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To the people who have tried both: Sticks vs WE..

I have both and I like WE stepps if I'm hunting trees with limbs (cain method). If I'm hunting pine trees with very little to no limbs it's one stick method all day. My lone wolf sticks only get used if my son is hunting with me.
 
I have both plus bolts and hand climber. I love the hand climber. If your going to set up trees where legal bolts is the way to go if not legal and you going to leave your stuff in the woods I would go with sticks because I'm use to them I guess. My hand climber though is so easy I guess it's not for everyone but OMG climbing method and platform in one and weighs just 4 pounds 2 ounces. How can you beat that?
 
rutjr said:
I have both plus bolts and hand climber. I love the hand climber. If your going to set up trees where legal bolts is the way to go if not legal and you going to leave your stuff in the woods I would go with sticks because I'm use to them I guess. My hand climber though is so easy I guess it's not for everyone but OMG climbing method and platform in one and weighs just 4 pounds 2 ounces. How can you beat that?
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Agreed, I so badly wanted to love stepps. I even bought them twice. Finally got really dialed in & proficient with them , just never preferred them. Sticks w/ cayg aider or LW HC covers about everything. If you get to the top w/ sticks & still need another 10-50 ft you can 1 stick it on up.....
 
I’ve tried just about every method you can think of except spurs. I keep going back to sticks though. Sold my WE Steps. I am dabbling with bolts and Cranfords though this season.


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DaveT1963 said:
I have used both for decades, sticks hands down, not even close for me personally. reasons, sticks are way easier to set up in total darkness and just safer IMO. I like a CAYG aider but I've had way too many mishaps with multiple step aiders. To date my CAYG I have not had a kick out. And 3 modified sticks are not a problem if one learns how to attach them properly to a backpack.
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Dave,
I will agree with your CAYG aider. It revolutionized my steps. It's honestly the only reason I can't give them up. I am almost always carrying in 4 sticks. I think I like to hunt a little too high. I really like having the option to not stretch them out to the max to get to a certain height. With 4 sticks and a CAYG aider I can keep them at a very comfortable distance apart and puy my platform at 22-23'. Some times I hang my fourth stick and don't even use the aider if i'm at a height I wanted to be. I love to hunt cover. I like limbs about 14' high. If it's a bare tree I try to go up as high as I can.
 
I bought 8 Primal steps last year and put on the WE rope and WE bag. Obviously for size, it's hard to beat the steps unless you're using spurs or spikes. However, the reason I won't be using them again this year is for me, there was too much messing around with the ropes. If I didn't get it perfect and I tried to use an knaider or swaider, the step would always kick out once I loaded it. I had one too many slips like that and then abandoned the knaider/swaider entirely. At first, I thought it was because I was using 8mm static line so I bought the official WE nylon ropes. While that did help a lot, the movement was still there. Also, if you hunt in cold weather (think November and December in Minnesota), tying and untying each knot is absolutely brutal if you have to take your gloves off to work the knot.

This year, I have switched over to four, Hawk Helium sticks, in their full length but with the Amsteel rope mod. I chose not to cut them down because I have short legs and the steps work fine for me. I tried adding an Amsteel loop at the end of each stick for my knaider but because of my short legs, it doesn't work well. Instead, I use a 42" loop of tubular webbing looped around the top step to add one extra step between each stick. I just carry the loop up and reuse it as I climb each stick. I'm up the tree much faster, much simpler, and for me, much safer since I'm introducing less variables that can go wrong.

My biggest issue with the sticks was always going to be how to carry them. I resolved that by breaking them into two pairs and clipping them on the side of my pack where most people would hang trekking poles or ice axes. I added loops of Amsteel on the hip belt to support their weight. Consequently, I also use these loops to hold the sticks as I climb up the tree. I prefer the feel of the weight on my back pack as I climb as opposed to hanging them off my Mantis. The final package is bigger than carrying sticks, but works better for me.
 
After a lot of experimentation, I've landed on 1-sticking up and rappelling down (just because it's a lot faster than 1-sticking back down). This is the fastest, simplest, and safest (most secure feeling to me) climb/descend method I've found so far. Thanks to @boyne bowhunter and others that pointed me in this direction. It's been a great help.

Carrying multiple sticks just seems too heavy and awkward for me, and hard/noisy to carry them up the tree on a climb.

