d_rek
Well-Known Member
John Eberhart said:
John,
You are quite right. I hadn't even thought about that.
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Lets talk about scent, snow and cold temps!
- Thread starter 1simplemann
- Start date
John,
You are quite right. I hadn't even thought about that.
d_rek
Well-Known Member
boone0 said:
I have some high-loft hollow core base layers from basspro that are absolutely amazing for sub30F temps. They are the redhead xps 4.0 arctic weight ecwcs base layers. Not cheap but worth every penny
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ncsaddlebowhunter
Member
I've been using the Arctic Shield boot covers while on stand in my saddle. They don't show any signs of wear. It's an older pair with a rubber like base though. ..I don't know if the current design has that feature or not. I have the kind with a velcro closure around the ankle. I despise velcro in the woods so I cut and sewed in a vertical zipper on the back side so I just slip my foot in from the back now and zip it up. ..I think I stole the idea from the new AS covers. Anywho, I find that they work best with boots that breathe versus rubber boots and the key seems to be dry feet which I still struggle with. I powder my feet and walk slowly, but I really think JE's idea of bags over the socked feet in the boot and a sock change at stand are probably in order. I have yet to try that one. Also with the boot covers, you can drop hand warmers in them and the heat reflects back to the feet. It works well. .. if your feet are dry!
I also made an over garment that is a cross between the HBS and the warm bag that works like a champ. I bought some waterproof windproof high insulation fabric and sewed it so the opening in the center has wooden toggles through buttonholes every 2 inches. That way I can close it up around the bridge. I have zippered arm holes like the warm bag so I can get out to shoot. I made it black and made a removable camo over layer so I can use it black in a blind and ASAT everywhere else. It does work but it did take some time and modifications to get the final product. I'll post some pics if anyone wants to see. I'll have to go take some. And I'll have to pose in it so my hunting buddy can take pics of it on me in a tree setting!
I also made an over garment that is a cross between the HBS and the warm bag that works like a champ. I bought some waterproof windproof high insulation fabric and sewed it so the opening in the center has wooden toggles through buttonholes every 2 inches. That way I can close it up around the bridge. I have zippered arm holes like the warm bag so I can get out to shoot. I made it black and made a removable camo over layer so I can use it black in a blind and ASAT everywhere else. It does work but it did take some time and modifications to get the final product. I'll post some pics if anyone wants to see. I'll have to go take some. And I'll have to pose in it so my hunting buddy can take pics of it on me in a tree setting!
Yeah NC I think that is the old style AS boot shield, no velcro in mine at all, the ones that I have use a zipper in the back and a drawstring at the top. I agree nothing worse than velcro in the woods except maybe a sandwich wrapped in aluminum foil or a half empty water bottle. I use mine a lot with an old pair of Schnee pack boot liners and a couple of hand warmers they are comfortable warm and quiet. I was thinking of wearing an old pair of dive booties, they are black and have a zipper on the side with a hard rubber bottom, as shoes to walk in with and then just pull the AS boot shields over them. I could easily throw those in the wash and keep them scent free plus they are light and you can walk in them pretty easily and they would easily fit inside both the pack liner or the just the AS boot shield alone. Come to think of it I could wear another pair of boots in and switch to that at the tree...
I would really like to see your mod of the HBS/WB home-brew I think something like that has great potential as long as you're able to shoot from it quickly and comfortably. Also some of the guys would rather have ASAT than the standard that the Aero comes in so maybe something like that would cover part or all of the saddle. I just got my Aero Hunter and I'm looking forward to putting it into action but was a little concerned about sub zero weather, the saddle, and heavy winter clothing. Even though guys are saying it's not a problem having almost no time in a saddle it's hard to comprehend it not being an issue since even in fixed position stands it can be a real pain. I'm really looking forward to using and hunting from the saddle and hunting areas I couldn't before.
Roger
PS What part of NC are you from I have a buddy who lives close to Murphy and it is gorgeous down there but not a lot of deer?
