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The everyman's guide to killing a deer with a trad bow???

HugeBull

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
46
OK, I know that we can't do the same things as compound shooters (I shoot both), but I do think that we could simplify things for some newbies that wanna try trad. So, I am gonna kick this off, everything below is just my opinion:

1) Buy a trad bow of your choice between 40-50 lbs at your draw length. (Remember that draw length with a compound does not necessarily equate to draw length of a trad bow. Many archers shorten their draw on a trad bow.) This can be a longbow or a recurve. One piece, TD, ILF, WARF, Frankenbow, etc. It really doesn't matter. I would personally not recommend that you start with a self bow (all wood), but these suggestions would probably even work for that. Length should be between 60 to 66 for most archers. If you have ape arms, you may need more, or T-Rex you may need less. Buying used can save you some bucks on a custom bow, but there are also several decent stick bows that can be bought for reasonably prices new.
2) Buy carbon arrows spined for your bow weight and draw length with feathers of at least 4 inches, 5 is better. Find something that shoots fairly good out of your bow with a 125-150 grain field point. Anyone else wanna suggest anything for special inserts? I have gone both ways (stock and heavy) but will yield to someone else to make a suggestion for beginners. I suggest carbons for consistency and durability, not that wood or aluminum are inferior. As a new trad shooter, durability matters. Get some help tuning these arrows to your setup and style of shooting. Generally, with trad gear you can adjust spine by trimming arrows or adding weight up front. Tuning is important, but it is probably best accomplished with a mentor or staff at a good archery shop.
3) Buy a good fixed two blade cut on contact broadhead. There are a bunch out there: two bevel, single bevel, whatever, it does not matter. I suggest something between 125 and 150 grains. There is no need to go for anything else other than a sharp edge. Any broadhead sent through both lungs at short range will work.
4) Buy a glove or shooting tab, and stick with it. Changing up may not help your shooting much at first.
5) Shoot off the shelf or a rest, it does not matter. Regardless, many trad archers like to 'pad' their shelf and riser area with some kind of soft, quiet material. Stick on moleskin is good, and many other products are available on-line for this purpose.
6) Watch a handful of YT videos on shooting a trad bow, and pick an anchor point and nocking method. Stick with it. Most of us started with split fingers nocking at the corner of our mouth, but no reason not to go three under or any other nocking point. However, it is critical that you can learn to hit your nocking point reliably, and that you can know when you have done so naturally. Stick with what seems to work for you, changing stuff up does not normally lead to reliable accuracy. Experienced shooters may tweak their system to get some improvements, particularly at longer distances, but consistency is far more important IMO.
7) Form matters even more in trad bows than compounds. I'll not tell anyone that they need my form, but I will stress that if you want to shoot accurately with a trad bow, you will have to be able to replicate your draw length, anchor point, and aiming system. (Ignore target panic for now, you will know it if you get it and there are some excellent resources available on line, but this is another post already.) If you need or want an aiming aid, try white masking tape on the belly face of your bow riser with one black mark on it, probably about 1.5 inches above your arrow. Stick it on lightly and you can move it up and down. Most shooters do not need this at short ranges, their mind uses the arrow point subconsciously, but it is a cheap solution if you are coming from sights and want it.
8) Start shooting at a target with a good backstop, at 6-8 yards. Most of us started with some form of instinctive aiming, and at 8 yards you ought to be able to learn to hit a 10 inch pie plate regularly without any aiming aids. Keep shooting until you can group all your arrows in 6-7 inches. Then, move a few steps further back.
9) In my opinion, you should be planning for your first shot at a deer with trad gear to be broadside or quartering away and under 12 yards. Anybody that has been saddle hunting for long has had these shots, and if you haven't, then you need to work on your general hunting skills before trying to kill deer with trad gear, JMHO. Put up an elevated stand on your practice range and shoot at a deer shaped target from your stand until you are confident that you: a) know what your limit looks like and b) can hit a deer's vitals with confidence within that limit. Some guys may struggle to get beyond 10 yards, and others may be good at 20 yards after a season of shooting. IMO, though, 10-15 yards is a great trad shot, and most hunters can get within 10 on a deer and can learn to execute this shot. Not so at 20 . . . Do not push it with trad gear: no Hail-Mary's and no off angles. Wait for the right shot or don't shoot, it is as simple as that.
10) IMO, you should aim for your first trad kill to be a young buck or doe. No reason not to shoot a monster that gives you the perfect shot, but set your bar low. If you choose to shoot fawns, remember that the kill zone is smaller. For close shots in early archery seasons, you will probably be hunting food sources, trails, and funnels, with less emphasis on buck bedding habitat. If you do have a target buck, I would not suggest targeting him for your first trad kill, JMO. Also, though many trad hunters have killed deer from the ground, I would suggest that you should hold off on ground hunting until you have a few deer under your trad belt. The odds of getting a deer close and pulling everything off without alerting the deer are much lower on the ground.

