next year I can adjust a little if I read something wrong without boogering up the woods too much since bucks have their guard down a little. Could be wrong so correct me if so.
 
Most of it is experience really. Depending on the type of ground you have to hunt, you will really be able to eliminate a lot of walking. Especially if you have a lot of areas that will produce what I call wasted sign. Sure you can or have found sign in this spot on the property...but can you use it.
 
greg728 said:
Thanks for all the insight! I’ll definitely check those books out I appreciate it. Do you really find them to be all over the place like that? I’m used to hunting smaller wood lots and maybe a little higher deer density. I’m not planning on sitting these spots all the time. As of now most of them are rut and possible pre rut locations. A couple swamp spots have isolated food sources so I may throw an early season hunt there on the right wind. My gut tells me if I’m mostly rut hunting these spots next year I can adjust a little if I read something wrong without boogering up the woods too much since bucks have their guard down a little. Could be wrong so correct me if so.
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Farm country… small private tracks are where I can’t pattern deer and find there’s no rhyme or rhythm to their movements, NY is a lot like PA with hunter numbers, lots of pressure all season. The big woods I don’t find them to be all over the place, much more predictable in my opinion, the exact opposite of what most folks believe in my experience, the same folks that probably get discouraged and give up and hunt somewhere else. Deer hunting is a mentally demanding sport, no place exploits that more than big woods/public, low deer numbers, rough terrain, long walks in and out, the mental grind can be unreal. As hunters, most recognize a job well done or being on the right path as by how many deer they see on a sit or hunt, hunting big woods that mind set has to go out the window fast if you plan on being successful, multiple day sits with zero deer seen are not uncommon, your mind begins to go crazy immediately. Having the confidence to grind away on a scrape 3 miles from a road that had one picture of a buck 3 days ago at midnight will test anyones sanity, that is big woods hunting at its finest. The difference is, when I’m hunting deep like that on big public and on low deer numbers… I know at least there’s a chance, the buck I’m after is probably still alive, and every 3-4 days he swings through here, versus on typical AG land, small wood lots like where I live, the neighbor has blown him out of there, or he’s dead, hit by a car, who knows what, it’s a complete mess most of the season and I can’t stand it. The deeper I am, the bigger the sign, the older the buck, the more predictable he is in my experience, he will also be more sensitive to human intrusion, so like you said, deeper in the rut, yup you can usually get away with more, just remember the window for when they get goofy acting shortens up considerably…. the older the target animal is, in my opinion. Deer hunting is like no other sport, 100% of the participants will have pointed opinions as to what works or doesn’t, regardless of what hangs on their wall, but the truth is none of us are done learning until it’s all over, and that’s what makes it so interesting, to me anyway! One more tip… I was never successful hunting the big woods until I fully committed myself to embracing the suck of low deer numbers and sightings, splitting the difference of hunting back “home” some and seeing 15 deer a day and then going back into big timber never worked… sit home and see 15 deer a day… one spike buck with 14 does, or grind away for days on end in the big country for days on end without seeing anything, but know there’s still a chance at a true giant… that know one has probably ever seen, the neighbors don’t have pictures of it…. and gave him a name like Thor or Hammer LOL…. To each their own. I hope you kill a giant this season, get to drag it out about 3 miles under a well lit moon with a pack of coyotes howling the entire time, there’s nothing quite like it!
 
