Why you should consider learning how to rappel

[TNSTAAFL]

I have been looking on the Tube at madrocks and figure 8 rappel and came across this. Any opinions?

Been watching this and considering. A few thoughts:

Pros:
Works with 8mm in spec. 8mm is so much more packable than the 9's I've used with the Madrock.

Hands feee operation. While using hands free may teach poor rappel tehnique, it is nice to know it is considered a hands free device. Art least as far as I know from the video that is. It would not surprise me to hear that the company and or safety experts caution against ever taking your break hand off the rope.

No known issues (so far) with a backup such as an autoblock tied below the device for extra confidence in hands free situations.

Quiet. For a metal device it seems really easy to make this thing effectively silent to use.

Cons:
Pricey. Especially for such a simple device. Seems like this should be a $40-50 item. But if this is the end of the perfect rappel device search (fat chance) no big deal. It's no worse than all this other crap I buy.

Not an easy on/off install. I think this device just lives on the rope when used optimally. Some don't like this, but not a signifcant concern for me.

Impact on rope. This one is still a question for me that has not been fully addressed. An unanswered comment in the youtube video is all I've seen about it. The possible problem is how the thin lever that pinches the rope to hold position puts significant pressure on the rope and its core. I wonder that since this is designed for 1-time use (the rope. Not necessarily the device) in a rescue situation that this isn't a concern for the company in terms of its intended use, but for us with repeated use on the same rope could pose a problem. Add to that the warranty is void when used with ropes not specified by the company, and Oplux or ResTech are not in that group specified. This is probably more to do with fire/heat resistance than device compatibility, but who knows.

Just some random internet dude's thoughts.

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[GeoFish]

Thanks, you made some good points.
I was not sure if you could use this with just one hand.
If I fell a little and disabled one arm, it would be nice to be able to get down.

 

[1simplemann]

I'm not a rappeler but it seems to me like you would want as few moving mechanical parts as possible. Less to fail. Moving parts scare me. A Figure 8 or the figure 9 device or saw on here would seem ideal.

 

[thedutchtouch]

Man, I wish I could claim a few more years to justify the fact that I can't touch my toes, but the struggle is real. Need to work on my stretching regardless, but rappelling is 100% the way to go down.

 

[Apex7]

63 here and I started rappelling before last season because it's much safer coming down in the dark. I use a GRIGRI PLUS and also have a Madrock. I favor the GRIGRI over the Madrock because it's smoother for me. I have tried the F4 and like it but also liked to try the FCX because it similar to the GRIGRI. I do have some injuries from a work accident that still hinder me so rappelling is the safest way for me to come out of the tree.

 

[cedar paul]

Going to be 66 in March Lord willing and climb a rope / rappell. After a long day at dusk and tired rappelling is the safest egress from a tree in my humble opinion.

 

[MNFarmHunter]

Regarding the Sterling F4, we saddle hunters look at safety limitation''s more as guidelines than rules and rappelling is no different.

The nice thing about the F4 is that it is designed for and within spec for 8mm ropes we most often use. It's also specifically a descent device meant for rappelling vs. most of the devices we use which are belay devices and on the ragged edge of spec for 8mm rope.

They cost more but are comparatively priced to most mechanical devices out there.


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[thedutchtouch]

Regarding the Sterling F4, we saddle hunters look at safety limitation''s more as guidelines than rules and rappelling is no different.

The nice thing about the F4 is that it is designed for and within spec for 8mm ropes we most often use. It's also specifically a descent device meant for rappelling vs. most of the devices we use which are belay devices and on the ragged edge of spec for 8mm rope.

They cost more but are comparatively priced to most mechanical devices out there.


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I see zero reason to use an f4 device. It's more expensive that a safeguard/Grigri/etc but doesn't add any utility because you aren't supposed to use them as a progress capture device, just for emergency egress out a window of a burning building (possible utility by enabling slightly skinnier rope use), and they are a ton more expensive than an ATC/figure 8, and you have to thread the rope through from the tag end.

Seems like it's more of a creating YouTube content to stay relevant find than an actual game changer like the safeguard was when it became popular a few years ago. What am I missing, those of you that know more?

 

[GeoFish]

I don't know much about rappelling, just asking.
If I was interested in just rappelling, I think I would use a figure 8.
But I also need something to take out tether slack while climbing.
I also need something for self rescue.
At the Florida meet up @Fl Canopy Stalker is going to do a demo, maybe he can teach me something, LOL.

 

[Weldabeast]

I keep trying to tell u guys....u just need a biner and a friction hitch.

 

[CZMark]

I'm 64 and I've rappelled since I started saddle hunting. The device I used for two years, and still carry as a backup has not been mentioned in this thread; the ATC. Using the ATC with a hollowblock is a fairly cheap, extremely easy way to rappel.

