Unrecoverable

[Joe_Bow]

I was hunting yesterday AM on an 18 acre parcel in the Hudson Valley NY.. It is narrow, has 3 neighboring properties (2 owned by the same person) and a very busy road near it. Around 8 am 4 does walk by my stand, I bark at one to stop, she does and I hit her in at least 1 lung. The blood is very bright red and full of air. She and the other 3 does run off....and keep running. I hear a car on the road honk its horn for 5-10 seconds. I think "I'm f'd". I wait for 20min, get down and get ready for a blood track. I tracked it for 2 hours and found the spot where she crossed the road to the neighbors unoccupied land.
I pull up OnX maps and see that it is owned by an LLC on Long Island - and it is basically a shell company for an older couple so they can hold their land in trust for their children. My property owning friend doesn't know them. I can't find a number.
The other neighbor wanted to call the police and have my car towed. Why? I was parked on my buddy's land, off the road...so no legal reason. He just wanted to discourage people from hunting and was being an a$$ hat.

I couldn't find any blood on the road or the other side of the road. So I lost the track, didn't have permission, and couldn't find any contact info to get permission.

This is my first non-recovery and it much more depressing than I expected. It has really put water on the fire of hunting this year.

My takeaways are these:

1) I'm going to write the address of the LLC and ask for permission to recover any future deer from their land.
2) Small parcels of land require much deadlier shots.
3) To be careful of the direction the deer are moving. If shot, where will they be heading.

I realize nature does not waste and that all manner of animals will feed off of this doe. But its not the point. I'm going to do what I can to continue training and learn. Its the only way I feel like I can honor the life I took.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

I was hunting yesterday AM on an 18 acre parcel in the Hudson Valley NY.. It is narrow, has 3 neighboring properties (2 owned by the same person) and a very busy road near it. Around 8 am 4 does walk by my stand, I bark at one to stop, she does and I hit her in at least 1 lung. The blood is very bright red and full of air. She and the other 3 does run off....and keep running. I hear a car on the road honk its horn for 5-10 seconds. I think "I'm f'd". I wait for 20min, get down and get ready for a blood track. I tracked it for 2 hours and found the spot where she crossed the road to the neighbors unoccupied land.
I pull up OnX maps and see that it is owned by an LLC on Long Island - and it is basically a shell company for an older couple so they can hold their land in trust for their children. My property owning friend doesn't know them. I can't find a number.
The other neighbor wanted to call the police and have my car towed. Why? I was parked on my buddy's land, off the road...so no legal reason. He just wanted to discourage people from hunting and was being an a$$ hat.

I couldn't find any blood on the road or the other side of the road. So I lost the track, didn't have permission, and couldn't find any contact info to get permission.

This is my first non-recovery and it much more depressing than I expected. It has really put water on the fire of hunting this year.

My takeaways are these:

1) I'm going to write the address of the LLC and ask for permission to recover any future deer from their land.
2) Small parcels of land require much deadlier shots.
3) To be careful of the direction the deer are moving. If shot, where will they be heading.

I realize nature does not waste and that all manner of animals will feed off of this doe. But its not the point. I'm going to do what I can to continue training and learn. Its the only way I feel like I can honor the life I took.

Did you try calling the DNR? They may be able to help get you access for this one recovery.
I’m participating in a management hunt starting tomorrow, surrounded by hikers and bikers and similar private land. I’m taking your post to heart, and will be shooting a few extra arrows today to be sure of myself. I’ve also decided that 20 yards is going to be my max range in this parcel, and your post has solidified that strategy for me.
Thanks for sharing, and good luck!

 

[rambotogo]

Just me , I would go after the deer discreetly as possible . If I were caught ,pay my fine . I would try to make a better shot next time and maybe fine a better place to hunt in order to avoid these types of problems.

 

[Joe_Bow]

The DEC in NY

Did you try calling the DNR? They may be able to help get you access for this one recovery.
I’m participating in a management hunt starting tomorrow, surrounded by hikers and bikers and similar private land. I’m taking your post to heart, and will be shooting a few extra arrows today to be sure of myself. I’ve also decided that 20 yards is going to be my max range in this parcel, and your post has solidified that strategy for me.
Thanks for sharing, and good luck!