I would really like to see your mod of the HBS/WB home-brew I think something like that has great potential as long as you're able to shoot from it quickly and comfortably. Also some of the guys would rather have ASAT than the standard that the Aero comes in so maybe something like that would cover part or all of the saddle. I just got my Aero Hunter and I'm looking forward to putting it into action but was a little concerned about sub zero weather, the saddle, and heavy winter clothing. Even though guys are saying it's not a problem having almost no time in a saddle it's hard to comprehend it not being an issue since even in fixed position stands it can be a real pain. I'm really looking forward to using and hunting from the saddle and hunting areas I couldn't before.
Roger
PS What part of NC are you from I have a buddy who lives close to Murphy and it is gorgeous down there but not a lot of deer?
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2014
- Messages
- 700
Dressing for cold rain, snow, bitter cold, and wind
The most challenging part of hunting beyond mid-November in most states is supposedly being “tough enough” to remain on stand for long periods of time in miserable and frigid weather conditions. Trust me on this one, how tough you are has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I’m a skinny little 155 pound guy that gets cold very easily yet I would guarantee if Hulk Hogan and I were to plan an all-day sit in single digit temperatures with 20 plus mile an hour winds, he would definitely be the first one to cry uncle and go back to the vehicle whereas I know I could sit comfortably all day. Why, because I know how to dress for and what other measures to take for hunting in severely inclement weather conditions.
Dressing for severe weather is a learned process and how tough you are or think you are is irrelevant. How you dress will dictate how long you can comfortably remain on stand which can and in many instances will have a direct correlation to how successful you may be.
I remember a 5 degree December morning muzzleloader hunt in 1976 when after I shot a spike buck, I couldn’t reload because my fingers just wouldn’t work. That’s when sticking it out that little bit longer was about being stupid, stubborn, and maybe a little tough. Those days of shivering, chattering teeth, cold feet, and blue fingers, are a thing of the distant past.
From the top down, this is how to keep warm in extreme cold conditions:
No matter how cold it is, on entries you must dress down and pack in your undergarments in either a Carbon Alloy lined Scent Lok backpack (cared for in the same manner as your Scent Lok clothing) or a different style backpack that should be frequently washed in scent free detergent.
Example: If you wear all your clothing in you’ll sweat and become cold very quickly after sitting motionless for a while. If you stood outside in a T-shirt and underwear on a 35 degree day you would withstand it quite a while before hypothermia set in whereas if you jumped in 35 degree water you’d succumb to hypothermia within minutes because moisture (your damp undergarments in this circumstance) conducts cold much quicker than air.
Head
For 20 degrees and above Scent Loks Full Season headcovers are sufficient and for temperatures below that Scent Lok’s Fleece Radar Headcover is awesome and has drop-down ear-flaps if needed. Scent Loks Full Season hat is NOT sufficient as it doesn’t have a drop down facemask to cover your hair, neck, and possible beard and any of those gaps will compromise your scent free regiment. This isn’t TV and videos where mature bucks are far more tolerant of human odor.
To camouflage what’s left of my face, once on stand I put on a Spand-O-Flage facemask with eye-holes cut out and then put the Scent Lok headcover over it.
Body
Layering allows you to walk comfortably to your stand without overheating and once on stand and your body cools down, you put on the layers of upper body clothing from your backpack.
From the waist down I wear about half the clothing as from the waist up because my lower body never seems to get cold. All lower body clothing is put on at the vehicle and wore in because you can’t easily redress your lower body while on stand.
My upper and lower bottom layers will be either Scent Lok’s Assault BaseLayers or mid to heavy weight Merino wool (not regular wool as it itches) baselayers. Scent Lok’s Baselayers have both an anti-microbial treatment and a Carbon Alloy liner that aid in killing bacteria and adsorbing molecules, both of which will add to the life of your exterior Scent Lok suit. To a lesser extent, Merino wool is also a natural scent inhibitor.
Items used for upper body layering once on stand are military wool sweaters, Rivers West’s Cold Canyon vest, River’s West’s Cascade Mountain jacket (used as a layer item), and garments specifically made as insulated layering garments such as Refrigiwear’s insulated top. Vests are great layering items because they help keep your core body warm while allowing arm mobility.