 

[Weldabeast]

I don't know much about all the different methods u are attempting but I do know that I have personally met more than 1 other person in the flesh say they had an injury using the swadwe/Nader BS...that's really bad odds considering how few.other.sadddle.huntera I've met.....aaahhhh stupid period too close to the spacebar and I don't wanna go back and correct

 

[MNFarmHunter]

I just deleted a long post as it wasn’t worth the argument. To summarize it, there’s a clear distinction in postings of climbing and rappelling, which can be separated solely on the use of terminology.


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[Swampwalker]

I just deleted a long post as it wasn’t worth the argument. To summarize it, there’s a clear distinction in postings of climbing and rappelling, which can be separated solely on the use of terminology.


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[TNSTAAFL]

Found this old video from Sterling. The application seems pretty similar to what we do as hunters "egressing" from a tree at the end of a hunt.

Can't speak to the progress capture part on the way up, but I don't see anywhere that says you shouldn't use it as such.

The most interesting part was the shock load part. "Firemen of all sizes" sounds reassuring, and the intentional slippage sounds like a screamer effect that might mitigate slack falls to a degree (suggesting climb up utility). Probably means you should not back it up below the device so the slippage can do its thing.

References to using both hands while climbing out window as well as video demonstration confirms the company sees this as a hands free device.

It is interesting that the threading pattern differs from how NYSH shows it.

Just sharing for thinking and discussion. I'm not a climbing or safety expert. Just some dude...yada...yada.

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[Swampwalker]

This is something (rappelling) that I'm going to work on when it's warmer. Saw phtaw's (?) video on using the figure 8. Seems simple enough. Seen one vid where he tied his bow rope behind the knot on his rappelling line for pulling it down after.

 

[Equinox631]

66 last season.
I have used a figure 8 since 1974,
Too old to change, but I do use a friction hitch to climb and back up the repel.

 

[MNFarmHunter]

66 last season.
I have used a figure 8 since 1974,
Too old to change, but I do use a friction hitch to climb and back up the repel.

Love the 8, learned on a eared 8 and a rack. Running an 8 sideways is by far the simplest but also requires a degree of understanding and training to use correctly.

In no manner of disrespect, it’s also why I’ll talk up the “idiot-proof” mechanicals over things like advanced hitches and 8’s. Not knowing the level of training and practice, I’d rather promote something simple to operate at the cost of $$$, weight and wear over technical skill and ability.


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[Apex7]

Been watching this and considering. A few thoughts:

Pros:
Works with 8mm in spec. 8mm is so much more packable than the 9's I've used with the Madrock.

Hands feee operation. While using hands free may teach poor rappel tehnique, it is nice to know it is considered a hands free device. Art least as far as I know from the video that is. It would not surprise me to hear that the company and or safety experts caution against ever taking your break hand off the rope.

No known issues (so far) with a backup such as an autoblock tied below the device for extra confidence in hands free situations.

Quiet. For a metal device it seems really easy to make this thing effectively silent to use.

Cons:
Pricey. Especially for such a simple device. Seems like this should be a $40-50 item. But if this is the end of the perfect rappel device search (fat chance) no big deal. It's no worse than all this other crap I buy.

Not an easy on/off install. I think this device just lives on the rope when used optimally. Some don't like this, but not a signifcant concern for me.

Impact on rope. This one is still a question for me that has not been fully addressed. An unanswered comment in the youtube video is all I've seen about it. The possible problem is how the thin lever that pinches the rope to hold position puts significant pressure on the rope and its core. I wonder that since this is designed for 1-time use (the rope. Not necessarily the device) in a rescue situation that this isn't a concern for the company in terms of its intended use, but for us with repeated use on the same rope could pose a problem. Add to that the warranty is void when used with ropes not specified by the company, and Oplux or ResTech are not in that group specified. This is probably more to do with fire/heat resistance than device compatibility, but who knows.

Just some random internet dude's thoughts.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

My nephew is a firefighter and they have been using the FCX for awhile. My friend has the F4 and he likes that but I like FCX myself. The F4 is nice but FCX is a lot like my GRIGRI PLUS and my Madrock.

 

[2Sloe]

In no manner of disrespect, it’s also why I’ll talk up the “idiot-proof” mechanicals over things like advanced hitches and 8’s. Not knowing the level of training and practice, I’d rather promote something simple to operate at the cost of $$$, weight and wear over technical skill and ability.

Agreed. Human error is responsible for 99.9% of accidents so stupid simple in a proven device is kind of a no brainer. Even when you get technically proficient, it’s not as hard as people think to get distracted due to a myriad of reasons and make a mistake. Simple reduces the likelihood of occurrence there as well.