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Climbing rope for tree access

RADS was the direction I planned to go in, should have led with that.

I was going to go with a hand ascender and a grigri. If I was really pinching pennies I was thinking of starting with a ropeman1 instead of the hand ascender, because I can use that for my lineman belt if/when I upgrade to the hand ascender.
@boone0 you mention the grigri when rigged right.... what is the right way to rig it, following the instructions/pics on it? Or are you hooking into a Prussik above your top ascender as well

EDIT spelling
 
donnieballgame said:
I use this for tying off the grigri at height and any time i have to remove my brake hand, i usually keep a biner on the leg strap. I use a tether rather than use the SRT rope.

Also the grigri doesn't have a spring not sure where that came from.

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Tying-off-the-GRIGRI-to-have-your-hands-free
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Click to expand...
The grigri absolutely has a spring. Apparently there is a springless version grillon - https://treetools.co.nz/_blog/Treetools_Blog/post/grigri-grillon/
 
I’m using a Madrock Safeguard and Petzl ascender for the way up but still prefer an ATC and VT Prusik for the rappel. Not 100% necessary but I’d carry it for a backup anyway.


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@mattsteg thanks for the links and pointing out the difference between spring and no-spring! That actually solved a lot of unknowns for me
 
mattsteg said:
The grigri absolutely has a spring. Apparently there is a springless version grillon - https://treetools.co.nz/_blog/Treetools_Blog/post/grigri-grillon/
Click to expand...

There is a Grigri which I am not familiar with so it may have a spring.

However I believe all the references in this thread are actually to the Grigri2 which has no spring as part of the rope grabbing mechanism.

Spring or no spring the important thing is that the Grigri2 can lose its grip if tension is removed. Hence the tie off instructions from Petzl.

When I’m rappelling down on the Grigri2 stopping to remove Stepps I don’t tie off because the device is under tension. If I were to stop and stand on a Stepp to do something then I would have to tie off the Grigri2.

Apparently the Safeguard doesn’t have this requirement but I’ve never used one.


EDIT: upon further examination there is a spring in the Grigri2 but it works to open the grip. That’s why it loses grip if not inder tension. The rope trying to pull itself through the Grigri2 is what causes the bite.

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OK, I am in, sold on treesaddles and srt climbing. I have to start from scratch as I have nothing but a habit right now. Can I get by with an Aero hunter Kestel saddle without the tether/lineman's belt or do I need the whole shooting match..From what I am seeing and reading the climbing rope can sub for the other. I have a couple of books coming from Treestuff.com to help with knots and general setup as well as the great youtubes on saddlehunter. Will be sooo glad to sell those dang climbing stands!!!
 
GiGisDaddy said:
OK, I am in, sold on treesaddles and srt climbing. I have to start from scratch as I have nothing but a habit right now. Can I get by with an Aero hunter Kestel saddle without the tether/lineman's belt or do I need the whole shooting match..From what I am seeing and reading the climbing rope can sub for the other. I have a couple of books coming from Treestuff.com to help with knots and general setup as well as the great youtubes on saddlehunter. Will be sooo glad to sell those dang climbing stands!!!
Click to expand...
Tether and lineman belt are just rope cut to length with some loops, prusiks, carabiners, etc. You don't use a lineman belt when SRT climbing and can use your climbing rope as a tether (personal choice). You probably want a lineman belt to utilize other climbing techniques on occasion, but if truly 100%srt it is not used.
 
GiGisDaddy said:
OK, I am in, sold on treesaddles and srt climbing. I have to start from scratch as I have nothing but a habit right now. Can I get by with an Aero hunter Kestel saddle without the tether/lineman's belt or do I need the whole shooting match..From what I am seeing and reading the climbing rope can sub for the other. I have a couple of books coming from Treestuff.com to help with knots and general setup as well as the great youtubes on saddlehunter. Will be sooo glad to sell those dang climbing stands!!!
Click to expand...

Technically you won’t need a tether or lineman’s belt with the SRT method but you will with all other climbing methods.