During cold and or cold windy days the cold will eventually penetrate all your insulated clothing unless one of the outer layers is membraned to make them waterproof and or windproof. Just as the polyurethane and or Teflon membranes stop the cold and wind from penetrating through, the membranes also aid in keeping your body temperature contained within the garment.
While membraned garments might have been relatively quiet in the 70 degree store you bought them in, the colder they get, the noisier they become. During cold weather with no foliage to absorb sounds, if there is no wind every noise will seem amplified. The only way to make these garments quiet is by masking the noise of the membranes with a dense or high loft fleece or a combination of the two. All Rivers West garments are waterproof and QUIET and that’s why I use them as undergarments.
Scent Lok’s new in 2014 Vortex fleece windproof suit ($150 top and $140 bottom) is far and away my choice for an exterior suit during cold weather. Vortex garments have deep napped fleece exteriors and interiors and polyurethane windproof membranes to block wind and hold in your body heat.
For 2015 Scent Lok added a Covert Deluxe fleece windproof suit ($200 per piece) and it has a deeper napped exterior and interior than the Vortex and has more pocket features. The Covert uses the same polyurethane windproof membrane, but due to its deeper napped interior and exterior fleece is a warmer suit than the Vortex and one I will be wearing in extreme cold.
I always wear my Scent Lok exterior suit to my stand so as not to leave human odor on anything I may brush against or in the tall weeds or marsh grass I may walk through. Typically on my upper body I’ll only wear my bottom layer beneath it.
Feet
Most insulated boots come with temperature ratings that are rather meaningless because they are walking ratings, not sitting ratings. While I own many pairs of rubber and neoprene boots for differing temperatures, those 1,200 and 2,000 gram insulated rubber boots and Mucks Arctic Sport boots will not keep my feet warm when sitting long hours in bitter cold temperatures.
I own quality rubber boots with removable insulated liners from Red Ball, La Crosse, Rocky, and Northern and unfortunately none of them are made anymore. Baffin, a company out of Canada, makes a Titan boot and it’s the only knee high rubber boot with removable insulated pack that’s still made that keeps my feet warm in bitter cold temperatures.
Insulated liners need to be removed and both them and the interior of the boots need to be dried with an electric boot dryer so that you start each hunt with dry boots and liners. Electric boot dryers are less than $40.
Due to the lack of breathability, on extremely long entries (mile or more) the sweat from your feet will dampen your socks and liner causing your feet to get cold faster once on stand. In the 1980’s I came up with a solution to this problem. On Federal land my entry was a little more than two miles from the parking area and once on stand my socks and liners were wet from sweat. Within several hours of being on stand the single digit temperatures froze my feet and forced me to abort the hunt.
The next day I put 2 pairs of wool socks in my backpack and did the following: Wore a pair of regular white socks, covered them with plastic grocery bags, and put on my pack boots for the long walk in. At the base of the tree I took off the bag and white socks and put on the dry socks, placing the wet sweaty socks and the grocery bags in a gallon Zip Lok bag. I then had dry boots, liners, socks, and feet, and was able to sit on stand all day.
New for 2015 Scent Lok has Thermal boot socks ($30) and Merino Thermal Crewmax socks ($25) both of which are made from wool with silver and carbon fiber technology. Wool is a unique fabric that will retain some heat when damp or wet. While I’m not concerned about foot odor because the non-breathable boots contain it, these new socks are awesome in killing bacteria, odor adsorption, and comfort.
Hands
Heavy insulated gloves are a pain for bowhunting, because you lose your sense of touch. Scent Lok’s new Savanna Shooters ($30) and or Full Season ($40) gloves are my current choice. I hated Scent Lok’s gloves in the past but they have a new source and are much better made. These gloves contain Carbon Alloy so touching stuff during entries will not be a factor. I use a quiet hand warmer muff with a waist strap and inside it I put a Grabber air-activated Mega warmer to keep my hands warm. The waist strap will keep the muff in place during a shot opportunity.
