Tether safety backup?

[raisins]

Run my lineman's lanyard around the tree with a girth hitch to provide an attachment point below my main tether. I run this short so basically I just have a carabiner hanging off the tree to snap into. I have 2 carabiners on the lanyard and so it can be fully detached from the saddle to do this. I then girth hitch a 3 foot nylon climbing sling around my saddle belt and clip this to the hanging carabiner from my lineman's lanyard. I adjust this so that it is loose and below my main tether so that it will not restrict movement. My bridge and/or main tether could break and I'd still be hanging from my belt. Makes me feel safer when 25 feet up over some rocks.

I only use rope friction hitches and do not use mechanical ascenders, such as a ropeman. On the way up with sticks, I use both a lineman's lanyard and tether. At height, I tie temporary stopper knots so that nothing can slide more than a few inches.

 

[kyler1945]

Thoughts on this setup for redundancy? I wanted to get away from the double lines of a prusik. Blake’s with a overhand loop. 8mm to Tethrd tree.

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I see multiple single points of failure in your system.

not that that is a problem, it’s up to you. But you may have reduced or eliminated one risk, while ignoring other larger or equivalent risks. It’s possible your backup to your ropeman doesn’t materially change your risk of a catastrophic failure.

 

[bob1sh]

I see multiple single points of failure in your system.

not that that is a problem, it’s up to you. But you may have reduced or eliminated one risk, while ignoring other larger or equivalent risks. It’s possible your backup to your ropeman doesn’t materially change your risk of a catastrophic failure.

Would you mind pointing all of those things out, explain the larger risks, and how the friction hitch above the Ropeman doesn’t change the risk of failure? I initially only cared about the Ropeman but I’m new and now I’m curious.


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[kyler1945]

Would you mind pointing all of those things out, explain the larger risks, and how the friction hitch above the Ropeman doesn’t change the risk of failure? I initially only cared about the Ropeman but I’m new and now I’m curious.


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im not the guy you need to listen to - I’d recommend working with a certified climbing instructor if you’re really interested.

but you have one tether, which I assume is not directly tied to your saddle. You have One bridge. And you have One saddle.

if your tether, your bridge, or your saddle(either bridge loop) fails, you’re hitting the deck.

You’ve added a redundancy to the connection to the tether only.

I’m not telling you you’re being unsafe. I’m just trying to get you to consider how much what you did really changes your situation.

 

[arm breaker]

I am all about safety and was thinking about this a lot last year. Having said that, do people really recommend using two bridges, two tethers, etc? That seems odd to me given the weight ratings on the ropes and carabiners versus a stand with a 300 lb max.

 

[bj139]

I am all about safety and was thinking about this a lot last year. Having said that, do people really recommend using two bridges, two tethers, etc? That seems odd to me given the weight ratings on the ropes and carabiners versus a stand with a 300 lb max.

Last year someone fell backwards out of a tree when their webbing bridge came untied. A second one would have caught them with very little additional weight or bulk. It may look unsightly but could save your life. I use 2 climbing sling bridges and 2 tethers just in case.

 

[kyler1945]

I am all about safety and was thinking about this a lot last year. Having said that, do people really recommend using two bridges, two tethers, etc? That seems odd to me given the weight ratings on the ropes and carabiners versus a stand with a 300 lb max.

Not the point of my post at all. I just see a lot of decisions made based on bad math, or feelings. They don't change the odds of not dying materially. One might think that something that doesn't make you MORE likely to die, but makes you FEEL LESS likely to die is a good thing, or at worst, harmless. I disagree. My concern, with 99% of my posts regarding risks and safety when climbing trees, is not the person posting the content. Luck will probably favor them. It's the less informed, less experienced, less prepared person who skims their post or video, makes a bad assumption, and then kills themselves.

Bad advice used to not scale. With the internet, thousands of people can see bad ideas, bad advice, or bad opinions, or false information, etc. instantly. A 1/1,000,000 probability of a fatal accident can become 1/100 in an instant, when your content scales.

 

[bj139]

Bad advice used to not scale. With the internet, thousands of people can see bad ideas, bad advice, or bad opinions, or false information, etc. instantly. A 1/1,000,000 probability of a fatal accident can become 1/100 in an instant, when your content scales.

1 out of 1 million people will die. How can that then become 1 out of 100 people will now die??? Confused.

 

[raisins]

I am all about safety and was thinking about this a lot last year. Having said that, do people really recommend using two bridges, two tethers, etc? That seems odd to me given the weight ratings on the ropes and carabiners versus a stand with a 300 lb max.

For redundancy, it is not required to have 2 full bridges and tethers (identical). You just need one more tie off point that is to another weight rated area and that doesn't get in your way too much.

 

[bj139]

For redundancy, it is not required to have 2 full bridges and tethers (identical). You just need one more tie off point that is to another weight rated area and that doesn't get in your way too much.

I wonder how the guy with the webbing bridge failing would have fared falling to the end of his tether?

 

[kyler1945]

1 out of 1 million people will die. How can that then become 1 out of 100 people will now die??? Confused.

you doing a dumb thing with 1/1mil odds of dying and not telling anyone = 1/mil. You doing a dumb thing and posting it on the internet and giving people the impression you know what you’re doing, and that the thing isn’t dumb, and 10,000 people decide to do the same thing = 1/100.