The DEC in NY does not advertise any kind of help to access the land. But, I will call them today and see if there is something they can do "off the books."

Just me , I would go after the deer discreetly as possible . If I were caught ,pay my fine . I would try to make a better shot next time and maybe fine a better place to hunt in order to avoid these types of problems.

I would do this if I felt like I wouldn't screw up my friend's land, or if he said he would be okay with his neighbors complaining. The people around this area vary widely between die-hard hunters and vehement anti-hunters. When the land is owned by an LLC on Long Island, it could be anyone's guess as to what it is used for and if there are cameras/other hunters. So, someone walkin around the land could hurt by buddy's reputation and I would lose the privilege. I agree with the better shot and perhaps a better spot on the property. While I definitely hit a lung, I should have made it a sure thing. No ones fault but mine.

 

[Cript2014]

Things happen man. As hard as it is to swallow. I had a big buck come in this year on me quartered hard at me. He was at 22yards he went behind a big tree I drew waiting on him to step out he stepped out but only his front half was showing. That was all I needed since he was quartered to me. He had me pegged and wasn’t coming any more so I took the shot. I put the arrow in his front shoulder to exit behind the opposite shoulder should have caught all vitals going through. As I released the arrow he turned and ducked the arrow hit him in the jaw and deflected to hit him behind the shoulder I was aiming at. I didn’t know this at the time till I found him. I had to get a dog to find him. I got one lung and liver. What I’m trying to say is sometimes they do things that we can’t expect to happen. We try to be as accurate and deadly as we can. If you didn’t feel bad about loosing this deer something wouldn’t be right with you as a hunter. Keep tying to get permission so if it happens again you can recover your deer.

 

[sweats]

This is one of the big concerns and questions I had around hunting smaller parcels.

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[slonstdy]

"Tis better to ask for forgiveness than permission" especially here in NY. I hunt the Hudson Valley too and know what you mean. More than likely the land owners will deny your request to access their land no matter how good your intentions may be. More and more "city" folk are moving north and bringing their self righteous attitudes with them. Informing them you harmed an innocent creature that has a right to live will have them looking at you with contempt. I would do the animal justice and search for it and only concern myself with boundaries IF I was seen and approached. At that point it would be "Oh I'm so sorry, I didn't realize this was your property..."

 

[sweats]

"Tis better to ask for forgiveness than permission" especially here in NY. I hunt the Hudson Valley too and know what you mean. More than likely the land owners will deny your request to access their land no matter how good your intentions may be. More and more "city" folk are moving north and bringing their self righteous attitudes with them. Informing them you harmed an innocent creature that has a right to live will have them looking at you with contempt. I would do the animal justice and search for it and only concern myself with boundaries IF I was seen and approached. At that point it would be "Oh I'm so sorry, I didn't realize this was your property..."

As a property owner, I disagree. I expect people to respect my property line and I do the same to theirs.

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[Joe_Bow]

As a property owner, I disagree. I expect people to respect my property line and I do the same to theirs.

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This is how I feel as well. I own property - not huntable - but when people randomly walk across it, I get really touchy. If someone asks, no problem - I just want to know their intention.

I am going to try to talk to the neighbor that wanted to call the police. I'd like to put their mind at ease so they know I'm not trying to hunt their piece. I'd like to get permission to recover a deer on their land too.

 

[Bigterp]

I live & sometimes hunt in a highly populated area. A positive view of hunting is also in the minority. I think you are completely right how you approached this scenario! I’ve been in your shoes & was unable to make a recovery due to permission/access. It did change my shot selection in these tight areas. I think your on the right path. I now really limit my shot distance & have gotten really good at reading body language & passing on shots that are less than ideal. In the end sometimes it just happens even though that sucks. Btw I ain’t all high & mighty, been there done that. Just disagree w/ all the do what ya want & play dumb, just makes us not look good.