Is there anything else that I am missing?

Hugh
 
Its always peaked my interest. Maybe this off season will be my 1st. Thanks for posting this, it will be in my reference area for future reading. Just thinking of killing a mature deer with a traditional set up gets my blood flowing like paige spiranics Insta-gram pageo_O
 
I'd not necessarily agree with everything the OP suggested.

50 pounds is probably on the heavy side for learning proper form. I'd say to get a take down and start with sissy weight limbs and work your way up to 45-55 pounds for hunting. I don't believe there are many people that can properly maintain correct form over 60 pounds so if you are a compound guy that's used to shooting these 70-80 pound weights that are so common, don't think you can shoot trad in the 60# range. You'll probably develop bad habits.

Start out shooting "blind bale" (shoot with eyes closed) and "bare bale" (hay bale with no target) at ultra close ranges...less than 10 feet. Get proper form completely dialed in before you start trying to shoot at bullseyes.

I'd suggest keeping practice shots under 15 yards to develop confidence. I hear guys talk about practicing out to 50 or 60 yards with the thought that if they can hit at those distances, then 15 yards is easy. But that kind of practice plays with my mind. I'll never shoot at an animal at those distances so I don't care to practice at those ranges...it damages confidence IMO.

Get some judo points and stump shoot. It's a blast.

Get confident on shooting small game (rabbits, squirrels, groundhogs, starlings, etc) before you try to shoot deer. It's much lower pressure shooting and will really help keep you calm when shooting higher pressure targets like deer. And don't be afraid to start out your deer hunting with does.
 
Get some judo points and stump shoot. It's a blast.

Get confident on shooting small game (rabbits, squirrels, groundhogs, starlings, etc) before you try to shoot deer. It's much lower pressure shooting and will really help keep you calm when shooting higher pressure targets like deer. And don't be afraid to start out your deer hunting with does.

I was going to make this #8 1/2. All else on the list sounds good.
 
I'll defer to more experienced archers but my own sense of things is that 40# is too much to learn trad on. I'd suggest starting with 25# or 30#.

A novice might also incorporate some strength training exercises to practice sessions. Smooth draw and hold for 10 seconds, 10x. Controlled draw and controlled let down, 10x. Etc. I wish I could find the video on bow exercises I watched this spring. Deliberately building shoulder strength with an eye to waiting for a deer to take that next step you need is probably more of a deal with trad than compounds with huge letoff ratings.
 
Great comments, keep 'em coming.

I will agree that some folks could be overbowed at 40 pounds, but this thread was about killing deer, so I didn't want to recommend a weight much below that. Some wildlife agencies may specify minimum weights, so I figured this range was reasonable. However, I do know a guy that is regularly killing deer with less, and there is also a post on here about a fantastic young lady that killed a nice doe with less.

In full disclosure, I have killed only a handful of deer with trad gear, so I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. Unfortunately, while shooting trad, I developed horrible target panic and then had an unrelated shoulder injury, which forced me back to training wheels. I believe that instinctive shooting and being somewhat over-bowed contributed to my problems. So, I agree 100% with lighter weight bows and am very interested in those that recommend other aiming methods for beginners. I just can't shed much light on anything else. Even with TP, I could hit at 10 yards with confidence. So can RC, and he has a video on it. KYHunter and Iron_llama are also dead on, stay in control of your shot process. Unfortunately, I failed to master this early on, and it is hell with TP. So, I have stepped back from my hunting weight longbow to a 35# recurve hoping to re-tool my shooting process, overcome TP, and get back to a hunting weight bow by next fall. Thank God for good videos on the internet, but you only shoot better if you can implement good advice.

Until I can make some real improvements, I am still lugging this wheeled contraption around, and passing on some little guys hoping for a decent buck or a mature doe. This year I passed on shots at small bucks from 4 yards to 20 yards but haven't been within 20 of either a doe or a branched buck yet. Need more time to hang, but tomorrow may be different . . .

Like the original for compounds, my point in starting this thread was that harvesting deer with trad gear is possible for mere mortals and that the KISS method can pay real dividends in the traditional arena. If anyone can get within 5 yards of a legal deer, that person can probably kill that deer with any tuned trad bow, arrow, and broadhead combination if he/she can properly execute his/her practiced shot process. For me, the trouble has been with my shooting, not getting a good shot opportunity or getting adequate performance from the equipment. I even have a friend that killed 5 animals in Africa with an osage selfbow, and indigenous people around the world have been killing deer-sized game (and many larger animals) with 'primitive' archery equipment for centuries.