When I dove with sharks, the guide instructed us to keep our hands tucked in our BC’s at all times, and to specifically not pet the sharks. When I asked why, because I’m dense, he said “we’re feeding the sharks. With our hands. I’m not worried about the shark you pet. It will understand fully that you’re just touching it. I’m worried about the two dozen sharks watching you reach out with your hand. They’ll take it off assuming it has a piece of fish in it.”

That mistake scales, no pun intended. So does giving a false sense of risk mitigation.

 

[bj139]

you doing a dumb thing with 1/1mil odds of dying and not telling anyone = 1/mil. You doing a dumb thing and posting it on the internet and giving people the impression you know what you’re doing, and that the thing isn’t dumb, and 10,000 people decide to do the same thing = 1/100.

When I dove with sharks, the guide instructed us to keep our hands tucked in our BC’s at all times, and to specifically not pet the sharks. When I asked why, because I’m dense, he said “we’re feeding the sharks. With our hands. I’m not worried about the shark you pet. It will understand fully that you’re just touching it. I’m worried about the two dozen sharks watching you reach out with your hand. They’ll take it off assuming it has a piece of fish in it.”

That mistake scales, no pun intended. So does giving a false sense of risk mitigation.

I see what you're saying. The odds don't really scale but the absolute numbers do.

 

[Sniper4hire]

Because of my fear of heights, I run a double bridge and a double connection to the tether rope. Its peace of mind. Unnecessary, but peace of mind is everything so the hunt is enjoyable

 

[raisins]

I wonder how the guy with the webbing bridge failing would have fared falling to the end of his tether?

I don't run a double bridge/tether and my system would've stopped me.

I girth hitch a 3 foot nylon climbing sling to the weight rated belt on my saddle. I push this off to the side so it isn't in the way. I clip the end of the sling to my lineman's lanyard that I turn into a "hook on the tree" by girth hitching around the tree. I leave a bit of slack in this sling so it doesn't hold any weight or get in the way. If my main tether broke, then I'd only fall a few inches before the sling grabbed me by my belt.

 

[Shakeandbake]

Thoughts on this setup for redundancy? I wanted to get away from the double lines of a prusik. Blake’s with a overhand loop. 8mm to Tethrd tree.

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Why not just tie a figure eight knot at the end of your tether and clip it back in your carabiner? If you had a catastrophic failure on your ropeman/prusik, you would only fall about a foot. Aero Hunter recommends that on all their saddle set ups. As far as an additional back up to a bridge, I have done other things of your interested...


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[raisins]

Why not just tie a figure eight knot at the end of your tether and clip it back in your carabiner? If you had a catastrophic failure on your ropeman/prusik, you would only fall about a foot. Aero Hunter recommends that on all their saddle set ups. As far as an additional back up to a bridge, I have done other things of your interested...


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He could do that and (once at height) also tie temporary stopper knot(s) on the tag end in between ropeman and the figure 8 termination you spoke of. This would catch a slipping ropeman and also shorten the fall if the ropeman totally fails. I'm sure there are fancy knots to do this, but I just tie several overhands on a bight (on a bight since i have the end of my tether on the carabiner while doing this) until I run out of rope (makes less rope but it doesn't hang straight down, which might bother some). I can't see a fall untying 3 overhands in a row, but YMMV.

 

[bob1sh]

Why not just tie a figure eight knot at the end of your tether and clip it back in your carabiner? If you had a catastrophic failure on your ropeman/prusik, you would only fall about a foot. Aero Hunter recommends that on all their saddle set ups. As far as an additional back up to a bridge, I have done other things of your interested...


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I thought the consensus was having the back up above your Ropeman would be better than having one underneath it if the Ropeman failed. I used to do what you’re mentioning, but if you clip back into the biner connected to the Ropeman that failed, how does that work?


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[TooBigToFit]

Why not just tie a figure eight knot at the end of your tether and clip it back in your carabiner? If you had a catastrophic failure on your ropeman/prusik, you would only fall about a foot. Aero Hunter recommends that on all their saddle set ups. As far as an additional back up to a bridge, I have done other things of your interested...


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I'm guessing it's for the "Ropeman cutting into the rope" failure mode (I believe more of a dynamic loading issue, but I could be wrong).

 

[gwhalin]

I have two bridges, often have two tethers at height and back up my hitch cord with alpine butterflies on both tethers. Since I wear saddle in, only carrying about 5-6 lbs on my pack in a small day pack. Being safe by adding redundancy doesn't really "cost" me anything extra.

 

[bj139]

I don't run a double bridge/tether and my system would've stopped me.

I girth hitch a 3 foot nylon climbing sling to the weight rated belt on my saddle. I push this off to the side so it isn't in the way. I clip the end of the sling to my lineman's lanyard that I turn into a "hook on the tree" by girth hitching around the tree. I leave a bit of slack in this sling so it doesn't hold any weight or get in the way. If my main tether broke, then I'd only fall a few inches before the sling grabbed me by my belt.

I have heard this many times before so I will ask, how do you hunt with all that extra junk? Just kidding. I've found it doesn't get in the way of any shot a normal tether/bridge wouldn't get in the way of.