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B&C label cell cams unethical

Arrowsquirrel said:
I understand what you are saying about crossbows100%. I guess my point was I have been exposed to crossbow hunters with less than ideal hunting standards/morals. If I had been exposed to people abusing cell cameras I might think they should be outlawed to.
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I have friends and family who I respect as hunters and who use and enjoy trail cams. I also know of hunters who are a bit cringeworthy in their approach.

On the scale of inclusion though, I don't see trail cameras so clearly tipping the scale as crossbows sometimes can. Trail cameras can definitely be a cause for frustration and concern for some.

While I'm not staunchly against trail cameras in many respects, there's something to be said about the woods just being the woods.

And, hunters being hunters.
 
I love using trail cams, almost a completely separate "hunting" hobby. But just got a few CELL cams last year and am enjoying them the same. I didn't get those with intent to get a buck pic and run right in to hunt it. I use them only to put in remote areas that I dont want to or cant check for several weeks. But generally what is the difference between me buying & using a dozen cams (collected over last 15 to 20 years- and half those were gifts) and the guys with money burning holes in their wallets who go on 1 to multiple guided hunts OR pay big lease fees each year? Trail cams are the poor mans guide service and fun to boot.
 
Plebe said:
ij.org

Judge Rules Against Pennsylvania Hunting Clubs Seeking to Stop Warrantless Intrusions on Private Property; Plan to Appeal - Institute for Justice

ARLINGTON, Va.—Last week, the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania ruled against the Punxsutawney and Pitch Pine hunting clubs in their suit against Pennsylvania Game Commission (PGC) […]
ij.org ij.org
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Thanks for your post. I love that you brought this up, not what's going on. Hopefully it's isolated incidents!

I don't want to get into the legality or politics but pay attention friends. Pay attention!
 
Antirain said:
I love using trail cams, almost a completely separate "hunting" hobby. But just got a few CELL cams last year and am enjoying them the same. I didn't get those with intent to get a buck pic and run right in to hunt it. I use them only to put in remote areas that I dont want to or cant check for several weeks. But generally what is the difference between me buying & using a dozen cams (collected over last 15 to 20 years- and half those were gifts) and the guys with money burning holes in their wallets who go on 1 to multiple guided hunts OR pay big lease fees each year? Trail cams are the poor mans guide service and fun to boot.
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The issue with cams is the use more so than the tool. Similar can be said for guided hunts, some it is a pick your animal and shoot it, not really much of a hunt and some are legit hunts. Like most things when rules started getting implemented, the folks who were doing things right get penalized and most of the folks doing things wrong arent going to change their behavior anyway.
 
Plebe said:
ij.org

Judge Rules Against Pennsylvania Hunting Clubs Seeking to Stop Warrantless Intrusions on Private Property; Plan to Appeal - Institute for Justice

ARLINGTON, Va.—Last week, the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania ruled against the Punxsutawney and Pitch Pine hunting clubs in their suit against Pennsylvania Game Commission (PGC) […]
ij.org ij.org
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The pendulum swings both ways. Owning private property doesn’t exempt people from the rule of law, nor does being a law enforcement agency.
 
Like everything else, the use of trail cams is on a spectrum from no use at all to moving on a deer within hours of getting a picture.

Have any of you ever watched SeekOne on Youtube? They are urban hunters. They use cell cams and in some of the videos they will get a cell cam picture of a buck and immediately hunt that area the same day and kill the deer. For me, that's not something I would want to do. Do I think its unethical? Not really. But at the same time I think its good that P&Y or B&C restrict their use for deer that are entered because those clubs are trying to preserve/promote a way of hunting.
 
HaunSolo said:
Like everything else, the use of trail cams is on a spectrum from no use at all to moving on a deer within hours of getting a picture.

Have any of you ever watched SeekOne on Youtube? They are urban hunters. They use cell cams and in some of the videos they will get a cell cam picture of a buck and immediately hunt that area the same day and kill the deer. For me, that's not something I would want to do. Do I think its unethical? Not really. But at the same time I think its good that P&Y or B&C restrict their use for deer that are entered because those clubs are trying to preserve/promote a way of hunting.
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For me, the “ethics” are situational. Those boys in SeekOne are primarily hunting tiny urban/suburban private places where the deer numbers are insanely high and there aren’t enough hunters and parcels to hunt for good management.
 
