Modern Archery...good lord...

[Kurt]

About $2000 dollar you could have your self a real deer killing machine. It's an old F150 with a big light bar on top. Add a front grill guard for a little extra FOC. Hit them back roads at night. You'll have your self a booner in no time. Don't have to buy a tag either. Just call dah blues and have them give you one. Unless you've had to many sodas. You could fill the freezer in no time. Best part is you can hunt year round.

Damn, that's cheaper than saddle hunting, no hip pinch.

 

[splatek]

And now we got catahoulas....

Best dang dog on the planet! Had one pass last year and another 4 year old in the pack at home. He is amazing. Just had a baby and he can change from rowdy game chaser, guard dog, to gentle nose sniffer in a flip of a switch with that babe! I won't ever own another breed of dog.

As per the conversation at hand, I hear it a lot. Last season was my first hunting season at 46. I had a neighbor tell me he hunted, but "cheated" - when queried he said he used a crossbow. I had just received a free crossbow, which is why I was finally - after decades of interest - taking the dive into hunting. I was confused. Then I began to realize that folks that shot vertical bows thought xbows did damage to their animals, seasons, etc. This fella had actually been called a cheater. That first season I killed one deer with that free crossbow, two with a hand me down compound bow, and let two very small deer walk while in the saddle with my recurve. I have a crossbow for my 9 year old, because his draw weight on the recurve just aint there. Accuracy is, but I wouldn't want him to hurt a deer on his first try. He's taken a squirrel with the xbow at 20. Isn't it all about challenging yourself with the weapon you choose? Hunter on hunter (verbal) aggression can't be good for any aspect of the sport, IMHO.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

Damn, that's cheaper than saddle hunting, no hip pinch.

And you can still harvest deer when your 90 years old. No pack out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Kurt]

I love the multifaceted nature of this conversation. It's controversial by nature, just because it incorporates so many personal choices. It's steeped in heritage, modernization, ethics, legislation, and biology. For me it starts with the biology. With great power comes great responsibility, We have been chosen to be the stewards of the land, thank your over sized brain, and opposing thumbs, do we want that responsibility? It doesn't matter, it's ours. Some choose to do nothing. They are so outside the natural order they're ignorance of it would be detrimental to it should they be the ones to manage it. No one gave a blue print on how to manage it. Life is so dynamic. The problems of 50 years ago are not the problems we face today. We use science to manage populations. It's really the one thing that's constant. Not that science doesn't change, but more it's the application of the science in the face of the shifting dynamics of "human" life/populations, and our ever increasing knowledge of the natural world. Mother nature uses all of the tools at her disposal why shouldn't we? If a man digs a hole in the ground with a back hoe and all you see is the hole what does it matter what it was dug with? As long as the hole is of the proper dimensions for the task for which it was designed. If another man digs his hole within specs with a shovel isn't it still a hole. Both the back hoe operator and the guy with the shovel can be proud of the work they did with the tool they used, and each should be able to show their satisfaction to anyone and have their efforts positively affirmed. Excessive satisfaction / pride would run like tar coating their work and their ability to see and affirm anothers work, and mucking up everything else around it. Hey, at least they got off the couch and dug the freakin hole. Some folks just ain't gettin off the couch. To each his own. within the confines of solid biology and the law. History and heritage can, and should play a role in how we move forward. Preserving the traditions of our hunting heritage while we embrace the changes needed for success in the future will be the greatest challenge of our pursuit. Lets be problem solvers not bitchers and complainers. Like a fine blade of solid steel will fracture with the presence of a micoscopic blemish, so will our sport if we don't learn to be more tolerant of the differences within our ranks, and learn to see that we are far stronger together than any one faction could ever be alone. So whether it's a compound, or recurve, or long bow, or crossbow it's still just a shovel,... or a back hoe. We can be tolerant or we can mind our own p's and q's either way we are in this together.
I know some hunters who can't get it done with a gun. It won't matter to that crowd what they can hunt with, or which season they can hunt with it in.
Reading this thread from start to finish leaves me with an over whelming feeling of hope for the future of our sport. As long as we have some folks who who are willing to get off the couch and lead our ranks through meaningful and intelligent conversation, with tolerance and acceptance for the science and the methods, we have a bright future... together.
Never to be confused with the fact that saddle hunters are way better than those poor unfortunates who still use treestands, I mean really? Can you imagine, " whats better a hang on or a climber"? Hahahahaha!!!!!
You guys are awesome!
....and for yous guys who read all the way to the bottom of this post, you should have your heads examined.
see, even crazy is more comfortable in a tight knit group.

 

[MattMan81]

Anyone who uses a fishing lure that isn't live bait on a hook is not a real fisherman. Back in the day that's all they had when fishing started. All these fancy lures, down rigers, electronics take away from what fishing is suppose to be. Can't stand it. If that fish didn't come with a cane pole cut from the local Forrest, and a home made hook with a worm or live minnow. It dosent count. Put an astrikes next to it. It's not real fishing............