 

[Joe_Bow]

I live & sometimes hunt in a highly populated area. A positive view of hunting is also in the minority. I think you are completely right how you approached this scenario! I’ve been in your shoes & was unable to make a recovery due to permission/access. It did change my shot selection in these tight areas. I think your on the right path. I now really limit my shot distance & have gotten really good at reading body language & passing on shots that are less than ideal. In the end sometimes it just happens even though that sucks. Btw I ain’t all high & mighty, been there done that. Just disagree w/ all the do what ya want & play dumb, just makes us not look good.

Thanks for this. It helps with the depression to know that others learned to adjust shot selection and read body language after a similar experience. I should have passed or just drilled both lungs. The excitement of getting a deer in one of my first sits clouded my judgement.
I agree on the trespass too. Regardless of how anyone feels or thinks about it, all hunters contribute towards how others view hunting. It is something I try to be conscious of so that I might communicate the importance of hunting.

 

[slonstdy]

It's funny how people choose what laws to follow and what to turn a blind eye to. I bet everyone has gone over the speed limit yet it's a clear violation of the law. Why is searching for a mortally wounded animal on private property such an injustice? By no means am I advocating hunting on someones land without permission but following a blood trail to recover an animal on an absentee landowners property is a judgement call and know the choice I'd make every time.

Most definitely contact a land owner if he inhabits the property. I agree I am not comfortable with strangers walking on my land but if they come to the door and explain their situation I would grant them access and offer my help.

Let's play out a few scenarios...

You arrow a deer and see it run onto or the blood trail leads onto private land:
1. if lands are occupied seek landowners permission:
A. permission granted and you continue to track or
B. permission denied - game over, chalk it up as a loss and modify hunting strategy
2. unoccupied/absentee landowner:
A. continue to track deer, recover and vacate asap without incident and put it in the win column
B. continue to track deer and get approached by a neighbor:
1a. respectfully explain your situation to put minds at ease and either continue with mission or leave area if asked to do so
2b. local authorities respond - respectfully explain situation and cooperate fully. Possibly receive citation for trespassing...
3. try to obtain absentee landowners permission:
A. same as #1
4. no attempt made to recover because "it's not the right thing to do" or unable to contact landowner:
A. landowner finds rotting deer carcass on front lawn, walkway, pool etc...
1a. anti-hunter/animal lover landowner:
- you just gave him fuel for his agenda and proof that hunters indiscriminately kill and waste
wildlife/resources
- has to remove/ have carcass removed
2b. fellow outdoorsman/hunter landowner:
- upset that whoever killed the deer didn't have the decency/ethics to properly track and recover the animal
- has to remove carcass
B. deer dies in the out of sight - becomes food for other animals
C. deer travels past private land to permissible access/public land:
1a. - could have recovered animal with different egress route

The odds of a favorable outcome as far as recovery seem stacked against the hunter. It's a 50/50 if you ask permission, a 50/50 if you are approached and a complete loss if you don't even try, for whatever reason you deem logical.

Unless I have been denied access to a property I will do what's ethical for the animal and not concern myself with the views and feelings of others. If that means crossing a boundary so be it. I stand strong by my "rather ask for forgiveness than permission" statement regarding uninhabited lands. Hunters are not viewed in a positive light by the public so I will do all I can to remain invisible to them and will not leave an animal behind to further taint our image.

 

[Joe_Bow]

4. no attempt made to recover because "it's not the right thing to do" or unable to contact landowner

Funny way to write "illegal in the state of NY"

 

[Bigterp]

That’s a lot of well thought out scenarios! I do appreciate the thoughtful response. I just can’t get there with you that trespassing is justified given the circumstances. I was only trying to encourage the OP on his circumstances of a deer that didn’t expire on property he has access to.

 

[sweats]

It's funny how people choose what laws to follow and what to turn a blind eye to. I bet everyone has gone over the speed limit yet it's a clear violation of the law. Why is searching for a mortally wounded animal on private property such an injustice? By no means am I advocating hunting on someones land without permission but following a blood trail to recover an animal on an absentee landowners property is a judgement call and know the choice I'd make every time.