I bought an 8-pack of WE steps earlier this year and liked them. But they really tear up the soft aspen trunks I climb. Plus lots of fiddling with the ropes and re-camming to get each step properly set. I'm sure more practice would help, but the steps dig out a lot of bark on soft trees. I had the same issue with the teeth on the climbing stand I used to use. I don't like ripping up trees, and a stick (while not perfect) seems to do the best job of this. I will probably end up selling my WE steps.

My stick is a 2-step modified Helium (23" between steps), a single webbing aider (23") attached to the bottom step, and rope mod with a cam cleat. One 30' rope with spliced eye on one end acts as tether AND rappel line. Girth hitch to tree. Hang saddle bridge to the line using a Madrock Safeguard, GriGri, or similar device that does triple duty as a bridge connection, tether adjuster (like a ropeman or prussic), AND rappel friction device. This eliminates a separate tether and linemans belt (and associated hardware), and separate hang connection & adjuster. You are always connected to the tree. Just have to pay attention to managing tether slack as you climb. A lightweight linemans belt can be carried and used if necessary to bypass branches. This is rare on aspens so I don't carry one anymore.

Now I'm searching for the perfect small lightweight inexpensive rappel device that I can also hang from on the tether, and use it as an adjuster. Any other devices out there that can do this (similar to Safeguard or GriGri)? Maybe the Black Diamond ATC Pilot with an autoblock prussic?
 
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like.2.fly said:
After a lot of experimentation, I've landed on 1-sticking up and rappelling down (just because it's a lot faster than 1-sticking back down). This is the fastest, simplest, and safest (most secure feeling to me) climb/descend method I've found so far. Thanks to @boyne bowhunter and others that pointed me in this direction. It's been a great help.

Carrying multiple sticks just seems too heavy and awkward for me, and hard/noisy to carry them up the tree on a climb.

I bought an 8-pack of WE steps earlier this year and liked them. But they really tear up the soft aspen trunks I climb. Plus lots of fiddling with the ropes and re-camming to get each step properly set. I'm sure more practice would help, but the steps dig out a lot of bark on soft trees. I had the same issue with the teeth on the climbing stand I used to use. I don't like ripping up trees, and a stick (while not perfect) seems to do the best job of this. I will probably end up selling my WE steps.

My stick is a 2-step modified Helium (23" between steps), a single webbing aider (23") attached to the bottom step, and rope mod with a cam cleat. One 30' rope with spliced eye on one end acts as tether AND rappel line. Girth hitch to tree. Hang saddle bridge to the line using a Madrock Safeguard, GriGri, or similar device that does triple duty as a bridge connection, tether adjuster (like a ropeman or prussic), AND rappel friction device. This eliminates a separate tether and linemans belt (and associated hardware), and separate hang connection & adjuster. You are always connected to the tree. Just have to pay attention to managing tether slack as you climb. A lightweight linemans belt can be carried and used if necessary to bypass branches. This is rare on aspens so I don't carry one anymore.

Now I'm searching for the perfect small lightweight inexpensive rappel device that I can also hang from on the tether, and use it as an adjuster. Any other devices out there that can do this (similar to Safeguard or GriGri)? Maybe the Black Diamond ATC Pilot with an autoblock prussic?
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Perfect small lightweight rappel device? Figure 8. It can be used as a progress capture, but until you are very familiar it gets sketch. But if you take a figure 8, put the small side at 3oclock, pull a loop of rope from the back through the big loop, put that loop around the back of the small loop, then rotate DOWN, past 6 o'clock and when you get to 9 o'clock you stop your rope is now pressing on itself inside the figure 8. As long as you keep a touch of tension on it you are fine, if you let it go slack bad things happen.

But just for rappelling, follow those steps and use your left hand to pull the small end of the 8 towards 6 o'clock, and it will take you down, release pressure and you stop moving.

It seems complicated but it really is you are just spinning the figure 8 180 down from a side starting position to give rope on rope friction that has held me just fine in many situations.

Please do this at your own risk.

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Tried the WE steps and yikes! Way too much playing around with them and they tore the trees up. As far as stability are probably ok without the use of an aider. Beast sticks for me. They are so solid and cling to everything. Totally recommend them.
 