 

[jspradley]

The purity contest that a lot of folks seem to play gets pretty silly after a while.

Unless you're hunting butt nekkid with a rock here's always somebody more "trad" than you.

 

[Nutterbuster]

I agree that hunters need to stick together. That's what bugs me the most about the hardcore, purist bowhunters. I get friendly competition and chain-yanking. But the only time I've been in a hunting camp with a trad archer, I'm sad to say he threw genuine shade at my wheelie bow all week. Wouldn't shut up about it, and even though he's a cool dude who's done a lot of cool things, I got real tired of his attitude. Especially after we hunted a week and he had seen 0 deer and I'd flung arrows at 2.

Me, I'll set myself on fire before I quit hunting because of a guy like that. But I wonder what kind of impression he makes in camp with less hard-headed kids. If I was going to start a new hobby and ran into a guy like that early on, I'd make a mental note that I didn't want to spend my free time hanging out with a bunch of gatekeepers.

And bow season, in my mind, is a weird thing. Why do archers deserve a "special season?" Why do they need one? Can they not hang with the gun hunters? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the extra month here in Alabama. I get that some areas aren't really "right" for gun hunting due to population or parcel size too. But why do you get your own time in the woods, PLUS the ability to hunt whenever and wherever a gun hunter wants to be? Laws don't get passed without money and influence, and since the early days archery has been a magnet for the folks with the ability and the desire to use a law to get their way.

I've never seen a gun hunter want a bowhunter run off a club, or want a bowhunter's season shortened, or any of the other nonsense I regularly see the hardcore bowhunter guys endorse. Never seen a crossbow hunter or compound hunter want a trad bow outlawed, even though one could pretty easily make the argument that they're inferior killing machines fraught with their own ethical problems. Something about bowhunting attracts the kind of guy who calls the HOA when you don't cut your grass one weekend.

Don't even get me started about dog hunting and bow hunting in my state. You wanna talk about killing a tradition? 'Cause bowhunting has killed a sport that has been around for WAY longer than it has. More money, more influence, and a willingness to run off the "less-thans." I can't say I'll cry if "pure" archery dies because the boot ends up on a different foot.

And believe it or not, I like traditional archery. My great-grandfather was the coolest guy to ever walk the planet, and he made his own osage and hickory bows. I started with an old Bear fiberglass recurve, and placed with it in several contests when I was a kid. Used to shoot for hours and hours. But even as a kid, when I listened to the old men in the club sneer and scoff about the new crossbow law and say that THIS club would never allow them, I felt like it was distasteful and disappointing.

 

[Kurt]

The purity contest that a lot of folks seem to play gets pretty silly after a while.

Unless you're hunting butt nekkid with a rock here's always somebody more "trad" than you.

What? you use a rock? Everyone knows the best way to kill something is with your bare hands.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I’m happy to separate a conversation about the tradeoffs of allowing “technology” into bow season. That seems markedly different from the tenor of previous posts on the topic.

it actually seems like a good topic to discuss on this site, as it leans heavy to archery, but has plenty of equal opportunity grocery getters. @Allegheny Tom happy to continue that topic in another thread maybe?

PM sent.

 

[FLYIN_HAYN]

Best dang dog on the planet! Had one pass last year and another 4 year old in the pack at home. He is amazing. Just had a baby and he can change from rowdy game chaser, guard dog, to gentle nose sniffer in a flip of a switch with that babe! I won't ever own another breed of dog.

As per the conversation at hand, I hear it a lot. Last season was my first hunting season at 46. I had a neighbor tell me he hunted, but "cheated" - when queried he said he used a crossbow. I had just received a free crossbow, which is why I was finally - after decades of interest - taking the dive into hunting. I was confused. Then I began to realize that folks that shot vertical bows thought xbows did damage to their animals, seasons, etc. This fella had actually been called a cheater. That first season I killed one deer with that free crossbow, two with a hand me down compound bow, and let two very small deer walk while in the saddle with my recurve. I have a crossbow for my 9 year old, because his draw weight on the recurve just aint there. Accuracy is, but I wouldn't want him to hurt a deer on his first try. He's taken a squirrel with the xbow at 20. Isn't it all about challenging yourself with the weapon you choose? Hunter on hunter (verbal) aggression can't be good for any aspect of the sport, IMHO.

