• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Falling with slack in your line

heretic said:
popcorn-eating-popcorn.gif
Click to expand...
Yep. That's the one!
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
Yes we all saw Tethrd’s patent pending shock absorbing bridge. How come they are not producing this saddle the way they are producing the “patent pending” shape of the phantom or the comfort channels? My guess is they applied for it to hold their spot in case it gets adopted somehow by ASTM BUT saddles aren’t intended for fall arrest. And any small dynamic event such as swinging a little too hard could activate the break away stitching. This isn’t from me this is from a manufacturer of screamers! I believe a dynamic bridge would absorb as much if not more shock than a screamer that is being used inappropriately. I also believe a dynamic tether would do the same. So that “patent pending” saddle isn’t something I would use as a form of safety guidance, but that’s just me personally. As you said it makes you feel better. But the information you shared in the video gives the appearance that you know what you’re talking about, and per a manufacturer of screamers, that is not correct. In fact they suggest we all use a real full body fall harness with a real fall arresting lanyard while introducing slack to our system instead lol
Click to expand...
I get where your coming from....but per manufacturers,.....madrock does not recommend their belay device for rappeling and has actually warranted against it. Schaeffer marine was contacted about their cam cleat and they specifically said they recommended not using their products in that manner. Kong ascenders and a few others are also being used outside their recommended application. Where are you guys on those?
Look I'm no expert. But i've found zero evidence that these won't help. I get what their intended use is. They are for attaching to a anchor (such as in ice) and reducing shock to a anchor. if people are going to climb with slack or use rock climbing harness' in tree stand....this can't hurt! We all know these aren't fall restraint harnesses. But their being used in a manner that a fall can happen. I'm not here to argue but some of you sure have some hostility about this that I don't understand at all

Also I don't think this device is the save all and should allow you to act stupid. It doesn't make you bulletproof by any means
 
Tree ninja said:
There will always be a nay sayer no matter what the issue is. I found your video as informative and thanks for posting
Click to expand...

Making a video talking about a thing you want to try, that explains that you are nowhere near qualified to make statements of fact about the safety of the equipment and methods you’re considering, and pointing out the intentions, makes sense. I think it’s short sighted to monetize that, but whatever.

that’s very different from positioning yourself through very clear implications and outright incorrect statements, that you should be taken seriously and given credit for knowledge or information you don’t possess, while hocking a brand that I’m incredibly confident would object to being involved in the video , and taking clear steps to monetize the whole effort.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zoa
Zacrowsl said:
I get where your coming from....but per manufacturers,.....madrock does not recommend their belay device for rappeling and has actually warranted against it. Schaeffer marine was contacted about their cam cleat and they specifically said they recommended not using their products in that manner. Kong ascenders and a few others are also being used outside their recommended application. Where are you guys on those?
Look I'm no expert. But i've found zero evidence that these won't help. I get what their intended use is. They are for attaching to a anchor (such as in ice) and reducing shock to a anchor. if people are going to climb with slack or use rock climbing harness' in tree stand....this can't hurt! We all know these aren't fall restraint harnesses. But their being used in a manner that a fall can happen. I'm not here to argue but some of you sure have some hostility about this that I don't understand at all
Click to expand...

you’re being short sighted. My issue with what you’re doing is very explicit. And it has nothing to do with you climbing trees with out of spec equipment. Happy to discuss offline if you’d like.
 
kyler1945 said:
you’re being short sighted. My issue with what you’re doing is very explicit. And it has nothing to do with you climbing trees with out of spec equipment. Happy to discuss offline if you’d like.
Click to expand...
The video is less than 4 min and has zero in-video ads. I'm not making money here? I'll turn monetization off if it makes you feel better. My uploads automatically turn it on. But any video under 8 min will make you literally nothing. My last video this short has been viewed 11k times. I've made $8. But sure. Off it goes
 
Weldabeast said:
Having seen somebody fall in a full body harness with this style of folded and stitched thing I would go out on a limb and bet that if u did fall under "normal" saddle hunting conditions u wouldn't pop any of the stitches
Click to expand...
Under normal conditions, I would be inclined to agree. Many of these have a dynamic cover that stretches before the stitches are tensioned and begin to break away. I definitely agree with you however the amount of slack that some have while one sticking, I believe would be enough to activate a FBH lanyard. Which is when most of these screamers were being used right?
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
That is a shock absorbing sling. It’s made to do what other sock absorbing lanyards do which is connect to a safety anchor point and to a harness and absorb shock during a fall. You said you are using a RCH and a tree stand, would you be using this as your actual tether or would you be using this as a back up point that would only see a load during a fall?
Click to expand...

If I were to use this (please note that as the reason I posted the question), it would be the sole connection between my rch and the tree strap. I’m basically looking for a suitable fall-arrest solution if I were to use a rock harness in a treestand. The alternative would be a 5-point safety harness (hss) attached to the tree strap (or lifeline on my presets)
 
beej32 said:
If I were to use this (please note that as the reason I posted the question), it would be the sole connection between my rch and the tree strap. I’m basically looking for a suitable fall-arrest solution if I were to use a rock harness in a treestand. The alternative would be a 5-point safety harness (hss) attached to the tree strap (or lifeline on my presets)
Click to expand...

This specific application I think it is more likely than not it may offer some force reduction that could be useful. But there are many variables, and there’s no data you can rely on right now to give you the peace of mind you may be looking for.

Having said that- It should NOT be conflated with the application in one stick climbing with a saddle.
 
