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Just A Thought On Safety

TonyGreenway

TonyGreenway

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Messages
556
Location
Cartersville, Georgia
I've been practicing with my Wild Edge Stepps and Knaider/Swaider combo. It dawned on me the first time I actually stopped and hung for a few minutes at the top that there's a serious safety issue that I hadn't considered. You guys may have hashed this out already, but I haven't seen it on my scrollings through the forum, so I'll mention it here.

If you're using a method of climbing that does not leave you a quick descent route, you might want to consider one. One stick method, Knaider/Swaider, hand climber. and other methods like these are amazing. The potential risk, however, is that in the event you need to make an emergency descent (honeybees come to mind from years as an arborist), or your aider breaks, or you drop a component of your system, you don't have a quick escape option or a way to get down. I'm going to use my WE Stepps with a Knaider/Swaider. I'll also carry a small diameter climbing line and lightweight figure 8 to rappel if the need arises.

Call it overkill, or just plain uptight. I have a habit of seeing the worst case scenario play out in my mind, and I hate to think of one of our saddlehunter brothers or sisters being in a dangerous situation because they dropped their swaider or their single stick from twenty feet up. I definitely don't want to shimmy down a tree to get to the ground, I don't know about you guys. Anyway... just a thought.

P.S.
Is anyone else as excited as I am for their season opener? I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas! LOL
 
I agree with having a back up plan to get down is and should be a must. Most will not heed the suggestion. Bottom line, sh... happens. If not mistaken John Ebelhart and his boys carry 30’ of rope. Now the thing is you need to have the back up plan with you during your ascent. A red squirrel aider is another suggestion.
 
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I know a lot of people will be reluctant to spend more money or carry more weight. The way I see it, you already have carabiners with you, you could atleast carry a short piece of climbing line (30' perhaps) and learn how to use a munter hitch. You can find short pieces of climbing line online for cheap.
 
TonyGreenway said:
I know a lot of people will be reluctant to spend more money or carry more weight. The way I see it, you already have carabiners with you, you could atleast carry a short piece of climbing line (30' perhaps) and learn how to use a munter hitch. You can find short pieces of climbing line online for cheap.
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Munster is good to lower off of, but anchor would have to be at height meaning rope would have to be 2x the height. Not safe to rap on munter because break direction needed would be up, which is a no no. But great point that there are lots of easy backup alternatives!
 
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Vtbow said:
Munster is good to lower off of, but anchor would have to be at height meaning rope would have to be 2x the height. Not safe to rap on munter because break direction needed would be up, which is a no no. But great point that there are lots of easy backup alternatives!
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That makes sense. We were taught the munter as last resort option to rappel from a tree when something has gone wrong. (i.e. chainsaw wound) We practiced it often, and you can use if you have to. I could even brake from the ground for an unconscious climber with the tail of his rope, but you're right, the braking is MUCH easier parallel with the standing end instead. You're probably right that I shouldn't suggest it here, though. There are safer ways to do it. I carry a small, aluminum figure 8. Lightweight and cheap.
 
I reread me response, and i apologize if my response sounded sharp, it was far from my intention. If you're practiced and know what you're doing i totally understand. It's just pretty much against industry standards even in an emergency situation in the climbing world. But, I understand exactly what you're saying and the concept is sound. Sometimes you do what you gotta do!
 
Vtbow said:
I reread me response, and i apologize if my response sounded sharp, it was far from my intention. If you're practiced and know what you're doing i totally understand. It's just pretty much against industry standards even in an emergency situation in the climbing world. But, I understand exactly what you're saying and the concept is sound. Sometimes you do what you gotta do!
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No worries! You didn't come across in a negative way at all. You obviously care about the safety of our SH friends, and that is awesome. I always worry about the folks that have an "Oh well, stuff happens." outlook. It makes my day when I see someone doing everything they can to be safe and make those around them safer. Tree work is so dangerous, we did everything in our power to negate as much risk as possible. I guess that has bled over into other parts of my life. ;)
 
This is why I started a thread on finding out experience with the petzl emergency RAD setup. It's 6mm cord and a rappel device designed for that small of rope. It would weight about 1/3 of a pound and take up no space. I think it fits the bill for the scenario we are describing.