Another thing to think about is how you plan to transition from your belay device to your tether which could be your SRT rope. The Safeguard, grigri etc. are not technically hands free. You should at least tie a stopper knot below the device prior to taking your hand off the tag end of your rope. This problem doesn’t go away with a tether but the conversation made me think of it.


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Hmm I'll try to find a video showing this..the set up jcline84 had in his video looked pretty "simple" like I could simply break my neck..but I have a while to read and practice before I go full bore. You say the safeguard,grigri arent hands free, what about the Peltz ID and there is another that's priced high,, but if a knot will work then ill go that route. I dont mind getting/making a tether or lineman,s rope just want to have the safest while keeping down the amount of stuff going in the woods.. No offense to anyone on here but everyone has their favorite set up.. I am unbiased because not that well informed.. read everything here and links to treestuff/treefool etc..

Question: Would an REI or similar outdoors stores that teach rock climbing be a good source if you just wanted to tree climb??
 
GiGisDaddy said:
Hmm I'll try to find a video showing this..the set up jcline84 had in his video looked pretty "simple" like I could simply break my neck..but I have a while to read and practice before I go full bore. You say the safeguard,grigri arent hands free, what about the Peltz ID and there is another that's priced high,, but if a knot will work then ill go that route. I dont mind getting/making a tether or lineman,s rope just want to have the safest while keeping down the amount of stuff going in the woods.. No offense to anyone on here but everyone has their favorite set up.. I am unbiased because not that well informed.. read everything here and links to treestuff/treefool etc..

Question: Would an REI or similar outdoors stores that teach rock climbing be a good source if you just wanted to tree climb??
Click to expand...

jcline didn’t get to that level of detail in the video. It’s only a minute or two that you’ll need to be hands free as you transition from your ascender and belay device to your Prusik/bridge. The Safeguard and other belay devices give a false sense of security because they will hold you. It’s just not recommended. Any stopper knot in the tag end is easy insurance.


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Thanks for the help, I am an older guy but very excited over the saddle and climbing method.

Would like everyone\anyone's opinion on climbing class from REI or such. There is an outdoors store nearby that has climbing classes often if there is interest.

Oh and what about a platform\ROS ? Is it a good idea?
 
@GiGisDaddy for what it's worth, I work with a fella that's a petzl rep, and I was on shift with him yesterday. I know him well enough to not get a BS answer. We also do rope rescue work at our job. I asked him about all this, I'm as green as you on this.

His point of view on the grigri is as what @weekender21 mentioned, a false sense of security. It can be used in an emergency, but he doesn't think it's good for extended use.

The more expensive device you mention is the petzl I'D I believe (they have one more step up too I think but that's getting beyond what we need). The I'D is also used for low angle work, the brake is designed to work with the differences in tension on the rope. He convinced me to save up and go with the the Rig, because it is the device designed and rated for this purpose. I think longevity of the cam/braking system factors into this. A wise old dude told me not to cheap out on anything that separates your feet from the ground... he was talking about tires and brakes but I think its applicable.

Something else he mentioned was knowing the source of where you are buying it. You guys in the states seem to have some pretty reputable sources with treestuff and that, but here in Canada we don't necessarily have a central internet warehouse, so I'm finding a range in prices of like $100.... he said there's a lot of knockoffs out there. Last year they took one of the knockoff Petzl devices (I can't remember which device it was, I'm sorry), and it was marked just like a regular Petzl device. Etched on it was Petzl's rated break strength, which was 24 kN (it may have been 22, I'm sorry I'm not concise with the details on this). They got the device to break at 12 kN.

That being said, I think I'm gonna try ascending with the rig and a ropeman1 with a footloop to offset the costs for a bit, then get a hand ascender eventually, I figure the ropeman will always come in handy!
 
Thanks ! I also read donnieball game's intro for beginners, good stuff there, I think I'll just buy the RADS out from freestyle and start there, good advise on going cheap
 
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