cville_bowhunter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2022
- Messages
- 272
You just perfectly summarized hunting and hunters in a nutshell!It’s obvious people have strong opinions, one way or the other. The good thing is, we are free to believe what we want and what experience tells us. I agree there is a lot we don’t know.
There are many books to be read, but they too are mostly opinion, with the intent to shape yours.
I'll paraphrase a quote from Randi that sums up my position on the 6th-sense:
"I've said it before: there are two sorts of 6th-sense deniers. One sort claims that there is no 6th-sense, the other claims that there is no evidence that proves the existence of a 6th-sense; I belong to the latter group, because if I were to claim that no 6th-sense exists, I would have to produce evidence to establish that claim, and I cannot. 6th-sense believers have by far the easier position; they say they believe in a 6th-sense because that's their preference, and they've heard other hunters talk about it. That's their right."
Randi's statement is about evidence being criteria for belief.Is there really a difference between deniers who can't prove there isn't a 6th sense and believers who can't prove there is a 6th sense? Other than, they really belong to the other two groups...those who believe there is a 6th sense and those who don't...but won't openly admit it.
The middle ground is the group who says we really don't know.
Seems to be a lot of that going on in society these days.Randi's statement is about evidence being criteria for belief.
"There's a lot we don't know" is a true statement. But it's often used to muddy waters or allow for belief in a thing lacking evidence.
The burden of proof is not on the person who doesn't believe in a thing lacking evidence. I'm under no obligation to respect your claim that you have an invisible, floating dragon in your basement that breathes heatless fire. My "belief" in its non-existence is a different thing than your belief in its existence. Otherwise, we'd have to also allow that it's quite possible that gremlins live in my sock drawer, the people you see in the mirror are evil spirits, there's a Flying Spaghetti monster that gave birth to all the bigfeet...literally any combination of words a person could make up and profess belief in would have to be given consideration.
More dangerous postmodern propaganda on this site… acknowledging the complexity of things and insisting on evidence for beliefs gets too darn confusing!I think everybody should be familiar with the work of James Randi, a magician whose estate is still offering a $1,000,000 prize to any person who can demonstrate psychic power in front of a panel of scientists and magicians. Over the course of his career Randi illustrated how a myriad of psychic performances could be performed using simple suggestion, manipulation, and sleight-of-hand.
I think everybody should also read Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World. His example of the dragon he keeps in his garage is relevant to this conversation, as is his "baloney detection kit" and list of logical fallacies. It's a short read that does a really good job of setting up the basis for scientific skepticism as a tool for evaluating claims.
I have found no research indicating that deer possess anything other than keen hearing, excellent peripheral vision attuned to movement, and a sense of smell orders of magnitude higher than ours. That doesn't mean that some additional sense doesn't exist, but I also don't think we need a 6th sense to explain any accounts I've seen of a deer detecting a hunter. It's a simpler, cleaner theory to assume that a deer smelled/saw/heard a hunter with senses that are widely documented, than it is to invoke a magical additional one that we have no evidence of.
I'll paraphrase a quote from Randi that sums up my position on the 6th-sense:
"I've said it before: there are two sorts of 6th-sense deniers. One sort claims that there is no 6th-sense, the other claims that there is no evidence that proves the existence of a 6th-sense; I belong to the latter group, because if I were to claim that no 6th-sense exists, I would have to produce evidence to establish that claim, and I cannot. 6th-sense believers have by far the easier position; they say they believe in a 6th-sense because that's their preference, and they've heard other hunters talk about it. That's their right."
Randi's statement is about evidence being criteria for belief.
"There's a lot we don't know" is a true statement. But it's often used to muddy waters or allow for belief in a thing lacking evidence.
The burden of proof is not on the person who doesn't believe in a thing lacking evidence. I'm under no obligation to respect your claim that you have an invisible, floating dragon in your basement that breathes heatless fire. My "belief" in its non-existence is a different thing than your belief in its existence. Otherwise, we'd have to also allow that it's quite possible that gremlins live in my sock drawer, the people you see in the mirror are evil spirits, there's a Flying Spaghetti monster that gave birth to all the bigfeet...literally any combination of words a person could make up and profess belief in would have to be given consideration.
Both of those statements are definitely examples of the appeal to ignorance fallacy, you're right. However, since they're mutually incompatible claims, one of them has to be true, regardless of the fallacious reasoning. What's a homo to do?Both are appeals to ignorance
There is a 6th sense, nobody has proven there isn't
There isn't a 6th sense, nobody has proven there is
Both of those statements are definitely examples of the appeal to ignorance fallacy, you're right. However, since they're mutually incompatible claims, one of them has to be true, regardless of the fallacious reasoning. What's a homo to do?
My paraphrasing of Randi's quote was an attempt not to make that mistake. It looks like i kept talking long enough to hang myself.
I'll try to be more careful with my phrasing.
Currently, the lack of evidence for a 6th sense, combined with its inscrutable nature, makes its existence unlikely to me. Given the difficulty people have comprehending the magnitude of a deer's well-documented senses, I posit it much more likely that the perceived 6th sense is a byproduct of human ignorance of a deer's olfactory faculties and air currents. I'd advise against purchase of a HECS suit or payments to horse whisperers, pending further studies.
I still believe that in the real world, the appeal to ignorance fallacy's harm decidedly tilts towards using it to defend absurd claims. Claims without evidence aren't worth much. I think we have plenty of evidence suggesting that the magnitude of a whitetails senses are unintuitive to the average hunter.