I didn't think about it as much for safety as I did if I wanted to get down the tree in a hurry to poop. But an emergency is an emergency!
 
kyler1945 said:
This is why I started a thread on finding out experience with the petzl emergency RAD setup. It's 6mm cord and a rappel device designed for that small of rope. It would weight about 1/3 of a pound and take up no space. I think it fits the bill for the scenario we are describing.

I didn't think about it as much for safety as I did if I wanted to get down the tree in a hurry to poop. But an emergency is an emergency!
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:tearsofjoy:
 
kyler1945 said:
This is why I started a thread on finding out experience with the petzl emergency RAD setup. It's 6mm cord and a rappel device designed for that small of rope. It would weight about 1/3 of a pound and take up no space. I think it fits the bill for the scenario we are describing.

I didn't think about it as much for safety as I did if I wanted to get down the tree in a hurry to poop. But an emergency is an emergency!
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That’s a definite emergency that we have all probably experienced


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I heard flinginairos mention it once in a spurs thread when he got asked what he'd do if he dropped a spur. I believe he said that he girth hitches his linesman's belt around the tree and makes a loop for his foot. He then uses his tether to support his weight while he shimmies down the tree. I practiced it a few times in the yard. It's not the easiest, but it definitely works. It's a serious pain to go around branches because you have to swap the foot loop and tether around. I did it a few times and am confident I could use it in the woods. Unless I drop, my linesman's belt too....:oops:

Just thought I'd throw that out there as another last ditch descent method.
 
I imagine the knaider/swaider would be much quicker than coming back down with a climbing stand. I’m as guilty or more than most but sometimes we over think things. You can use your linesmans belt ant tether to inch worm down the tree. Use the linesmans as a foot loop and your pull up rope as a linesmans belt just to keep you close to the tree and keep your balance. It’s not fast or pretty but it will get you to the ground safely.
 
Anything that makes us safer is great advice. Thanks for the idea. Looks like I need to find a rappelling aid.
 
Jgetch said:
Anything that makes us safer is great advice. Thanks for the idea. Looks like I need to find a rappelling aid.
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If you would only rappell in an emergency situation check out a Munter hitch it twist your rope some but we are talking about emergency rappell.
 
EricS said:
If you would only rappell in an emergency situation check out a Munter hitch it twist your rope some but we are talking about emergency rappell.
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Thanks! That looks doable and then I don’t need to buy more gear. I was also looking at the “crosses carabiner” method. Uses two biners to make a brake and no twist. Now, though I’m almost thinking rappelling down might be the way to go all the time. Time for some experimenting.
 
I think this above all other reasons is why I got an SRT setup last year as well as the XOP HC. I wanted to be able to self rescue in the event of a fall or getn tangled or dropping something.

I also made a DIY grapple hook so if I drop something critical I can grab it. Which I did several times last year.

Also, in my opinion, if you are going to carry rope abs a rappel device for emergencies you had better practice with it, and in my mind be very efficient, I'm not sure you can do that with those tiny lines or the munter hitch. Oh and I learned about the munter hitch in a climbing article about the essential knots every climber should know, I think it also isn't great for the rope.

Food for thought. I think it is always good to have a backup plan regardless what it is. Even an aider that you can girth hitch around the tree would make a pretty good backup.

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L
donnieballgame said:
I think this above all other reasons is why I got an SRT setup last year as well as the XOP HC. I wanted to be able to self rescue in the event of a fall or getn tangled or dropping something.

I also made a DIY grapple hook so if I drop something critical I can grab it. Which I did several times last year.

Also, in my opinion, if you are going to carry rope abs a rappel device for emergencies you had better practice with it, and in my mind be very efficient, I'm not sure you can do that with those tiny lines or the munter hitch. Oh and I learned about the munter hitch in a climbing article about the essential knots every climber should know, I think it also isn't great for the rope.

Food for thought. I think it is always good to have a backup plan regardless what it is. Even an aider that you can girth hitch around the tree would make a pretty good backup.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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lets see that grapple hook. I could sure use one but not sure on the design.
 
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