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Turnabout is fair play.

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At the end of the day capitalism and laws of economics will play out accordingly. I'm not here to judge or - more importantly - make purchasing decisions based on claims on a public forum. The only stake I have here is being an end-user and consumer of both businesses products.

Personally the he-said-she-said stuff is childish and amatuer. This is not an attack or directed at any particular users, just my observations and opinions. I would probably handle it differently. And If someone were infringing on my patents and intellectual property they'd probably be hearing from a lawyer rather than reading about it on a forum. But that's just me. Talk is cheap, lawyers expensive, but lost revenue due to infringement... well now we're playing in the big leagues, aren't we?

Again, good luck to ALL saddle manufacturers. I'm very excited for both products and, honestly, am having a tough time figuring out where my dollars are going to be spent. That's a very good problem to have as a consumer.
 
d_rek said:
At the end of the day capitalism and laws of economics will play out accordingly. I'm not here to judge or - more importantly - make purchasing decisions based on claims on a public forum. The only stake I have here is being an end-user and consumer of both businesses products.

Personally the he-said-she-said stuff is childish and amatuer. This is not an attack or directed at any particular users, just my observations and opinions. I would probably handle it differently. And If someone were infringing on my patents and intellectual property they'd probably be hearing from a lawyer rather than reading about it on a forum. But that's just me. Talk is cheap, lawyers expensive, but lost revenue due to infringement... well now we're playing in the big leagues, aren't we?

Again, good luck to ALL saddle manufacturers. I'm very excited for both products and, honestly, am having a tough time figuring out where my dollars are going to be spent. That's a very good problem to have as a consumer.
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2x


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Honestly the first time I saw the Mantis my thoughts went directly to Boswell knowing how much time he put into helping develop the Kestrel. I kinda figured he might have some strong feelings toward the Mantis being so similar to what he helped develop and can't blame him for feeling a bit infringed upon. I have nothing negative to say so will end it there. Hopefully saddle hunting really takes off and sales boom on both. Competition can be a good thing and breed even better products in the future.
 
When I read email/ text/ or forum post that are edgy, negative or out of character- I always look at the time sent.
Not much of a coincidence they are sent late night. I have done it myself too many times.
Good Job and Thank You Red- perfect handling shutting it down, but leaving it up so we could see the details.

Maybe what Bobby said was needed, This site leaned toward Kestrel since I joined, I bought one, but I had planned to make a Sit Drag for lighter weight scouting/ hunting. Now we lean Mantis which replaced my Sit Drag plans. Maybe we leaned Guido, Sit Drag or any of the others before Kestrel? Who knows the future? ARC- New Guido- New Kestrel- New Sit Drag...very exciting times
 
sdonx said:
When I read email/ text/ or forum post that are edgy, negative or out of character- I always look at the time sent.
Not much of a coincidence they are sent late night. I have done it myself too many times.
Good Job and Thank You Red- perfect handling shutting it down, but leaving it up so we could see the details.

Maybe what Bobby said was needed, This site leaned toward Kestrel since I joined, I bought one, but I had planned to make a Sit Drag for lighter weight scouting/ hunting. Now we lean Mantis which replaced my Sit Drag plans. Maybe we leaned Guido, Sit Drag or any of the others before Kestrel? Who knows the future? ARC- New Guido- New Kestrel- New Sit Drag...very exciting times
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That new guidos web looks interesting for day long sits


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I love my Kestrel it is a super saddle and the best one I ever used. It is quality all the way. I have 3 different saddles I like them all but the Kestrel is my go to. I never met Bobby but I enjoy his videos and the work he put in on the Kestrel he should be proud. I known a lot of long hours and work went into it. Just like treestands there are many different models and people have their preferences. Ever since I joined this site there's never been any dispute her arguments just friendly disagreements. I sure hope it stays the way it was when I joined. We are all adults and we should be able to get along. Let us just all enjoy the site and all the things that saddle Hunters can learn from it. Just my thoughts.
 
@bowhunter15 that was a great video.

I absolutely understand Bobby’s frustration. It is frustrating spending considerable amounts of time to develop something only to have that technology stolen, reused, possibly improved upon. It’s not just the outdoor industry but most every thing we use in society is the same way. At some point in the early days of mankind someone discovered a sharpened stick was a better weapon than a blunt one. It wasn’t long before everyone had sharp sticks. It’s just the world we live in. The kestrel was a completely new design. The idea of a bridge wasn’t new it was copied from someone else as was the molle webbing. The continuous loop of webbing with fabric seat in between is similar to the sit drag. Much better made and redesigned but still similar. I think I’ve seen several sit drags on here with molle webbing and a waist belt.
The side adjustment straps were unique. So were the first rubber soled shoes.
 
Dewey said:
Honestly the first time I saw the Mantis my thoughts went directly to Boswell knowing how much time he put into helping develop the Kestrel. I kinda figured he might have some strong feelings toward the Mantis being so similar to what he helped develop and can't blame him for feeling a bit infringed upon. I have nothing negative to say so will end it there. Hopefully saddle hunting really takes off and sales boom on both. Competition can be a good thing and breed even better products in the future.
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I felt the same way the first time I saw the Mantis. I know that Bobby spent many long hours, days, weeks and months developing the Kestrel to meet the demands of the saddle hunters on this forum. How many manufactures will do that to meet he requirements of such a small cross section of the hunting community?
I'm excited that a group of dedicated saddle hunters decided to get in the manufacturing game to produce a different kind of saddle but I was surprised to see it was just a copy of the Kestrel, made with lighter materials. Were they aware of the development of the mesh Kestrel that was taking place? I don't want to cause any hard feelings but just because something isn't illegal to copy if it's not covered by a patent, does it make it right to do it?