Most definitely contact a land owner if he inhabits the property. I agree I am not comfortable with strangers walking on my land but if they come to the door and explain their situation I would grant them access and offer my help.

Let's play out a few scenarios...

You arrow a deer and see it run onto or the blood trail leads onto private land:
1. if lands are occupied seek landowners permission:
A. permission granted and you continue to track or
B. permission denied - game over, chalk it up as a loss and modify hunting strategy
2. unoccupied/absentee landowner:
A. continue to track deer, recover and vacate asap without incident and put it in the win column
B. continue to track deer and get approached by a neighbor:
1a. respectfully explain your situation to put minds at ease and either continue with mission or leave area if asked to do so
2b. local authorities respond - respectfully explain situation and cooperate fully. Possibly receive citation for trespassing...
3. try to obtain absentee landowners permission:
A. same as #1
4. no attempt made to recover because "it's not the right thing to do" or unable to contact landowner:
A. landowner finds rotting deer carcass on front lawn, walkway, pool etc...
1a. anti-hunter/animal lover landowner:
- you just gave him fuel for his agenda and proof that hunters indiscriminately kill and waste
wildlife/resources
- has to remove/ have carcass removed
2b. fellow outdoorsman/hunter landowner:
- upset that whoever killed the deer didn't have the decency/ethics to properly track and recover the animal
- has to remove carcass
B. deer dies in the out of sight - becomes food for other animals
C. deer travels past private land to permissible access/public land:
1a. - could have recovered animal with different egress route

The odds of a favorable outcome as far as recovery seem stacked against the hunter. It's a 50/50 if you ask permission, a 50/50 if you are approached and a complete loss if you don't even try, for whatever reason you deem logical.

Unless I have been denied access to a property I will do what's ethical for the animal and not concern myself with the views and feelings of others. If that means crossing a boundary so be it. I stand strong by my "rather ask for forgiveness than permission" statement regarding uninhabited lands. Hunters are not viewed in a positive light by the public so I will do all I can to remain invisible to them and will not leave an animal behind to further taint our image.

We can play out all kinds of scenarios. Suppose you don't contact the landowner and decide to go onto property you do not have permission on.

It just so happens the owner is out for a hike that day and crosses paths with you. They've never seen you before and here you are on their property with all your hunting gear. I wouldn't assume you were telling me the truth about why you were there, would tell you to leave, and probably press charges.

Suppose they have cameras up and get you dragging a deer out. Sure could look like you were hunting their place without permission. Statutes vary, but you could be looking at some serious fines and confiscation of your equipment.

In terms of giving ammo to the anti-hunters, trespassing is a good way to do it. "Oh sure, hunters are all a bunch of ethical sportsmen who follow the rules, unless no one is watching."

Those are the tamer scenarios really. You don't know whose land that is and who might be there. A lot of people are downright aggressive about keeping people out. Do you want to potentially risk your physical safety?

I agree, it sucks to not be able to recover a wounded animal. I'll do whatever I can to recover wounded game. I consider that my obligation as a sportsman. However, if I can't get permission or am denied it, that's it, game over.

I'd beat myself up over it and lose a good amount of sleep. Why didn't I spend more time at the range? Why did I take the shot? Why did I setup there? Why didn't I try to get in touch with neighboring property owners before the season?

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[rambotogo]

We can play out all kinds of scenarios. Suppose you don't contact the landowner and decide to go onto property you do not have permission on.

It just so happens the owner is out for a hike that day and crosses paths with you. They've never seen you before and here you are on their property with all your hunting gear. I wouldn't assume you were telling me the truth about why you were there, would tell you to leave, and probably press charges.

Suppose they have cameras up and get you dragging a deer out. Sure could look like you were hunting their place without permission. Statutes vary, but you could be looking at some serious fines and confiscation of your equipment.

In terms of giving ammo to the anti-hunters, trespassing is a good way to do it. "Oh sure, hunters are all a bunch of ethical sportsmen who follow the rules, unless no one is watching."

Those are the tamer scenarios really. You don't know whose land that is and who might be there. A lot of people are downright aggressive about keeping people out. Do you want to potentially risk your physical safety?