Hugh
 
I’m a large dude, 6’1” 240lbs with no gut. 40-50lbs is too much for a novice trad archer. I started with 40lbs (more like 42-43lbs with my draw length) and it was too heavy to get the reps I needed when I started. Get a takedown recurve and 25-30 lb limbs, something like a Southwest Archery Spider (or XL) or Samick Sage and then buy heavier limbs after a few months.
 
Everyone talks about buying heavier limbs later, but it’s not a must. Most states minimum poundage is 35#, and that’ll take pretty much any animal in the lower 48. You just need to be sure you take close high percentage shots with a heavy arrow and a razor sharp cut on contact broadhead. So don’t think you’re starting with some sub-par equipment when starting light.
 
Everyone talks about buying heavier limbs later, but it’s not a must. Most states minimum poundage is 35#, and that’ll take pretty much any animal in the lower 48. You just need to be sure you take close high percentage shots with a heavy arrow and a razor sharp cut on contact broadhead. So don’t think you’re starting with some sub-par equipment when starting light.
Agreed!!! :cool: 100%
I would rather shoot less poundage and be more accurate, than having some "male ego" about shooting high poundage and missing shots at hunting yardages! :)
Ohio has a 40# minimum draw weight for bows. I'm shooting 45# and very happy with how accurate and easy to draw this limb poundage is for 3D and hunting. Razor sharp cut-on-contact broadheads, matched spine arrows, well tuned bow and a decent amount of practice is all it takes to accomplish any hunting goals.
 
Just my opinion here and it really applies to bowhunting in general but is especially true for traditional bowhunting. There are two aspects to master, the hunting and the killing. Since this thread is about killing, we'll stay there. Good form is important for both target and hunting accuracy but really imo is not important at all for killing stuff. Mastering the weapon is though. There are plenty of folks that do not have great form that are straight killers but they can put the first arrow on the spot at their hunting range every time. That said if you are new, I highly encourage spending the time to learn good mechanics and form. Tom Clum's course that was mentioned would be worth the investment. As would Rod Jenkins', Joel Turner's, and a few others. That's half the killing part, the other half is go kill stuff. It doesnt matter what. Could be fish, skwerls, rabbits, coons, possums, whatever is legal for you to shoot, shoot it. The only way to get good at killing is by killing. Dont pass legal deer until you have killed a good pile of deer, then be selective if you want too. This is for those that want to be really good at making things dead with a bow. Stump shooting was mentioned and I agree completely, it is first arrow in a hunting environment practice. Pick a leaf, clump of grass, rotten stump or whatever, slip or stalk into shooting position(more practice) and take the shot. Keep score too, kill or miss.
 
Just my opinion here and it really applies to bowhunting in general but is especially true for traditional bowhunting. There are two aspects to master, the hunting and the killing. Since this thread is about killing, we'll stay there. Good form is important for both target and hunting accuracy but really imo is not important at all for killing stuff. Mastering the weapon is though. There are plenty of folks that do not have great form that are straight killers but they can put the first arrow on the spot at their hunting range every time. That said if you are new, I highly encourage spending the time to learn good mechanics and form. Tom Clum's course that was mentioned would be worth the investment. As would Rod Jenkins', Joel Turner's, and a few others. That's half the killing part, the other half is go kill stuff. It doesnt matter what. Could be fish, skwerls, rabbits, coons, possums, whatever is legal for you to shoot, shoot it. The only way to get good at killing is by killing. Dont pass legal deer until you have killed a good pile of deer, then be selective if you want too. This is for those that want to be really good at making things dead with a bow. Stump shooting was mentioned and I agree completely, it is first arrow in a hunting environment practice. Pick a leaf, clump of grass, rotten stump or whatever, slip or stalk into shooting position(more practice) and take the shot. Keep score too, kill or miss.

it couldn’t be said any better…
 
The biggest mistake most new to Trad archers make is to start off with too much poundage. Thirty pounds is probably light enough for most guys to start with to develop good shooting form. 40 to 50 pounds, is probably way too much to start off with.

I got into Trad for the first time four years ago. I didn’t realize I was over bowed and after a couple of months became frustrated with my lack of consistency and sold the bow.

Fast forward to 2 1/2 months ago. After hearing several of my hunting buddies going on and on about Trad I decided to stick my toe back into the Trad waters. This time around I started with a lightweight 30 pound take down recurve, and also watched “the push” two hour video on YouTube, which reviewed several different aiming techniques. I played around with several of them, but quickly landed on the fixed crawl method. Started shooting at 8 yards, and within two weeks I was hitting softball size groups out to 15 yards consistently.

I have access to some private ground near my home with very high deer numbers and I have been fortunate enough to take several deer with my recurve over the past month. Equally important as good shooting form, is consistent form. My form probably looks terrible to some, but if you are consistent with what you do from shot to shot, the arrow flight should be consistent as well.
 
