2024 Turkey Thread

[NMSbowhunter]

Par for the course in my neck of PA. Birds are extirpated from the region. Most depressing thing I've ever seen

They are out there; they just are not gobbling. I'm finding tracks in certain areas. I'm just not hearing any gobbles yet.

Last year it seemed that they started to fire up about the end of April, just as the season was drawing to a close. The year before, I killed a great gobbler in a spot on April 27th that had been hammered by guys all April. The spot was close to the road, and I had seen several trucks parked there every dang day I went through. When I got that gobbler he was actually one that side hilled me while I was calling to another. I believe that bird is still there and I plan to be back after him in a week or so, but I expect him to be mostly silent. I believe he roosts at either end of a big valley and depending on which end he starts out on will end up at the other end the next day. I've been close to him several times last year but he is a tough, pressured public land bird.

I may be completely wrong on this, but I sort of think the bird populations have returned to a more normal level in the last few years after a period of artificial inflation. I think we just got used to having a huge population of vocal birds and we thought that was normal. Hearing birds every time we went out and killing a limit every season was what a lot of us got used too. Maybe that wasn't sustainable. I've talked to old timers and they sort of agree on that. Things were like they are now before. Like I say, maybe I'm wrong on that.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Something else I was thinking about yesterday seems to tie into this and maybe some of ya'll know more than I do about this. Over the last couple of weeks the state has burned off tens of thousands of acres on three local WMA's, and I'm sure it has been going on all over. Places that had waist high grass and briar thickets and cover are now wide open down to the bare dirt. Turkeys nest on the ground. How is burning off a huge amount of ground cover just prior to turkey nesting season good for bird populations?

 

[Weldabeast]

I don't know nuffin about nuffin but Florida natural wildfire season is April-July if I remember correct....maybe the burns are timed to replicate natural burn cycles

 

[Tknapp]

Par for the course in my neck of PA. Birds are extirpated from the region. Most depressing thing I've ever seen

I feel that in western Pa our population is better than it has been for the last 5-10 years. I killed mine on opening morning last year and he was with 5 others that were gobbling their heads off and often see flocks of 20+ in fields. I have seen a trend with higher fisher population areas they tend to not gobble once on the ground and only 1-2 times if any in the tree.

 

[bigmike23]

I feel that in western Pa our population is better than it has been for the last 5-10 years. I killed mine on opening morning last year and he was with 5 others that were gobbling their heads off and often see flocks of 20+ in fields. I have seen a trend with higher fisher population areas they tend to not gobble once on the ground and only 1-2 times if any in the tree.

I wish I could say the same. I scout nonstop in April to find them. I hunt a private 1000 acre parcel that used to hold 10+ gobblers a season. Its not a matter of not scouting hard enough, or not trying enough, or wanting it enough. They're just not around. Maybe a gobbler here and there. It's wildly pitiful. Guys I know who hunt prime turkey habitat with farms and big fields remote way lower birds than normal the last couple years. Up in the Susquehanna county and near Lenox/Gibson.

 

[shmelton]

Something else I was thinking about yesterday seems to tie into this and maybe some of ya'll know more than I do about this. Over the last couple of weeks the state has burned off tens of thousands of acres on three local WMA's, and I'm sure it has been going on all over. Places that had waist high grass and briar thickets and cover are now wide open down to the bare dirt. Turkeys nest on the ground. How is burning off a huge amount of ground cover just prior to turkey nesting season good for bird populations?

Hens can carry eggs until they are ready to nest. If they lose their eggs, they will breed again. We burned 30 acres Sunday. The birds love the dead bugs, and the new sprouts that come up after the burn. I don’t believe the hens typically go to nest until the middle of April in the South. The below pic is from yesterday, and I’m willing to bet my place was still smoking.

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[NMSbowhunter]

Hens can carry eggs until they are ready to nest. If they lose their eggs, they will breed again. We burned 30 acres Sunday. The birds love the dead bugs, and the new sprouts that come up after the burn. I don’t believe the hens typically go to nest until the middle of April in the South. The below pic is from yesterday, and I’m willing to bet my place was still smoking.

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Oh, no doubt they love to feed out in it. I just wondered if it hurt their nesting options.

 

[Weldabeast]

As our resident expert maybe @Pyronole can shed some info on the subject

 

[woodsdog2]

They’re gobbling like crazy up here!!!

 

[Micneador]

I believe most people will find that 3” loads pattern better than 3-1/2”. 3-1/2” seem to blow out the pattern. My shoulder sure loved me the day I figured that out. I used to launch 2-3 cases of 3-1/2” a yr at waterfowl.


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Unless you're shooting a gun that's overbored (ie designed to handle those large loads)

 

[shmelton]

Unless you're shooting a gun that's overbored (ie designed to handle those large loads)

To me overboring a barrel is a backasswards. I don’t mean to sound like a phallus, but why would I just not shoot a 10. The price of shells is not much different from 3-1/2” 12’s, and the extra weight of a 10ga receiver would reduce the recoil tremendously. My BPS10 Specklebelly gun kicked a heck of a lot less then my Super Vinci shooting 3-1/2” shells.


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[BTaylor]

Hens can carry eggs until they are ready to nest. If they lose their eggs, they will breed again. We burned 30 acres Sunday. The birds love the dead bugs, and the new sprouts that come up after the burn. I don’t believe the hens typically go to nest until the middle of April in the South. The below pic is from yesterday, and I’m willing to bet my place was still smoking.