Now, the biggest secret in the Industry on keeping warm
An item we I’ve been using for years is Grabber’s air-activated Peel-N-Stick Body warmers. They were originally introduced into the medical marketplace for people with arthritis and unlike Hand, Toe, and Mega warmers that allow temperature fluctuations according to the amount of air they receive, these gems maintain temperatures between 130 and 145 degrees at all times. When properly and strategically placed, they keep me toasty warm and extend my hunting time until I’m tired of sitting. There is absolutely no way in bitter cold weather, even with my layering system, that I could remain on stand as long as I do without Grabber’s Body warmers.
Once on stand and my body cools down I adhere Body warmers to the outside of my upper body base layers and the severity of the weather dictates how many I’ll use. I’ve used as many as five on one site, but usually only use two. Typically I’ll stick one on each side of my ribcage and maybe one over my sternum. On occasion I’ve put one on my lower back and one at the base of my neck.
Grabber’s Body warmers last for 12-plus hours so there usually good for two to three hunts. Once a hunt is over, while still on stand, open your layers and peel them off, stick them together (perpendicular to each other) and slide put them in a quart size Zip Lok freezer bag and flatten it out and seal it. This cuts off the air supply (deactivates them) so they can be used again.
Warning: Do not use any other air-activated warmers against your base layers unless the packaging states you can. Hand, Toe, and Mega warmers placed that close to your skin may cause burns as they do not have controlled temperatures.
I also use Grabber’s hand (7-plus hours) and mega warmers (12-plus hours) and usually keep them in my pockets unless wearing a hand warmer muff. These too will be stored in the same Zip Lok bag as my body warmers if I think I can get another hunt out of them.
In extreme cold I put Grabber’s adhesive Toe warmers on top of my socks before putting on my boots. Because the only air these warmers receive has to enter through the throat of the boot they do not get as warm as when used as designed for breathable leather or Cordura boots where air enters and exits the boot everywhere along with your foot odor. Don’t however wear leather or Cordura boots as they will destroy any scent free regiment.
Other brands and styles of air-activated warmers may work but I use Grabber products because they have proven to be the most consistent.
Hunt safe and stay warm
The most challenging part of hunting beyond mid-November in most states is supposedly being “tough enough” to remain on stand for long periods of time in miserable and frigid weather conditions. Trust me on this one, how tough you are has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I’m a skinny little 155 pound guy that gets cold very easily yet I would guarantee if Hulk Hogan and I were to plan an all-day sit in single digit temperatures with 20 plus mile an hour winds, he would definitely be the first one to cry uncle and go back to the vehicle whereas I know I could sit comfortably all day. Why, because I know how to dress for and what other measures to take for hunting in severely inclement weather conditions.
Dressing for severe weather is a learned process and how tough you are or think you are is irrelevant. How you dress will dictate how long you can comfortably remain on stand which can and in many instances will have a direct correlation to how successful you may be.
I remember a 5 degree December morning muzzleloader hunt in 1976 when after I shot a spike buck, I couldn’t reload because my fingers just wouldn’t work. That’s when sticking it out that little bit longer was about being stupid, stubborn, and maybe a little tough. Those days of shivering, chattering teeth, cold feet, and blue fingers, are a thing of the distant past.
From the top down, this is how to keep warm in extreme cold conditions:
No matter how cold it is, on entries you must dress down and pack in your undergarments in either a Carbon Alloy lined Scent Lok backpack (cared for in the same manner as your Scent Lok clothing) or a different style backpack that should be frequently washed in scent free detergent.
Example: If you wear all your clothing in you’ll sweat and become cold very quickly after sitting motionless for a while. If you stood outside in a T-shirt and underwear on a 35 degree day you would withstand it quite a while before hypothermia set in whereas if you jumped in 35 degree water you’d succumb to hypothermia within minutes because moisture (your damp undergarments in this circumstance) conducts cold much quicker than air.