Jammintree said:
For me, the “ethics” are situational. Those boys in SeekOne are primarily hunting tiny urban/suburban private places where the deer numbers are insanely high and there aren’t enough hunters and parcels to hunt for good management.
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Urban hunts are definitely hunting, and hunting ethics apply. But the public / regulatory interest is different than conventional hunts. On standard hunting ground, managers want to balance hunter's opportunities to pursue and harvest game, maintain population levels, and ensure good conservation practices. In urban hunts the interest is different; they're considering car vs deer collisions, complaints of property damage, mitigating neighbor conflicts ("the deer my jack4$$ neighbor feeds are eating my garden, and I want a restraining order!"), CWD, the carrying capacity of the land, etc. In this narrow situation, I could be persuaded that aggressive hunting techniques inconsistent with traditional fair chase practices are not inappropriate if they are consistent with the circumstances justifying the urban hunt. I don't use cell cams on my urban hunts, but that's because I don't own any. In the city hunts I've done in the past, we're expected to kill every deer we have a legal opportunity to kill humanely. If the city finds out you're passing on fawns or young bucks they'll cancel your permit and transfer it to another hunter.
 
I’ve recently watched a bunch of the content made by seek one… I have a ton of respect for those guys ability to target and successfully kill mature bucks in suburban and urban settings. And I can also see why B and C won’t score Giants taken using cell cameras. Using the cameras to know when and where to go to make a kill is a game changer.
 
Jammintree said:
I’ve recently watched a bunch of the content made by seek one… I have a ton of respect for those guys ability to target and successfully kill mature bucks in suburban and urban settings. And I can also see why B and C won’t score Giants taken using cell cameras. Using the cameras to know when and where to go to make a kill is a game changer.
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They do put the corn to them so there's that. I know. Legal but still more of a game changer than the cameras imo.
 
Bigterp said:
Man I sure hope to have this dilemma!! Cause he’s on my wall…….. ain’t worried about that book or how much letoff I have….. i know there are ways that you could have an unethical advantage with technology but it’s all a slippery slope at this point
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I agree. But if they use the honor system, you used the old bow with 70% let off and not that new hoyt with 90% :sweatsmile:
 
Loopwing said:
The thing about seek one, they are doing pest control, more than hunting.
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Absolutely. Though it’s high grading pest control. If you watch the video of the “300lb”buck, He passes on dozens of nice bucks waiting for that giant. With that many deer around, eliminating one big buck out of a bachelor group doesn’t really do much to manage the population. With their knowledge of how to effectively hunt the city, these guys could organize some serious deer population control and provide a lot of meat to feed the hungry. That’s content I’d really like to see and would actually be good Promotional information for
Furthering their cause.
 
Jammintree said:
Absolutely. Though it’s high grading pest control. If you watch the video of the “300lb”buck, He passes on dozens of nice bucks waiting for that giant. With that many deer around, eliminating one big buck out of a bachelor group doesn’t really do much to manage the population. With their knowledge of how to effectively hunt the city, these guys could organize some serious deer population control and provide a lot of meat to feed the hungry. That’s content I’d really like to see and would actually be good Promotional information for
Furthering their cause.
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They do both. I think that last video of theirs I watched was a doe control hunt where 4 or 5 guys along with the Seek One guys did a 2 day hunt and killed a rather large quantity of does and donated the meat to the needy. I do like that about what they are doing.
 
Jammintree said:
Absolutely. Though it’s high grading pest control. If you watch the video of the “300lb”buck, He passes on dozens of nice bucks waiting for that giant. With that many deer around, eliminating one big buck out of a bachelor group doesn’t really do much to manage the population. With their knowledge of how to effectively hunt the city, these guys could organize some serious deer population control and provide a lot of meat to feed the hungry. That’s content I’d really like to see and would actually be good Promotional information for
Furthering their cause.
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I think I saw a video where they shot a bunch of does but then again that might someone else because my memory sucks. :tearsofjoy:
 
They do both, but if you know the beast is in the neighborhood why not wait for him. Tomorrow we can drop everything that walks. We don't know the backstory or logistics of their hunts. I do some urban archery that I am not allowed to shoot bucks, if they find out I let anything antlerless walk, I don't get to hunt anymore.

Edit: shot to shoot
 
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Jammintree said:
Absolutely. Though it’s high grading pest control. If you watch the video of the “300lb”buck, He passes on dozens of nice bucks waiting for that giant. With that many deer around, eliminating one big buck out of a bachelor group doesn’t really do much to manage the population. With their knowledge of how to effectively hunt the city, these guys could organize some serious deer population control and provide a lot of meat to feed the hungry. That’s content I’d really like to see and would actually be good Promotional information for
Furthering their cause.
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Re: Seek One. It’s not pest control. It’s exclusive access trophy hunting and commercial film making. Any and all other motivations are secondary to non-existent.
 
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