I like my modded heliums better than my stepps. For every rope around the tree I get 3 steps vs 1. My heliums are 2 steps with a moveable tubular step. They carry easy strapped to my platform. I'd like to buy 2 more and that would be perfect.
 
I have sticks and WE, by far I prefer the we steps. They pack much better and with a little practice are just as fast, with swaider and knaider and 6 steps I can get to almost 30ft and really that's just 5 steps, the 5th with my perch on it, the 6th goes on the opposite side of the perch. A little practice goes a long way.
I do use my sticks as a present if I need. Sticks just are to bulky for me here in New Hampshire.

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Sticks are more stable and less cumbersome. I have mine daisy chained. WE steps take alot of getting use to. Once you've hammered out the difficulties, they arent bad at all. The weight and pack ability is the best part.
Still hard to beat the stability of sticks though.
 
I've been using sticks longer than anything else. It's just second nature to put them up easily and they can go on soft trees, hard trees, knotty trees, ruff bark, flaky bark, smooth bark, crooked trees, what ever. I find my WE stepps finicky on some trees. And when I have to fight just one stepp, I feel like I would have been better just having my sticks. But when they all cam over tight the 1st time, they are great!
 
I had full length heliums modded with ropes/versa buttons that I used until last year. I bought some WE stepps this offseason and a knaider/swaider. Just used them for my first hunt on Friday and it only took 3 to get to 18ish feet at platform height and I'm only 5'5". Honestly I love the heliums but they're still annoying to pack in deep on public. I've thought about cutting them down but then I'd need additional steps and then there's still bulk. Why bother when the steps accomplish more and at less (with the k/s). I can see the complaints with the stepps people have mentioned on this thread but with enough practice I feel confident that the pros outweigh the cons. With being short, I was having to use some kind of aider or k/s with the heliums anyway so why not cut the bulk and weight? I do still own my heliums just in case I ever decide otherwise.
 
hokiehunter373 said:
I had full length heliums modded with ropes/versa buttons that I used until last year. I bought some WE stepps this offseason and a knaider/swaider. Just used them for my first hunt on Friday and it only took 3 to get to 18ish feet at platform height and I'm only 5'5". Honestly I love the heliums but they're still annoying to pack in deep on public. I've thought about cutting them down but then I'd need additional steps and then there's still bulk. Why bother when the steps accomplish more and at less (with the k/s). I can see the complaints with the stepps people have mentioned on this thread but with enough practice I feel confident that the pros outweigh the cons. With being short, I was having to use some kind of aider or k/s with the heliums anyway so why not cut the bulk and weight? I do still own my heliums just in case I ever decide otherwise.
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I never could get the Knaider/Swaider to be anywhere near as stable as my 2-step aiders for my cut down helium sticks. I will be moving to a 2-step dyneema CAYG aider this year with those sticks, so it will weigh basically nothing.

The Knaider/Swaider combo were awesome until I tried them on gnarly leaning trees with full gear on.... then, they became frickin death traps for me. I could definitely do just the Knaider, but that would require too many stepps for my liking.




................................................................................All climbing methods, platforms, saddle designs, and/or use of materials possibly mentioned in the post above are not peer reviewed for safety, and should only be used as an example of my own method. Do your own research and testing before becoming confident in any DIY solution to support your life.
-IkemanTx
 
IkemanTX said:
I never could get the Knaider/Swaider to be anywhere near as stable as my 2-step aiders for my cut down helium sticks. I will be moving to a 2-step dyneema CAYG aider this year with those sticks, so it will weigh basically nothing.

The Knaider/Swaider combo were awesome until I tried them on gnarly leaning trees with full gear on.... then, they became frickin death traps for me. I could definitely do just the Knaider, but that would require too many stepps for my liking.




................................................................................All climbing methods, platforms, saddle designs, and/or use of materials possibly mentioned in the post above are not peer reviewed for safety, and should only be used as an example of my own method. Do your own research and testing before becoming confident in any DIY solution to support your life.
-IkemanTx
Click to expand...
When I first tried them I was like "how the **** do the videos make this look so easy?!" but it just took some dialing in of the lengths of the straps and figuring out how to use the LB a little differently for me. Now that I've gotten that it feels so much better. I couldn't believe I was at hunting height just using 3 pounds of steps and my platform on Friday
 
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