Head
For 20 degrees and above Scent Loks Full Season headcovers are sufficient and for temperatures below that Scent Lok’s Fleece Radar Headcover is awesome and has drop-down ear-flaps if needed. Scent Loks Full Season hat is NOT sufficient as it doesn’t have a drop down facemask to cover your hair, neck, and possible beard and any of those gaps will compromise your scent free regiment. This isn’t TV and videos where mature bucks are far more tolerant of human odor.
To camouflage what’s left of my face, once on stand I put on a Spand-O-Flage facemask with eye-holes cut out and then put the Scent Lok headcover over it.
Body
Layering allows you to walk comfortably to your stand without overheating and once on stand and your body cools down, you put on the layers of upper body clothing from your backpack.
From the waist down I wear about half the clothing as from the waist up because my lower body never seems to get cold. All lower body clothing is put on at the vehicle and wore in because you can’t easily redress your lower body while on stand.
My upper and lower bottom layers will be either Scent Lok’s Assault BaseLayers or mid to heavy weight Merino wool (not regular wool as it itches) baselayers. Scent Lok’s Baselayers have both an anti-microbial treatment and a Carbon Alloy liner that aid in killing bacteria and adsorbing molecules, both of which will add to the life of your exterior Scent Lok suit. To a lesser extent, Merino wool is also a natural scent inhibitor.
Items used for upper body layering once on stand are military wool sweaters, Rivers West’s Cold Canyon vest, River’s West’s Cascade Mountain jacket (used as a layer item), and garments specifically made as insulated layering garments such as Refrigiwear’s insulated top. Vests are great layering items because they help keep your core body warm while allowing arm mobility.
During cold and or cold windy days the cold will eventually penetrate all your insulated clothing unless one of the outer layers is membraned to make them waterproof and or windproof. Just as the polyurethane and or Teflon membranes stop the cold and wind from penetrating through, the membranes also aid in keeping your body temperature contained within the garment.
While membraned garments might have been relatively quiet in the 70 degree store you bought them in, the colder they get, the noisier they become. During cold weather with no foliage to absorb sounds, if there is no wind every noise will seem amplified. The only way to make these garments quiet is by masking the noise of the membranes with a dense or high loft fleece or a combination of the two. All Rivers West garments are waterproof and QUIET and that’s why I use them as undergarments.
Scent Lok’s new in 2014 Vortex fleece windproof suit ($150 top and $140 bottom) is far and away my choice for an exterior suit during cold weather. Vortex garments have deep napped fleece exteriors and interiors and polyurethane windproof membranes to block wind and hold in your body heat.
For 2015 Scent Lok added a Covert Deluxe fleece windproof suit ($200 per piece) and it has a deeper napped exterior and interior than the Vortex and has more pocket features. The Covert uses the same polyurethane windproof membrane, but due to its deeper napped interior and exterior fleece is a warmer suit than the Vortex and one I will be wearing in extreme cold.
I always wear my Scent Lok exterior suit to my stand so as not to leave human odor on anything I may brush against or in the tall weeds or marsh grass I may walk through. Typically on my upper body I’ll only wear my bottom layer beneath it.
Feet
Most insulated boots come with temperature ratings that are rather meaningless because they are walking ratings, not sitting ratings. While I own many pairs of rubber and neoprene boots for differing temperatures, those 1,200 and 2,000 gram insulated rubber boots and Mucks Arctic Sport boots will not keep my feet warm when sitting long hours in bitter cold temperatures.
I own quality rubber boots with removable insulated liners from Red Ball, La Crosse, Rocky, and Northern and unfortunately none of them are made anymore. Baffin, a company out of Canada, makes a Titan boot and it’s the only knee high rubber boot with removable insulated pack that’s still made that keeps my feet warm in bitter cold temperatures.
Insulated liners need to be removed and both them and the interior of the boots need to be dried with an electric boot dryer so that you start each hunt with dry boots and liners. Electric boot dryers are less than $40.
