Issue with Bolt on bottom of stick bending over time

[mzldr2]

Hi all,
I am hoping that someone may be able to point me towards a solution to the issue I am having.

I made my own stick for one-sticking and I am having an issue with the bolt on the bottom step bending. I am 6'1", 245lbs (without hunting gear on)

Here are the components of the stick:
1) 1" square tube from full length XOP stick cut to ~15"
2) 2 XOP brackets removed from original stick
3) 1 harken Cam Cleat
4) 2 Double Steps from EWO
5) 5/16" Grade 8 Bolt
6) 2 brass flange inserts (1 in bracket and 1 in stick) - see pictures - idea was this would prevent any type of deformation of the hole in the stick
7) 3 step aider attached to bottom stick.

About 1/2 way thru last year. I noticed that the bottom bracket looked like it was bending up. I took everything apart and the bolt (Grade 8, 1/4") was definitely bent and the stick showed some deformation at the hole. I redrilled the holes to accommodate the 5/16" ID brass inserts and went to 5/16" Grade 8 bolts and figured that would do the trick. After inspecting my stick the other day, I noticed same thing with the new setup. I added some pics below to show the slight bend in the bolt out at the threads and you can see the slight upward angle to the bracket on the stick. I also added pics of the stick and bracket with the inserts.

I have been using climbing sticks in a variety of configurations for probably 10 years and never had this issue. No issues at all with the top step, so my only thought would be that the aider is putting pressure on the bottom bracket at a weird angle. If that was the case, I would have thought that I would have seen something similar before or someone else may have had the issue.

If anyone has any thoughts, suggestions, etc. they would be appreciated.

 

[Nchunter1989]

There are some smarter guys on here than me, but just looking at it, I would gander that the inserts are focusing the downward pressure on certain areas the bolt, instead of equally across the bolt. Think about it- there isn’t a stick I can think of that has an insert.

I’m running a similar setup,with just the bolts, & I’m 260-270. No issues other than the Lone Wolf style stand off loosening & twisting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Horn]

Did you roll the bolt on a good flat surface to check if it's straight? Even a tiny bend will show like that, a straight edge can be deceiving. The body of the bolt and the threads are probably sightly different sizes ( body bigger).

Also a bushing, even brass, should spread the force over a larger area on the bolt, helping to keep the bolt from bending, assuming the bushing is longer than the tubing wall is thick.

I don't know anything about XOP sticks but i would guess that it is far more likey the bushings moved in the tubing or the tubing hole was the weak spot and deformed.

Also, I have faith it's a grade 8 bolt but please double check the head and confirm that it's not just yellow zinc.

We'll have to go process of elimination for remote help. And hopefully this is a helpful post

 

[Tr33_n1nj@]

It’s hard to tell from the pictures, but where exactly is the bend in the bolt when the stick is put together? Is it the spot where the 2 bushings meet, or is it closer to the thread where the bolt comes out the other side of the stand-off next to the washer/nut?

 

[mzldr2]

There are some smarter guys on here than me, but just looking at it, I would gander that the inserts are focusing the downward pressure on certain areas the bolt, instead of equally across the bolt. Think about it- there isn’t a stick I can think of that has an insert.

I’m running a similar setup,with just the bolts, & I’m 260-270. No issues other than the Lone Wolf style stand off loosening & twisting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Good point about the inserts not being used on other sticks. The reason I actually added them was that on the first version I made, I actually had the hole in the stick elongate and actually broke a 1/4 bolt that was original to the stick. That was an unpleasant experience.

 

[mzldr2]

Did you roll the bolt on a good flat surface to check if it's straight? Even a tiny bend will show like that, a straight edge can be deceiving. The body of the bolt and the threads are probably sightly different sizes ( body bigger).

Also a bushing, even brass, should spread the force over a larger area on the bolt, helping to keep the bolt from bending, assuming the bushing is longer than the tubing wall is thick.

I don't know anything about XOP sticks but i would guess that it is far more likey the bushings moved in the tubing or the tubing hole was the weak spot and deformed.

Also, I have faith it's a grade 8 bolt but please double check the head and confirm that it's not just yellow zinc.

We'll have to go process of elimination for remote help. And hopefully this is a helpful post

I did roll the bolt and it definitely is bent just about where the threads start. I also did double check and it is grade 8.. The bushing does go entire way through the post and is flush with both sides.

 

[mzldr2]

It’s hard to tell from the pictures, but where exactly is the bend in the bolt when the stick is put together? Is it the spot where the 2 bushings meet, or is it closer to the thread where the bolt comes out the other side of the stand-off next to the washer/nut?

I attached a 2 pics for a better look at it.
- in both pics the exit is where it leaves the post
- I put the bolt in 2 positions and took best photo showing the bend from 2 angles.
- I also noted the area of the bolt that would be in the bracket.

It almost seems the bend is starting right as it leaves post?

 

[WISCO]

I would purchase another grade 8 bolt and make sure it is quality and not Chinese and test it to see if it happens again. Is it only one stick giving you issues? Maybe step it up to a 5/16" bolt?

 

[krub6b]

I attached a 2 pics for a better look at it.
- in both pics the exit is where it leaves the post
- I put the bolt in 2 positions and took best photo showing the bend from 2 angles.
- I also noted the area of the bolt that would be in the bracket.

It almost seems the bend is starting right as it leaves post?View attachment 69531

View attachment 69533

I does appear to be bending between the post and bracket. Can you run a longer grade 8 bolt with a shoulder that will come almost through the bracket or maybe even through the bracket and take a washer or 2 to pull tight? The threads may be a little undersized compared to the shoulder allowing for some canting and bending to occur

 

[Horn]

How long is your aider? How are you attaching the aider? Does the top standoff always stay on the tree? I think I read somewhere ( here i think and seems like it was canopy stalker) that most of the weight ends up on the bottom stand off anyway.

 

[mzldr2]

How long is your aider? How are you attaching the aider? Does the top standoff always stay on the tree? I think I read somewhere ( here i think and seems like it was canopy stalker) that most of the weight ends up on the bottom stand off anyway.

@Horn my aider is a 3 step 1" webbing aider with 16" between steps and attaches to the bottom double step so overall length is approx 48". When I set the stick, I always make sure both standoffs are solid and I don't recall ever seeing the top standoff separate from the tree.

 

[mzldr2]

I does appear to be bending between the post and bracket. Can you run a longer grade 8 bolt with a shoulder that will come almost through the bracket or maybe even through the bracket and take a washer or 2 to pull tight? The threads may be a little undersized compared to the shoulder allowing for some canting and bending to occur

Good idea. I am going to get a couple longer ones and utilize the washers if needed and see what happens

 

[Tknapp]

Good idea. I am going to get a couple longer ones and utilize the washers if needed and see what happens

I'm wondering if the stick wasn't seated and the top pulled out putting abnormal leverage on the bottom bracket and causing this. So rather than vertical pressure you had a slightly angled pressure thus adding leverage and pushing the bolt past its yield point.

 

[Weldabeast]

Is the stick wall tweeked
I think u having the issue like tethrd stick u gotta pull the bottom off the trunk a little and then set the stick
The nut was still nice and tight? Just a little wiggle over repeated use could be a culprit also

 

[mzldr2]

Is the stick wall tweeked
I think u having the issue like tethrd stick u gotta pull the bottom off the trunk a little and then set the stick
The nut was still nice and tight? Just a little wiggle over repeated use could be a culprit also

Nut was tight, but I think you @Tknapp may be correct about how I was/am setting the stick. I am going to replace bolt and put it to the test the next 2 weeks. Thx