Tethrd One Sticks Gen 2

[gcr0003]

I wonder if the point of ropes rated to 6000lbs, climbing sticks made with 3/4” stick steps and 1/8” wall tubing and grade 8 hardware, biners rated to 24kn, is beginning to become more obvious to folks who don’t understand why there is so much safety margin built into equipment that is related to leaving the ground…

I’m not convinced that hunting treestands build in much margin. As many brackets, sticks, bolts, platforms etc. that ive seen shared that break, bend or yield. It’s not evident to me that enough factors of safety are being applied or even considered. I’m also not convinced that any kind of FEA is being used to to mitigate high stress regions. Maybe I’m wrong, but it isn’t apparent to me. I think there are several companies that probably just design and build a product and if it passes the test without failing they call it good. That doesn’t tell you how close to failure that part is. Only test to failure or analysis can predict or show that. I have assumed that this is an issue with the hunting industry based on these examples as well as after reading TMA test criteria for tree stands. It’s really a joke the way tree stands are tested. Everything that we design for in the work I do has different required factors of safety depending on the application and forces they will see. I really am not convinced the treestand, sticks, platform etc. companies are designing these things with conservative analysis of any, conservative factors of safety, and much in the way of margin of safety.

Tree stands have that 300 lb max load that we see way too often, but what type of factory of safety is that for a 300 lb man? What is the minimum force that would actually break a standoff, or step, or other part of a stand. We don’t know.

I think this is an issue in the climbing industry as well to some degree. How is the 6000 mbs equipment actually being tested. Most test scenarios are still ideal cases which makes you wonder what the safe working load is? Ad to that wear and tear to climbing gear that is hard to be accounted for. Hownot2 on YouTube highlights a lot of these concerns and issues.

Anyway, it seems there is either over confidence in gear, or lack of knowledge of the risks to using the gear.

I think harnesses and saddles that are tested are more efficacious. Maybe because the treestand companies require you to where a harness that think they can have such small factors of safety. Or, maybe it’s what happens when trying to make the latest and greatest light weight gear.

 

[CooterBrown]

I’m not convinced that hunting treestands build in much margin. As many brackets, sticks, bolts, platforms etc. that ive seen shared that break, bend or yield. It’s not evident to me that enough factors of safety are being applied or even considered. I’m also not convinced that any kind of FEA is being used to to mitigate high stress regions. Maybe I’m wrong, but it isn’t apparent to me. I think there are several companies that probably just design and build a product and if it passes the test without failing they call it good. That doesn’t tell you how close to failure that part is. Only test to failure or analysis can predict or show that. I have assumed that this is an issue with the hunting industry based on these examples as well as after reading TMA test criteria for tree stands. It’s really a joke the way tree stands are tested. Everything that we design for in the work I do has different required factors of safety depending on the application and forces they will see. I really am not convinced the treestand, sticks, platform etc. companies are designing these things with conservative analysis of any, conservative factors of safety, and much in the way of margin of safety.

Tree stands have that 300 lb max load that we see way too often, but what type of factory of safety is that for a 300 lb man? What is the minimum force that would actually break a standoff, or step, or other part of a stand. We don’t know.

I think this is an issue in the climbing industry as well to some degree. How is the 6000 mbs equipment actually being tested. Most test scenarios are still ideal cases which makes you wonder what the safe working load is? Ad to that wear and tear to climbing gear that is hard to be accounted for. Hownot2 on YouTube highlights a lot of these concerns and issues.

Anyway, it seems there is either over confidence in gear, or lack of knowledge of the risks to using the gear.

I think harnesses and saddles that are tested are more efficacious. Maybe because the treestand companies require you to where a harness that think they can have such small factors of safety. Or, maybe it’s what happens when trying to make the latest and greatest light weight gear.

Kinda odd that tethrd is the one pushing for some kinda of certification process for saddle hunting. Does seam that theses sticks would pass much testing criteria.

 

[gcr0003]

Kinda odd that tethrd is the one pushing for some kinda of certification process for saddle hunting. Does seam that theses sticks would pass much testing criteria.