I've used saddles from time to time over the last 40 years using an Anderson Tree Sling, Sneaky Sac, Treesuit, Trophyline and now the Kestrel. The selling point to me for the Kestrel was the the fact that it was smaller than the TL, it didn't have a fixed bridge and it had quick simple buckles to make it quicker and easier to take on and off. Myself, having a saddle that weighs a few ounces less than the Kestrel isn't a selling point. I carry less weight with me than many others here by the other equipment I use. My recurve weighs much less than any compound or heaven forbid, crossbow. I don't carry a backpack full of camera gear and I don't carry a range finder. Why carry the extra weight when I'm only shooting out to twenty yards anyway?

The Predator on the other hand is an answer for saddle hunters wanting a pivot style stand. In the past your only choice was a DIY version. Kudos to the Tethrd crew for putting a solid looking pivot platform on the market. I may have to invest in one of those...
 
ricky racer said:
The Predator on the other hand is an answer for saddle hunters wanting a pivot style stand. In the past your only choice was a DIY version. Kudos to the Tethrd crew for putting a solid looking pivot platform on the market. I may have to invest in one of those...
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I agree. The platform looks sick.



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I agree with much of what has been stated above. I can see this from both sides. One thing I really appreciate, that stands out; @redsquirrel has some thankless duties here, that are performed exceedingly well! 99% of the time this site is professional & completely aboveboard, & the times it starts to falter a bit Red brings it back. Thanks !! I love this forum & the think tank that resides here! Whenever you get this many guys especially a lot of alphas & doers it’s bound to get chippy from time to time. Not to mention that most everyone lives to tinker & innovate, improve. I know it’s cliche but imitation is the best form of flattery, how many diy projects here are 100% originals? Most are adaptations & spin offs to customize or improve faults. I really enjoy what we have here! Many concepts on this site are some type of intellectual infringement ( if it’s a legal business matter that’s best handled elsewhere) I’m relatively new to all this just got my kestrel last year & love it. I love gear & like to test new stuff, I end up only incorporating some of it into my kit. I’ve tried 3 different climbing methods since end of last year & still haven’t got my spurs yet. I thoroughly enjoy the ideas, opinions & camaraderie on this forum, I have sharpened my skills & learned a lot , overall am much safer! All that to say they’re is plenty of room for innovation keep it that way.
 
d_rek said:
I agree. The platform looks sick.



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The platform looks like the real deal. I have mostly used ameristeps up to now. I have an xop platform but found it too bulky, hard to lock on and hard to carry. I ordered a platform and look forward to seeing if it will replace the ameristeps. I ordered a mantis but may not have ordered it if I had seen the new @bowhunter15 video first. He makes great videos and the new kestrel looks good.
The mantis does look similar to the new kestrel. I am not sure what came first
 
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Ontariofarmer said:
The platform looks like the real deal. I have mostly used ameristeps up to now. I have an xop platform but found it too bulky, hard to lock on and hard to carry. I ordered a platform and look forward to seeing if it will replace the ameristeps. I ordered a mantis but may not have ordered it if I had seen the new @bowhunter15 video first. He makes great videos and the new kestrel looks good.
The mantis does look very similar.
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I’m in the same boat as you, haven’t really found anything I like better than the ring of ameristeps. Have had multiple platforms. I ordered the predator platform last week. I had the mantis in the cart but honestly, couldn’t pull the trigger b/c I’m not sure it’s a huge upgrade over my kestrel. So I’ll wait & can always pick one up later if it’s as awesome as the marketing behind it. That being said Ive been intrigued by new guidos web for really cold weather sits (could wear HBS stock)vs. making major modifications to my HBS.........
 
Bigterp said:
I’m in the same boat as you, haven’t really found anything I like better than the ring of ameristeps. Have had multiple platforms. I ordered the predator platform last week. I had the mantis in the cart but honestly, couldn’t pull the trigger b/c I’m not sure it’s a huge upgrade over my kestrel. So I’ll wait & can always pick one up later if it’s as awesome as the marketing behind it. That being said Ive been intrigued by new guidos web for really cold weather sits (could wear HBS stock)vs. making major modifications to my HBS.........
Click to expand...
I always liked the guidos web for some things. Like turkey hunting this spring. I also liked it for long sits or short walks or cold days. The new web looks like it may be a huge upgrade. I have killed half of my turkeys out of my web.
 
Ontariofarmer said:
I always liked the guidos web for some things. Like turkey hunting this spring. I also liked it for long sits or short walks or cold days. The new web looks like it may be a huge upgrade. I have killed half of my turkeys out of my web.
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I keep hearing about the new Web but I can't find anything when I search for it........can someone post a link?
 
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I agree with many people in this thread, and personally, I own a Kestrel and also ordered a Mantis, I really want to just enjoy hunting from saddles and welcome all the new products that will make our passion easier and more accessible to others. In my opinion, Bobby and Aerohunter have done and will continue to do some great things with the Kestrel but I also feel what Tethrd brought to the market was a completely dedicated saddle hunting website that would supply every product a new saddle hunter would ever need (except for climbing method but I think that is next). This is a huge step for the saddle hunting and will ensure continued growth. Both these companies need not be concerned as much about fighting for the 1% of hunters that are already sold on saddle hunting but concentrate on the other 99% who need a more than one successful saddle company to convince them to try something as far outside the box as saddle hunting is perceived.
 
I too bought the Mantis and own the Kestrel. I am sure the finished product is going to be exceptional and well made.
 
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