Great stuff, keep it coming. It does seem universally accepted among those that are good at it that to learn to shoot a trad bow well, you need to start with less weight than most folks think. I shot trad until I was 13 and bought my first compound bow to hunt deer, a Silver Bear that topped out at 40 or 45 pounds. Then I shot compounds for 12 years before buying a 50# Jeffery recurve at about 25. Why 50? Because "someone" said that you needed 50 to 60 pounds to kill a deer. Yep, I was overbowed. Fast forward 15 more years, at 40 I started trying to push my weight up for hunting elk. Now, at 53, I just wish I had a better coach or mentor 30 years ago and am sure that I would be a better trad shot if I had started with a lighter bow as you guys advise. I guess it is never to late to start over . . .

The other theme that ought to be obvious is that you can't shoot consistently if you do not have consistency in your shot process. "Good form" is nothing more than learning high-odds techniques for success, and repeating them enough that they become engrained. Every good shooter, target or hunter, has some repeatable shot process. They guys with great form just learned the high-odds techniques, while others may have muddled around and developed some other shot process that they can repeat. Even Robert Carter, with his target panic, has a repeatable process, or he wouldn't be able to regularly put his arrow where he wants. But, I bet RC will admit that he is not executing good form by anyone's standard amidst his struggle with TP. In my struggle with target panic, I lost all consistency: no solid anchor and no real sense of aiming at all. Hence, I fell apart past 15 yards. Now, it is back to the drawing board for me, and with a lighter bow.

BTaylor is also dead on about killing deer. I have proven that I can get close enough to kill deer, but I have been too picky. There are all kinds of reasons for this, and lately mine has been pressure from the guy that owns my lease. So, I should go hunt public and shoot any legal deer or go find some other landowner that will let you shoot anything that walks. This year I was looking down at a little buck at about 4 feet from the base of my tree, asking myself why I pay to lease this land if I can't shoot this deer. Seems like a really good question, doesn't it . . .
 
I’m a large dude, 6’1” 240lbs with no gut. 40-50lbs is too much for a novice trad archer. I started with 40lbs (more like 42-43lbs with my draw length) and it was too heavy to get the reps I needed when I started. Get a takedown recurve and 25-30 lb limbs, something like a Southwest Archery Spider (or XL) or Samick Sage and then buy heavier limbs after a few months.


I'm 5'7" and 140#. I started with 64#. Your size means nothing if you can handle it. Slow and easy and I was able to get my reps up pretty quickly.

Not trying to be argumentative, but this "weight" topic has been pounded to death.
 
I wouldn’t be scared off by the “over-bowed” crowd. I’m not suggesting 50lbs, but I’m also not suggesting 35#. If you’ve been shooting a compound consistently/frequently, get you a 40-45# and you’ll be set.

If you’re at 28 inches with your compound you’ll likely be a little less draw length with a traditional bow. Know that for every inch less in draw-length you take off from 28” (standard length) the less poundage and efficiency your bow will have. I think the the rule is something like 2.5 pounds off for every inch. So you could buy a 45 pound bow drawing 26” if you ain’t a tall fella and actually be drawing 40#.

Good thread all around. I think most all of what you said is spot on and will work for most people. Good thread.
 
I agree that an adult male should in most cases be able to start with a 45 or 50 pound bow. The problem comes in when the beginner wants to shoot lots and lots of arrows. If you start with a hunting weight bow you'd also be best advised to actually shoot less. As in 6 arrows and put it away for the day. Fatigue comes quickly, isn't always readily apparent to the shooter and creates many bad habits. So shoot a lot or shoot a little depending on bow weight choice at first. That's advice coming from a guy who also over bowed himself to hunt elk.
 
I'm 5'7" and 140#. I started with 64#. Your size means nothing if you can handle it. Slow and easy and I was able to get my reps up pretty quickly.

Not trying to be argumentative, but this "weight" topic has been pounded to death.

Sounds like you may be the exception, but most experienced traditional archers will recommend starting light to develop good form, and then increasing draw weight from there if needed.
 
I agree that an adult male should in most cases be able to start with a 45 or 50 pound bow. The problem comes in when the beginner wants to shoot lots and lots of arrows. If you start with a hunting weight bow you'd also be best advised to actually shoot less. As in 6 arrows and put it away for the day. Fatigue comes quickly, isn't always readily apparent to the shooter and creates many bad habits. So shoot a lot or shoot a little depending on bow weight choice at first. That's advice coming from a guy who also over bowed himself to hunt elk.

this... not everyone can buy multiple limbs or bows to 'start low and work up'. This is dead on though if you get a bow at hunting weight (I am shooting 45#)... you want to shoot all day, but shoot more than 6-10 and you're gonna feel it. The progression should be in the amount of arrows shot with consistency, just like starting a regimen of sit-ups/push-ups, etc. the number you can shoot your first week will be lower than what you will be shooting comfortably in a month or two.
 
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