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Dr. Chamberlain and our turkey biologist who studied under him would certainly have you believe they dont go to nest until them, specifically the 17-19th I believe is what they say. Problem with that is it just doesnt match with years of field observation by lots of guys I know for finding nest. It also doesnt match with poult observation post hatch either. But unless you have a biology degree, you dont know what you're talking about according to them. I mean there is no way guys who have hunted nearly everyday of every season for 30-40 years could possibly know anything about turkeys. And especially not more than a guy who has only been in the state a handful of years.

 

[bigmike23]

Maybe I said this in the thread already, when I took my bear to the PA check station, The guy who checked my bear in is the head turkey biologist in my region.
I picked his brain for probably a half hour. He said the number one reason turkeys are down in the region is predation. Lots of foxes, fishers, weasels etc. Second thing is hens are absolutely horrible at picking nesting sites. They pick spots too easily identifiable to predators.
Third, he said they followed 50 radio collared hens last year. He suggested hens will generally make a second nest if the first fails. Of those 50 hens they produced 84 nests. Of those 84 nests, only 4 made poults that made it.

Behind the scenes, him and many other biologists are suggestings the complete ban of hen turkey hunting in the fall. Even if you killed 99% of the males in a given area, just 1 Jake can go to work on those hens and you'd be alright.

The commissions pushback is if they stopped hen hunting, they'd get huge pushback from longtime traditional hunters and potential lose license sales.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Maybe I said this in the thread already, when I took my bear to the PA check station, The guy who checked my bear in is the head turkey biologist in my region.
I picked his brain for probably a half hour. He said the number one reason turkeys are down in the region is predation. Lots of foxes, fishers, weasels etc. Second thing is hens are absolutely horrible at picking nesting sites. They pick spots too easily identifiable to predators.
Third, he said they followed 50 radio collared hens last year. He suggested hens will generally make a second nest if the first fails. Of those 50 hens they produced 84 nests. Of those 84 nests, only 4 made poults that made it.

Behind the scenes, him and many other biologists are suggestings the complete ban of hen turkey hunting in the fall. Even if you killed 99% of the males in a given area, just 1 Jake can go to work on those hens and you'd be alright.

The commissions pushback is if they stopped hen hunting, they'd get huge pushback from longtime traditional hunters and potential lose license sales.

Wait...ya'll can kill hens? They are 100% off limits here, as are jakes to adults. Youth hunters can shoot jakes.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I just texted two of my big time turkey hunting buddies. Neither reported hearing any gobbles today.

 

[shmelton]

Maybe I said this in the thread already, when I took my bear to the PA check station, The guy who checked my bear in is the head turkey biologist in my region.
I picked his brain for probably a half hour. He said the number one reason turkeys are down in the region is predation. Lots of foxes, fishers, weasels etc. Second thing is hens are absolutely horrible at picking nesting sites. They pick spots too easily identifiable to predators.
Third, he said they followed 50 radio collared hens last year. He suggested hens will generally make a second nest if the first fails. Of those 50 hens they produced 84 nests. Of those 84 nests, only 4 made poults that made it.

Behind the scenes, him and many other biologists are suggestings the complete ban of hen turkey hunting in the fall. Even if you killed 99% of the males in a given area, just 1 Jake can go to work on those hens and you'd be alright.

The commissions pushback is if they stopped hen hunting, they'd get huge pushback from longtime traditional hunters and potential lose license sales.

I may have stated this also, if so excuse me. Turkey hunting in my GA was some of the best in the country until about 2015. What changed? Baiting for deer became legalized in 2011. Why does that matter? We now have coons feeding on golden kernels from August-January. These coons are having a corn induced orgy 6 months a yr, and when the corn disappears they are having to get out and scavenge. Eggs in the spring time are probably one of the easiest targets they can find.


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[bigmike23]

Wait...ya'll can kill hens? They are 100% off limits here, as are jakes to adults. Youth hunters can shoot jakes.

even in the fall?

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Sorry I meant killing hens during fall turkey

Gotcha. We don't have a fall turkey here...maybe up in the northernmost portion of the state? Maybe? But hens are off limits all the time and jakes can only be killed by youth.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

even in the fall?

Yes, hens are 100% forbidden.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I may have stated this also, if so excuse me. Turkey hunting in my GA was some of the best in the country until about 2015. What changed? Baiting for deer became legalized in 2011. Why does that matter? We now have coons feeding on golden kernels from August-January. These coons are having a corn induced orgy 6 months a yr, and when the corn disappears they are having to get out and scavenge. Eggs in the spring time are probably one of the easiest targets they can find.


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That makes a lot of sense. Baiting is huge here. It has been for as long as I can remember. I'd personally like to see it go away but realistically it won't. Our little co-op sells $100,000 in corn per season in a town of about 2000 people. It is big business, and frankly most guys would not know where to start as far as hunting goes if they didn't have a bait pile to zero in on. It would be a real shock to the system if baiting went away.

I've always suspected that the decline in turkey numbers was due to either pesticides or fire ants. Both of these are new...last 100 or so years. Raccoons, skunks and opossums have been coexisting alongside turkeys way before the first human set foot on the north American continent. Some folks say it is a decline in trapping, but I can't see that, at least around here. In the late 80's I got interested in trapping beavers and muskrats. I could not find anyone locally to mentor me. Nobody seemed to be doing it.

The last few years it seems to me that the birds have really started gobbling about the end of April, about the time our season ends. Maybe what we need is to push the season up some and start about mid April and through May instead of March 15th to the end of April.