Topdog said:
Farm country… small private tracks are where I can’t pattern deer and find there’s no rhyme or rhythm to their movements, NY is a lot like PA with hunter numbers, lots of pressure all season. The big woods I don’t find them to be all over the place, much more predictable in my opinion, the exact opposite of what most folks believe in my experience, the same folks that probably get discouraged and give up and hunt somewhere else. Deer hunting is a mentally demanding sport, no place exploits that more than big woods/public, low deer numbers, rough terrain, long walks in and out, the mental grind can be unreal. As hunters, most recognize a job well done or being on the right path as by how many deer they see on a sit or hunt, hunting big woods that mind set has to go out the window fast if you plan on being successful, multiple day sits with zero deer seen are not uncommon, your mind begins to go crazy immediately. Having the confidence to grind away on a scrape 3 miles from a road that had one picture of a buck 3 days ago at midnight will test anyones sanity, that is big woods hunting at its finest. The difference is, when I’m hunting deep like that on big public and on low deer numbers… I know at least there’s a chance, the buck I’m after is probably still alive, and every 3-4 days he swings through here, versus on typical AG land, small wood lots like where I live, the neighbor has blown him out of there, or he’s dead, hit by a car, who knows what, it’s a complete mess most of the season and I can’t stand it. The deeper I am, the bigger the sign, the older the buck, the more predictable he is in my experience, he will also be more sensitive to human intrusion, so like you said, deeper in the rut, yup you can usually get away with more, just remember the window for when they get goofy acting shortens up considerably…. the older the target animal is, in my opinion. Deer hunting is like no other sport, 100% of the participants will have pointed opinions as to what works or doesn’t, regardless of what hangs on their wall, but the truth is none of us are done learning until it’s all over, and that’s what makes it so interesting, to me anyway! One more tip… I was never successful hunting the big woods until I fully committed myself to embracing the suck of low deer numbers and sightings, splitting the difference of hunting back “home” some and seeing 15 deer a day and then going back into big timber never worked… sit home and see 15 deer a day… one spike buck with 14 does, or grind away for days on end in the big country for days on end without seeing anything, but know there’s still a chance at a true giant… that know one has probably ever seen, the neighbors don’t have pictures of it…. and gave him a name like Thor or Hammer LOL…. To each their own. I hope you kill a giant this season, get to drag it out about 3 miles under a well lit moon with a pack of coyotes howling the entire time, there’s nothing quite like it!
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Have you ever had them try to take your kill? I’ve heard about bears coming up to you while you’re field dressing which is a little unsettling. If I grind my ass off like you’re saying and shoot a buck I’m not really trying to share with anyone lol. Curious if I should keep a can of bear spray with me. I know they don’t really want anything to do with people but their temperament can get funny when it comes to food.
 
greg728 said:
Have you ever had them try to take your kill? I’ve heard about bears coming up to you while you’re field dressing which is a little unsettling. If I grind my ass off like you’re saying and shoot a buck I’m not really trying to share with anyone lol. Curious if I should keep a can of bear spray with me. I know they don’t really want anything to do with people but their temperament can get funny when it comes to food.
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better off with a CCW weapon if you're allowed to carry one while bowhunting in your state. we can here in ohio.
 
SNIPERBBB said:
better off with a CCW weapon if you're allowed to carry one while bowhunting in your state. we can here in ohio.
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Not disputing this I’ve just heard spray is more effective but I’m open to carrying. People out in grizzly country seem to prefer spray
 
If I want to learn a new piece quickly I’ll scout when there is snow on the ground. While some of the patterns are shifted during the winter, tracks lead me quickly through bedding areas and feeding and travel corridors. Next best thing, or as a follow up is scouting during mud season. Trails are easy to follow and you can find occasional intact tracks. Once I’ve made a rough map of the deer trails and bedding areas the other pieces of the puzzle fall into place.
 
greg728 said:
Have you ever had them try to take your kill? I’ve heard about bears coming up to you while you’re field dressing which is a little unsettling. If I grind my ass off like you’re saying and shoot a buck I’m not really trying to share with anyone lol. Curious if I should keep a can of bear spray with me. I know they don’t really want anything to do with people but their temperament can get funny when it comes to food.
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Never…. and we are infested with black bears around here, bad… we assist the local farmers in filling nuisance permits here each fall things get so bad... major crop damage. The only bears I’ve encountered that don’t respect humans are in campgrounds. Leaving a deer overnight and having a bear find it is a different story, I could see that happening, but I’ve never had it happen or heard of it happening here, around the end of September bears are about finished here and slow down considerably, the hot months.. June, July, August, is when we have the most bear complaints and problems.. But no I’ve never had a bear problem during deer season, when I leave one overnight and come back for it the next day I generally make lots of noise when I get close and take my time walking up to it.
 
I start with e-scouting and select manageable chunks of land. I then do a quicker walk through of areas of interest from the digital scouting. I note areas of greater interest and either come back another day for them or going into greater detail that day.

It's a lot like trying to find a specific fact in a specific book or finding a house to buy in a new town.
 
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If the area is bike friendly use that to get eyes on the different cover types, and look for heavily used deer trails. Still need boots on ground, but bike lets you see more faster.
 
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