Passing a test that accounts for only few static cases is one thing, but if you have no margin of safety it could only take a little bit of the same force in a different way to cause a failure.

I’m kinda leaning toward boynes idea of temper issue or some kind of low mechanical strength material issue which could eat up any margin they might have built in immediately.

Though.. the material thickness around the pin and the shaft is realllllllyyyy thin looking.

 

[Tilerdurdin]

They are not scammers, every one that purchased ONE sticks received those sticks not a empty box.
Also they had a recall, they didn’t just disappear out of thin air, I’m sure they are busy.
Credit card… Really? If you don’t own anything from Tethrd and bash them every time you read a post about their stuff should I really take advice from you in how to deal with their products or customer service? Every time I have ever dealt with them they have been great with there customer service…

I know you resell a lot of ONE sticks and other stuff on eBay. Has any of your customers requested refunds over this recall?

 

[mattsteg]

Another example of scientific testing not relating to real life?......

ASTM standards are 100% designed to CYA at minimal cost so you don't get sued. They're not particularly "scientific" or rigorous.

 

[kyler1945]

Or, maybe it’s what happens when trying to make the latest and greatest light weight gear.

This was the exact point of my post.

And yes, if we required hunting and climbing gear to meet a 3:1 safety factor, for a million cycles, we’d have no hunting gear.

I’m not saying that a 6000lb rope is tested at 18000lbs a million times. I’m saying that it’s so overbuilt for the use, that the lack of testing at the extreme is not as big of a risk factor. We use bigger stronger stuff specifically because it isn’t/can’t/won’t be tested in a way that will give the assurance needed. So go bigger.

 

[TK161BOONER]

I know you resell a lot of ONE sticks and other stuff on eBay. Has any of your customers requested refunds over this recall?

No, why would me or any other guy on this forum that has sold Gen2 one sticks be responsible for Tethrd’s recall?

 

[kyler1945]

Kinda odd that tethrd is the one pushing for some kinda of certification process for saddle hunting. Does seam that theses sticks would pass much testing criteria.

Regulation is the best way to kill competition. If you can't come up with a product so unique, that current IP laws protect it, you devote resources to creating regulation as a barrier of entry to competitors.

If anyone thinks they're doing it to make people safer, they're mistaken. It might be some small percentage of their motives. But it is most definitely to cut down on mom and pops with no overhead. If you lobby for requirements on insurance, testing, certification, etc. and you win, you immediately get rid of much of your competition in this space.

 

[mattsteg]

ASTM standards are 100% designed to CYA at minimal cost so you don't get sued.

I’m not convinced that hunting treestands build in much margin. As many brackets, sticks, bolts, platforms etc. that ive seen shared that break, bend or yield. It’s not evident to me that enough factors of safety are being applied or even considered.

The margin is written into the ASTM/TMA standards. It's not high. Something like 2 samples at 2x bodyweight.

How does one sufficiently test ones gear but not damage it?

As I'm sure most have seen I have started a post concerning how to self rescue and greatly appreciate all those that have replied and shared their input. As all this research into preparation for and equipping ones self for self rescue has gotten me thinking that a constant regime of inspecting...

saddlehunter.com

 

[Tilerdurdin]

No, why would me or any other guy on this forum that has sold Gen2 one sticks be responsible for Tethrd’s recall?

I don’t think you or any other seller are responsible. I was just curious if any of your eBay buyers have initiated a return based on the recall.

 

[TK161BOONER]

I don’t think you or any other seller are responsible. I was just curious if any of your eBay buyers have initiated a return based on the recall.

No

 

[kyler1945]

The margin is written into the ASTM/TMA standards. It's not high. Something like 2 samples at 2x bodyweight.
View attachment 68700

How does one sufficiently test ones gear but not damage it?

As I'm sure most have seen I have started a post concerning how to self rescue and greatly appreciate all those that have replied and shared their input. As all this research into preparation for and equipping ones self for self rescue has gotten me thinking that a constant regime of inspecting...

saddlehunter.com

Where have you been! Was hoping you’d chime in on this one and realized I hadn’t seen you here in a minute

 

[mattsteg]

Where have you been! Was hoping you’d chime in on this one and realized I hadn’t seen you here in a minute

It's been a busy year. My wife and I had our first child and a colleague left for other opportunities (and the position hasn't been backfilled at this point) so I've been working for 2 plus taking care of a mini-me since Nov.