I agree, it sucks to not be able to recover a wounded animal. I'll do whatever I can to recover wounded game. I consider that my obligation as a sportsman. However, if I can't get permission or am denied it, that's it, game over.

I'd beat myself up over it and lose a good amount of sleep. Why didn't I spend more time at the range? Why did I take the shot? Why did I setup there? Why didn't I try to get in touch with neighboring property owners before the season?

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One more what if : You shoot a 200in deer it goes over on the posted land 30feet and dies .You can clearly see him. Be honest what would you do?
After trying to find the landowner to no avail would you : 1 Go get the deer 2 Let him rot. In my state we could be fined for killing and leaving game to rot , Yes, trespassing is against the law also . So what would you do ?

 

[EricS]

I guess the moral of the story is try to gain permission before you find yourself in this situation and try to avoid hunting where the deer may go onto property you can’t gain permission to. A lot of us start scouting in February or March. If we are preparing locations then why aren’t we covering our bases with neighboring landowners. You may even gain access to hunt that property. Of course sometimes we find places or gain access to places in the middle of the season and it’s easy to grab our gear and go hunting. A properly hit deer usually doesn’t travel very far at all.
I own land. I don’t want you knocking on my door at 10:00 wanting permission to look for a deer. I don’t want you grid searching my property ruining my hunting either. If you have really good blood just go get the deer and get the heck out before I catch you. No harm no foul. I’ll do all I can to gain permission to go get my deer. Our game warden has been known to assist in the recovery but it needs to be one of those situations where you can either see the deer or there’s such a blood trail that there’s no doubt the deer is close and dead. If all those options fail I’ll still go get the deer. Now I’m a situation like the op had where you can’t find blood evidence that the deer did indeed cross the road I would probably not go over there. It’s very possible with cars coming and horns honking that the deer turned around and doubled back. I also would have checked across the road the width of the right away which can be different in every state.

 

[boyne bowhunter]

One more what if : You shoot a 200in deer it goes over on the posted land 30feet and dies .You can clearly see him. Be honest what would you do?
After trying to find the landowner to no avail would you : 1 Go get the deer 2 Let him rot. In my state we could be fined for killing and leaving game to rot , Yes, trespassing is against the law also . So what would you do ?

I have a friend who crossed a dilapidated fence row to retrieve a deer that had expired within 10yds (in plain view) from the public land he was hunting. He dragged the carcass back over the grounded fence wire and onto public land to field dress the deer. The landowner happened to be in the woods and saw him and called the DNR. By the time my buddy got the deer to his truck the CO was there waiting for him. He ended up getting ticketed for recreational trespass which is a misdemeanor offense in Michigan. That means the offense stays on his record for life and could affect any future background checks.

 

[Bigterp]

One more what if : You shoot a 200in deer it goes over on the posted land 30feet and dies .You can clearly see him. Be honest what would you do?
After trying to find the landowner to no avail would you : 1 Go get the deer 2 Let him rot. In my state we could be fined for killing and leaving game to rot , Yes, trespassing is against the law also . So what would you do ?

That’s a legit game warden scenario right there! I would be ok w/ the outcome.

 

[dblomberg4]

One more what if : You shoot a 200in deer it goes over on the posted land 30feet and dies .You can clearly see him. Be honest what would you do?
After trying to find the landowner to no avail would you : 1 Go get the deer 2 Let him rot. In my state we could be fined for killing and leaving game to rot , Yes, trespassing is against the law also . So what would you do ?

I would call the local state DNR / Game and fish if I gave a reasonable effort to contact a land owner and wasn't able to. In a lot of states it's legal to retrieve deer on unposted private lands. I think some states also allow for retrieving deer on private lands with an escort from a DNR / Game and fish officer.

Here is a quote from the Minnesota DNR about this exact topic.

"A person on foot may, without permission, enter land that is not posted to retrieve a wounded wild animal that was lawfully shot, but not remain on the land after being told to leave"

The Game Wardens / DNR is an often underutilized public resource, If you are ever in doubt pick up your phone and call them. Be familiar with all hunting / trespassing laws and be respectful to other peoples property.