Ok.....so if u are standing on something tethered in and all of the sudden u have nothing under ur feet and u got slack....u aren't exactly falling straight down, correct?....gravity is pulling u down but ur tether (wether it has a screamer or not) is gonna pull u in a slight arc and slam u into the tree. There's more going on than just a straight unobstructed vertical fall....even more so if u were rotating around the tree or something like that.....in my mind a fall with lots of slack is gonna slam u and ur lower body with suddenly stop and ur upper body will wanna keep going and u either break in 2 or ur upper body will keep going in it's intended path and u end up upsidedown and hopefully u arent knocked out and don't slip out. I'm sure every situation will have different results....but that's what would happen in my imagination.
 
Weldabeast said:
Ok.....so if u are standing on something tethered in and all of the sudden u have nothing under ur feet and u got slack....u aren't exactly falling straight down, correct?....gravity is pulling u down but ur tether (wether it has a screamer or not) is gonna pull u in a slight arc and slam u into the tree. There's more going on than just a straight unobstructed vertical fall....even more so if u were rotating around the tree or something like that.....in my mind a fall with lots of slack is gonna slam u and ur lower body with suddenly stop and ur upper body will wanna keep going and u either break in 2 or ur upper body will keep going in it's intended path and u end up upsidedown and hopefully u arent knocked out and don't slip out. I'm sure every situation will have different results....but that's what would happen in my imagination.
Click to expand...

totally unpredictable and chaotic. And painful. And if someone watches a video like this, and thinks that the status that the artist has generated gives appropriate credit to his advice, that’s the issue.

they may not have otherwise put themselves into the position to experience the fall you described above otherwise.

and this is the issue I have. We have an epidemic of uncritical thinking, in a landscape of an information explosion, and there’s no more gatekeepers. That’s not going to change. I don’t think I want it to. But a whole bunch of people are going to suffer by not understanding that people acting like gate keepers now are just rent seekers. If someone wants status, they should be earning it.
 
Weldabeast said:
Ok.....so if u are standing on something tethered in and all of the sudden u have nothing under ur feet and u got slack....u aren't exactly falling straight down, correct?....gravity is pulling u down but ur tether (wether it has a screamer or not) is gonna pull u in a slight arc and slam u into the tree. There's more going on than just a straight unobstructed vertical fall....even more so if u were rotating around the tree or something like that.....in my mind a fall with lots of slack is gonna slam u and ur lower body with suddenly stop and ur upper body will wanna keep going and u either break in 2 or ur upper body will keep going in it's intended path and u end up upsidedown and hopefully u arent knocked out and don't slip out. I'm sure every situation will have different results....but that's what would happen in my imagination.
Click to expand...
Even in a straight vertical fall with a climbing harness in which less than 1800lbs of force is generated to the climber(which is TMA and OSHA allowance) would STILL result in a seriously injured climber. His back would be wrecked. Here is a video
 
kyler1945 said:
This specific application I think it is more likely than not it may offer some force reduction that could be useful. But there are many variables, and there’s no data you can rely on right now to give you the peace of mind you may be looking for.

Having said that- It should NOT be conflated with the application in one stick climbing with a saddle.
Click to expand...

All other things being equal, in your opinion, would the risk in the usage I described (as a fall arrest for rch) be generally worse than, equal to, or greater than the risk in using a tma certified 5-point harness?
 
beej32 said:
All other things being equal, in your opinion, would the risk in the usage I described (as a fall arrest for rch) be generally worse than, equal to, or greater than the risk in using a tma certified 5-point harness?
Click to expand...

I’m not qualified to assess that risk. Nor am I even remotely comfortable giving a stranger my opinion.

but watch that video. A screamer will clearly reduce force. But that clearly does not equate to “safety”
 
kyler1945 said:
I’m not qualified to assess that risk. Nor am I even remotely comfortable giving a stranger my opinion.

but watch that video. A screamer will clearly reduce force. But that clearly does not equate to “safety”
Click to expand...

Two different, independent questions then:
1. Would you personally hunt out of a treestand using a tma-certified harness?
2. Would you personally hunt out of a treestand using a rock harness in any scenario?
 
Zacrowsl said:
I get where your coming from....but per manufacturers,.....madrock does not recommend their belay device for rappeling and has actually warranted against it. Schaeffer marine was contacted about their cam cleat and they specifically said they recommended not using their products in that manner. Kong ascenders and a few others are also being used outside their recommended application. Where are you guys on those?
Look I'm no expert. But i've found zero evidence that these won't help. I get what their intended use is. They are for attaching to a anchor (such as in ice) and reducing shock to a anchor. if people are going to climb with slack or use rock climbing harness' in tree stand....this can't hurt! We all know these aren't fall restraint harnesses. But their being used in a manner that a fall can happen. I'm not here to argue but some of you sure have some hostility about this that I don't understand at all

Also I don't think this device is the save all and should allow you to act stupid. It doesn't make you bulletproof by any means
Click to expand...
When you say kong ascenders, are you referring to the kong duck? Is it not meant as a rope grab on 8mm to 13mm rope? Was that not what it is used for when it’s on a tether? As far as boat cams on sticks and platforms, I don’t use them. I’m old school and use a normal pull cam buckle or an OCB. I cannot speak about the mad rock, I prefer a gri gri plus. But I do understand what you’re saying. None of those you mentioned are as important as keeping slack out of your system in my mind. I take the recommendations in your video and your post here as it makes falls in a saddle safe if you use a screamer and that is untrue and a dangerous assumption. That’s what I know and I think that’s what Kyle is saying. Not being harsh just don’t want new saddle hunters seeing your video as their magic save all while learning to one stick. I hope that makes sense.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top