Due to the lack of breathability, on extremely long entries (mile or more) the sweat from your feet will dampen your socks and liner causing your feet to get cold faster once on stand. In the 1980’s I came up with a solution to this problem. On Federal land my entry was a little more than two miles from the parking area and once on stand my socks and liners were wet from sweat. Within several hours of being on stand the single digit temperatures froze my feet and forced me to abort the hunt.
The next day I put 2 pairs of wool socks in my backpack and did the following: Wore a pair of regular white socks, covered them with plastic grocery bags, and put on my pack boots for the long walk in. At the base of the tree I took off the bag and white socks and put on the dry socks, placing the wet sweaty socks and the grocery bags in a gallon Zip Lok bag. I then had dry boots, liners, socks, and feet, and was able to sit on stand all day.
New for 2015 Scent Lok has Thermal boot socks ($30) and Merino Thermal Crewmax socks ($25) both of which are made from wool with silver and carbon fiber technology. Wool is a unique fabric that will retain some heat when damp or wet. While I’m not concerned about foot odor because the non-breathable boots contain it, these new socks are awesome in killing bacteria, odor adsorption, and comfort.
Hands
Heavy insulated gloves are a pain for bowhunting, because you lose your sense of touch. Scent Lok’s new Savanna Shooters ($30) and or Full Season ($40) gloves are my current choice. I hated Scent Lok’s gloves in the past but they have a new source and are much better made. These gloves contain Carbon Alloy so touching stuff during entries will not be a factor. I use a quiet hand warmer muff with a waist strap and inside it I put a Grabber air-activated Mega warmer to keep my hands warm. The waist strap will keep the muff in place during a shot opportunity.
Now, the biggest secret in the Industry on keeping warm
An item we I’ve been using for years is Grabber’s air-activated Peel-N-Stick Body warmers. They were originally introduced into the medical marketplace for people with arthritis and unlike Hand, Toe, and Mega warmers that allow temperature fluctuations according to the amount of air they receive, these gems maintain temperatures between 130 and 145 degrees at all times. When properly and strategically placed, they keep me toasty warm and extend my hunting time until I’m tired of sitting. There is absolutely no way in bitter cold weather, even with my layering system, that I could remain on stand as long as I do without Grabber’s Body warmers.
Once on stand and my body cools down I adhere Body warmers to the outside of my upper body base layers and the severity of the weather dictates how many I’ll use. I’ve used as many as five on one site, but usually only use two. Typically I’ll stick one on each side of my ribcage and maybe one over my sternum. On occasion I’ve put one on my lower back and one at the base of my neck.
Grabber’s Body warmers last for 12-plus hours so there usually good for two to three hunts. Once a hunt is over, while still on stand, open your layers and peel them off, stick them together (perpendicular to each other) and slide put them in a quart size Zip Lok freezer bag and flatten it out and seal it. This cuts off the air supply (deactivates them) so they can be used again.
Warning: Do not use any other air-activated warmers against your base layers unless the packaging states you can. Hand, Toe, and Mega warmers placed that close to your skin may cause burns as they do not have controlled temperatures.
I also use Grabber’s hand (7-plus hours) and mega warmers (12-plus hours) and usually keep them in my pockets unless wearing a hand warmer muff. These too will be stored in the same Zip Lok bag as my body warmers if I think I can get another hunt out of them.
In extreme cold I put Grabber’s adhesive Toe warmers on top of my socks before putting on my boots. Because the only air these warmers receive has to enter through the throat of the boot they do not get as warm as when used as designed for breathable leather or Cordura boots where air enters and exits the boot everywhere along with your foot odor. Don’t however wear leather or Cordura boots as they will destroy any scent free regiment.
Other brands and styles of air-activated warmers may work but I use Grabber products because they have proven to be the most consistent.
Hunt safe and stay warm
If you take nothing else away from John's post, pay attention to the grabber adhesive body warmers. Put one on each kidney and one over your heart. You will not get cold. Put them in a ziploc bag after the first hunt and they'll easily last another session. I used them this season and can assure you they work extremely well.
Watch the prices on Amazon throughout the summer. I bought a case on sale in August for $15.
Watch the prices on Amazon throughout the summer. I bought a case on sale in August for $15.