Yep. That's the one!
Yep. That's the one!
Are you not entertainedYep. That's the one!
I get where your coming from....but per manufacturers,.....madrock does not recommend their belay device for rappeling and has actually warranted against it. Schaeffer marine was contacted about their cam cleat and they specifically said they recommended not using their products in that manner. Kong ascenders and a few others are also being used outside their recommended application. Where are you guys on those?Yes we all saw Tethrd’s patent pending shock absorbing bridge. How come they are not producing this saddle the way they are producing the “patent pending” shape of the phantom or the comfort channels? My guess is they applied for it to hold their spot in case it gets adopted somehow by ASTM BUT saddles aren’t intended for fall arrest. And any small dynamic event such as swinging a little too hard could activate the break away stitching. This isn’t from me this is from a manufacturer of screamers! I believe a dynamic bridge would absorb as much if not more shock than a screamer that is being used inappropriately. I also believe a dynamic tether would do the same. So that “patent pending” saddle isn’t something I would use as a form of safety guidance, but that’s just me personally. As you said it makes you feel better. But the information you shared in the video gives the appearance that you know what you’re talking about, and per a manufacturer of screamers, that is not correct. In fact they suggest we all use a real full body fall harness with a real fall arresting lanyard while introducing slack to our system instead lol
There will always be a nay sayer no matter what the issue is. I found your video as informative and thanks for posting
I get where your coming from....but per manufacturers,.....madrock does not recommend their belay device for rappeling and has actually warranted against it. Schaeffer marine was contacted about their cam cleat and they specifically said they recommended not using their products in that manner. Kong ascenders and a few others are also being used outside their recommended application. Where are you guys on those?
Look I'm no expert. But i've found zero evidence that these won't help. I get what their intended use is. They are for attaching to a anchor (such as in ice) and reducing shock to a anchor. if people are going to climb with slack or use rock climbing harness' in tree stand....this can't hurt! We all know these aren't fall restraint harnesses. But their being used in a manner that a fall can happen. I'm not here to argue but some of you sure have some hostility about this that I don't understand at all
The video is less than 4 min and has zero in-video ads. I'm not making money here? I'll turn monetization off if it makes you feel better. My uploads automatically turn it on. But any video under 8 min will make you literally nothing. My last video this short has been viewed 11k times. I've made $8. But sure. Off it goesyou’re being short sighted. My issue with what you’re doing is very explicit. And it has nothing to do with you climbing trees with out of spec equipment. Happy to discuss offline if you’d like.
Under normal conditions, I would be inclined to agree. Many of these have a dynamic cover that stretches before the stitches are tensioned and begin to break away. I definitely agree with you however the amount of slack that some have while one sticking, I believe would be enough to activate a FBH lanyard. Which is when most of these screamers were being used right?Having seen somebody fall in a full body harness with this style of folded and stitched thing I would go out on a limb and bet that if u did fall under "normal" saddle hunting conditions u wouldn't pop any of the stitches
That is a shock absorbing sling. It’s made to do what other sock absorbing lanyards do which is connect to a safety anchor point and to a harness and absorb shock during a fall. You said you are using a RCH and a tree stand, would you be using this as your actual tether or would you be using this as a back up point that would only see a load during a fall?
If I were to use this (please note that as the reason I posted the question), it would be the sole connection between my rch and the tree strap. I’m basically looking for a suitable fall-arrest solution if I were to use a rock harness in a treestand. The alternative would be a 5-point safety harness (hss) attached to the tree strap (or lifeline on my presets)
Ok.....so if u are standing on something tethered in and all of the sudden u have nothing under ur feet and u got slack....u aren't exactly falling straight down, correct?....gravity is pulling u down but ur tether (wether it has a screamer or not) is gonna pull u in a slight arc and slam u into the tree. There's more going on than just a straight unobstructed vertical fall....even more so if u were rotating around the tree or something like that.....in my mind a fall with lots of slack is gonna slam u and ur lower body with suddenly stop and ur upper body will wanna keep going and u either break in 2 or ur upper body will keep going in it's intended path and u end up upsidedown and hopefully u arent knocked out and don't slip out. I'm sure every situation will have different results....but that's what would happen in my imagination.
Even in a straight vertical fall with a climbing harness in which less than 1800lbs of force is generated to the climber(which is TMA and OSHA allowance) would STILL result in a seriously injured climber. His back would be wrecked. Here is a videoOk.....so if u are standing on something tethered in and all of the sudden u have nothing under ur feet and u got slack....u aren't exactly falling straight down, correct?....gravity is pulling u down but ur tether (wether it has a screamer or not) is gonna pull u in a slight arc and slam u into the tree. There's more going on than just a straight unobstructed vertical fall....even more so if u were rotating around the tree or something like that.....in my mind a fall with lots of slack is gonna slam u and ur lower body with suddenly stop and ur upper body will wanna keep going and u either break in 2 or ur upper body will keep going in it's intended path and u end up upsidedown and hopefully u arent knocked out and don't slip out. I'm sure every situation will have different results....but that's what would happen in my imagination.
This specific application I think it is more likely than not it may offer some force reduction that could be useful. But there are many variables, and there’s no data you can rely on right now to give you the peace of mind you may be looking for.
Having said that- It should NOT be conflated with the application in one stick climbing with a saddle.
All other things being equal, in your opinion, would the risk in the usage I described (as a fall arrest for rch) be generally worse than, equal to, or greater than the risk in using a tma certified 5-point harness?
I’m not qualified to assess that risk. Nor am I even remotely comfortable giving a stranger my opinion.
but watch that video. A screamer will clearly reduce force. But that clearly does not equate to “safety”
When you say kong ascenders, are you referring to the kong duck? Is it not meant as a rope grab on 8mm to 13mm rope? Was that not what it is used for when it’s on a tether? As far as boat cams on sticks and platforms, I don’t use them. I’m old school and use a normal pull cam buckle or an OCB. I cannot speak about the mad rock, I prefer a gri gri plus. But I do understand what you’re saying. None of those you mentioned are as important as keeping slack out of your system in my mind. I take the recommendations in your video and your post here as it makes falls in a saddle safe if you use a screamer and that is untrue and a dangerous assumption. That’s what I know and I think that’s what Kyle is saying. Not being harsh just don’t want new saddle hunters seeing your video as their magic save all while learning to one stick. I hope that makes sense.I get where your coming from....but per manufacturers,.....madrock does not recommend their belay device for rappeling and has actually warranted against it. Schaeffer marine was contacted about their cam cleat and they specifically said they recommended not using their products in that manner. Kong ascenders and a few others are also being used outside their recommended application. Where are you guys on those?
Look I'm no expert. But i've found zero evidence that these won't help. I get what their intended use is. They are for attaching to a anchor (such as in ice) and reducing shock to a anchor. if people are going to climb with slack or use rock climbing harness' in tree stand....this can't hurt! We all know these aren't fall restraint harnesses. But their being used in a manner that a fall can happen. I'm not here to argue but some of you sure have some hostility about this that I don't understand at all
Also I don't think this device is the save all and should allow you to act stupid. It doesn't make you bulletproof by any means
Two different, independent questions then:
1. Would you personally hunt out of a treestand using a tma-certified harness?
2. Would you personally hunt out of a treestand using a rock harness in any scenario?
I’m not qualified to assess that risk. Nor am I even remotely comfortable giving a stranger my opinion.
but watch that video. A screamer will clearly reduce force. But that clearly does not equate to “safety”