Yup one of the better working breeds! i used to breed em out here for working wild cattle and pigs.... Sent dogs all over from hawaii to guam to da mainland.... i still got a 12yr old bitch that amost died 3 times from pigs but still can out track all the other dogs and hold big pigs by her self... she nip da nuts, sit em, and spin em till i come with my 3030.... she and her daughters produced some quality pups over the years.... my uncle originally got her mom from Aubrey Aden in Mississippi and da dad from Abney Catahoulas out in Louisiana... got another stud from the mooreheads at Salty Catahoulas in Oklahoma which is the father to a daughter i still got... he is action too, grab big pigs by him self but he get all buss up kuz he go in head on rather then from the rear so i take him with his daughter and grandson... his daughter produced some of the best stalking dogs ive ever seen or used... im talking cat like.... right now im working on a line specifically for deer from that daughter. Bred her to a heeler,collie,kelpie mix and kept one pup for continue the line, the rest went to ranchers. That pup is unreal! Nose and work ethic like the grandma, stealthy like her mom, and herds like da dad! Oh yah did i mention they play tug of war with my 17month old son... super family oriented and listen real well... only problem is they are Houdini's.... allways escaping the kennel

 

[GCTerpfan]

I'm still trying to figure out what comment set off the anti-trad crowd. It appears to be Tom's but, it was a pretty benign comment. A guy who chooses to handicap himself by using a more primitive weapon isn't doing it to increase his efficiency he is doing it to add an additional challenge (or to have a different journey as Tom put it.) There is nothing wrong with that or the guy who doesn't make that choice. I spent several years chasing mature deer with a crossbow, I now spend my time chasing any deer with a recurve. They're both fun and offer their own unique challenges.

@Nutterbuster I wouldn't let one guy taint your opinion of traditional archers. As someone who owns rifles, recurves, longbows and crossbows and routinely hunt with people from all of those groups I can assure you that that there are jacka**'s in every crowd. I have taken just as much grief from compound and crossbow guys when I showed up with my "stick and string" as I have from Trad guys when I showed up with a crossbow. We shouldn't stereotype any group from the actions of a few.

As far as your comment about rifle hunters not kicking bow hunters out of camp, I spent over a decade staring out the window of my parents house at 2500 acres that I couldn't bow hunt because the guy who owned it called arrows "fester sticks" and would only allow people to rifle hunt. I now have a neighbor at my current house that allows me to rifle hunt his 160 acres but, wont allow me to muzzleload or bow hunt because he considers them both "unethical". Either I have some really bad luck or there are more of those guys out there than you realize.

 

[kyler1945]

I'm still trying to figure out what comment set off the anti-trad crowd. It appears to be Tom's but, it was a pretty benign comment. A guy who chooses to handicap himself by using a more primitive weapon isn't doing it to increase his efficiency he is doing it to add an additional challenge (or to have a different journey as Tom put it.) There is nothing wrong with that or the guy who doesn't make that choice. I spent several years chasing mature deer with a crossbow, I now spend my time chasing any deer with a recurve. They're both fun and offer their own unique challenges.

@Nutterbuster I wouldn't let one guy taint your opinion of traditional archers. As someone who owns rifles, recurves, longbows and crossbows and routinely hunt with people from all of those groups I can assure you that that there are jacka**'s in every crowd. I have taken just as much grief from compound and crossbow guys when I showed up with my "stick and string" as I have from Trad guys when I showed up with a crossbow. We shouldn't stereotype any group from the actions of a few.

As far as your comment about rifle hunters not kicking bow hunters out of camp, I spent over a decade staring out the window of my parents house at 2500 acres that I couldn't bow hunt because the guy who owned it called arrows "fester sticks" and would only allow people to rifle hunt. I now have a neighbor at my current house that allows me to rifle hunt his 160 acres but, wont allow me to muzzleload or bow hunt because he considers them both "unethical". Either I have some really bad luck or there are more of those guys out there than you realize.

tom didn’t say say “different“ journey. He flat out said one is without a journey, and is a shortcut. It can be. Just like trad without making all your own stuff from natural materials with no modern tools or techniques is a shortcut. But it’s that exact rhetoric that causes the division, regardless of the intent. Which is why I called on it. He clarified, and it seems his issue is not with what people choose to do, but it’s impact on a larger issue - hunting season fragility.

that’s cleared up - but the point stands. There’s a way to promote quality communication and fraternity within the ranks. It’s not easy, and requires thought and effort. And leadership. I’m not saying I do what it takes. But it’s much simpler to keep the self righteous nonsense to yourself, if you have no intent on Taking action to improve the situation. And speak clearly on the issues that affect us all. Otherwise it’s just juvenile pettiness that divides.

I’m not here to police speech. I’m just pointing out where the bad taste in my mouth comes from. And I’m not alone. And if I thought it was from a place of ill intent - I wouldn’t say anything. I think it just comes from ignorance or apathy. Either way, that can be corrected if called out for what it is.

we’ve beat the horse, but I just saw his leg twitch...


Edit - I enjoy sh!t talking as much as anyone when it's good natured, and in good faith. That's the good stuff. I didn't see any of that here though, just exclusionary nonsense.

 

[rhagenw]

“If you don’t chew Big Red.... Then F**** YOU!!”

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