 

[neonomad]

It's been a busy year. My wife and I had our first child and a colleague left for other opportunities (and the position hasn't been backfilled at this point) so I've been working for 2 plus taking care of a mini-me since Nov.

Congrats and good luck! We have two young ones and it’s rewarding but all consuming, the only thing that keeps me sane is forums, tinkering, and cellular cams! I’m way less a threat in the woods than I used to be.

 

[neonomad]

I’m thinking 2022 might be a once in a lifetime opportunity for us 170 pounders to pick up a nice set of sticks at a deep discount.

 

[Rick T]

I’m thinking 2022 might be a once in a lifetime opportunity for us 170 pounders to pick up a nice set of sticks at a deep discount.

I'm only 150 maybe that's why mine didn't break. Haha

 

[weekender21]

I’m thinking 2022 might be a once in a lifetime opportunity for us 170 pounders to pick up a nice set of sticks at a deep discount.

How deep are we talking, might save me the hassle of a return although I have my label already.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jlh42581]

I'm the 210 power fatty I guess. I have a label now but I keep telling myself I'm keeping them so I guess I'm keeping them. I'm not sending them to test, a return would be a return.

Based on information here and the fact I've stood on them a half a dozen times I'm not sure what more there is to test.

Maybe I'm a moron

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I’m not convinced that hunting treestands build in much margin. As many brackets, sticks, bolts, platforms etc. that ive seen shared that break, bend or yield. It’s not evident to me that enough factors of safety are being applied or even considered. I’m also not convinced that any kind of FEA is being used to to mitigate high stress regions. Maybe I’m wrong, but it isn’t apparent to me. I think there are several companies that probably just design and build a product and if it passes the test without failing they call it good. That doesn’t tell you how close to failure that part is. Only test to failure or analysis can predict or show that. I have assumed that this is an issue with the hunting industry based on these examples as well as after reading TMA test criteria for tree stands. It’s really a joke the way tree stands are tested. Everything that we design for in the work I do has different required factors of safety depending on the application and forces they will see. I really am not convinced the treestand, sticks, platform etc. companies are designing these things with conservative analysis of any, conservative factors of safety, and much in the way of margin of safety.

Tree stands have that 300 lb max load that we see way too often, but what type of factory of safety is that for a 300 lb man? What is the minimum force that would actually break a standoff, or step, or other part of a stand. We don’t know.

I think this is an issue in the climbing industry as well to some degree. How is the 6000 mbs equipment actually being tested. Most test scenarios are still ideal cases which makes you wonder what the safe working load is? Ad to that wear and tear to climbing gear that is hard to be accounted for. Hownot2 on YouTube highlights a lot of these concerns and issues.

Anyway, it seems there is either over confidence in gear, or lack of knowledge of the risks to using the gear.

I think harnesses and saddles that are tested are more efficacious. Maybe because the treestand companies require you to where a harness that think they can have such small factors of safety. Or, maybe it’s what happens when trying to make the latest and greatest light weight gear.

Do tell me what treestands are “tested” at to obtain 300 lbs..
Edit: Never mind someone already beat me to posting it on here.
2x the weight at the furthest point and held there for a few minutes. That’s pretty strong but I would feel better if it was 3x the weight rating.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

The margin is written into the ASTM/TMA standards. It's not high. Something like 2 samples at 2x bodyweight.
View attachment 68700

How does one sufficiently test ones gear but not damage it?

As I'm sure most have seen I have started a post concerning how to self rescue and greatly appreciate all those that have replied and shared their input. As all this research into preparation for and equipping ones self for self rescue has gotten me thinking that a constant regime of inspecting...

saddlehunter.com

Worth noting is that number is 2 times the weight rating at the furthest point away which is a higher stress angle. Also it’s pulled and held there for a few minutes at that weight pull. Remember stands are made simply to stand on, they aren’t to be shock loaded or jumped on. I do think the test strength should be 3x the rated load not 2x