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Modern Archery...good lord...

Nutterbuster said:
This. 2 wealthy white dudes from the city met a native american who hunted with what he had to feed himself and they turned that into hunting's version of golf or polo. I have a feeling Ishi would have much sooner hunted with a crossbow than wrote a book or started a society.

Anytime somebody makes up a criteria for being a "real" anything, I'm out. Somehow I'm not a real whiskey drinker, a real beer enthusiast, or a real bowhunter. But I shoot lots of critters with arrows, and celebrate with lots of beer and whiskey. :)
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Ha. This is a very good post.
 
jspradley said:
I just remembered the time I was told my Satori wasn't "trad" because it had a rest...by a guy shooting aluminum arrows lol
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I think the tradition for some guys is finding a reason to dislike people who are only 95% like them. It's a human specialty.

I don't wanna throw the baby out work the bathwater though. I love @Vtbow even if he does post on the trad page.
 
Tr33_n1nj@ said:
I was gonna go over in the traditional section and talk trash to some of the real hardcore guys, but I couldn’t find the flint knapping thread...
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I tried that. Couldn’t ever make a good stone head. Would get close on a few and it would break in half on the final flakes to be taken off. So I just bought one. Cut a groove in a cedar shaft, tied it on with sinew and pine pitch, cut a string groove on the nock end. Tied on turkey feathers with sinew and pine pitch. Spin tested good. Shot at the target good. Took it hog hunting. No hogs came but a coon played under my stand all afternoon. I shot down at him right between the shoulders. He ran off with my trad arrow and I never could find him or my arrow.
Went back to steel broadheads and carbon arrows with a wood grain print finish! Lol
 
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Nutterbuster said:
I think the tradition for some guys is finding a reason to dislike people who are only 95% like them. It's a human specialty.

I don't wanna throw the baby out work the bathwater though. I love @Vtbow even if he does post on the trad page.
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I'm alsp probably the only trad guy on the planet planning on hunting with an xbow this season :)

I don't care how anyone else hunts, as long as it's legal and ethical and they have fun doing it.
 
I just got in from shooting at 100 yards with my ten year old compound. 530 grain arrows with zinger four fletches that cost me about 12.00 a piece. I shoot at an 18" block target on top of another block target on concrete, with no backstop besides a pile of metal, my garage wall, etc. If you saw my thread on the paper tuning rack in my fawyer, you see I have little regard for collateral damage when I'm shooting. I do care about human life, but besides that, all surrounding equipment, furniture, walls, are fair game.

If I break focus, and move my bow over 1/16" left or right at that distance, it costs me 12.00. I'm not made of money, and certainly don't enjoy wasting it on breaking arrows.

Is it as pure as carving my own bow from a piece of wood, and drying out animal sinew to make a string? No. But I've got to have my mind right to do it. I can shoot 20 or 30 yards with no concentration. I can shoot 40 or 50 yards with my phone in my pocket buzzing and neighbors talking and skeeters biting. I can shoot 60 or 70 yards with a fairly clear head. Shooting 80 plus yards in my current environment requires some serious concentration. I've shot tens of thousands of arrows in my life and I'm grateful for being introduced at a young age. This allows me the confidence to act like a fool and shoot with "high stakes".

The above scenario is recreated at about 20 yards with my trad bow. Is it gratifying to be precise with that bow at 20 yards? Heck yeh. No more gratifying than dropping them in the bucket from 100 with a wheel bow though. Everyone thinks they can shoot from 100 yards with a compound like its nothing. I agree, if you have hay bales for backstops in a low cut field. I suspect there are far fewer of us who can afford to shoot at extreme distance with no room for error. Am I bragging? Nope. Am I saying other people aren't cool if they can't do it? Nope. I'm just making the point that a person can work at a craft, in any of it's forms, and generate satisfaction beyond the norm. I'm happy if you're happy. Go fling arrows. Life's short.
 
kyler1945 said:
I just got in from shooting at 100 yards with my ten year old compound. 530 grain arrows with zinger four fletches that cost me about 12.00 a piece. I shoot at an 18" block target on top of another block target on concrete, with no backstop besides a pile of metal, my garage wall, etc. If you saw my thread on the paper tuning rack in my fawyer, you see I have little regard for collateral damage when I'm shooting. I do care about human life, but besides that, all surrounding equipment, furniture, walls, are fair game.

If I break focus, and move my bow over 1/16" left or right at that distance, it costs me 12.00. I'm not made of money, and certainly don't enjoy wasting it on breaking arrows.

Is it as pure as carving my own bow from a piece of wood, and drying out animal sinew to make a string? No. But I've got to have my mind right to do it. I can shoot 20 or 30 yards with no concentration. I can shoot 40 or 50 yards with my phone in my pocket buzzing and neighbors talking and skeeters biting. I can shoot 60 or 70 yards with a fairly clear head. Shooting 80 plus yards in my current environment requires some serious concentration. I've shot tens of thousands of arrows in my life and I'm grateful for being introduced at a young age. This allows me the confidence to act like a fool and shoot with "high stakes".

The above scenario is recreated at about 20 yards with my trad bow. Is it gratifying to be precise with that bow at 20 yards? Heck yeh. No more gratifying than dropping them in the bucket from 100 with a wheel bow though. Everyone thinks they can shoot from 100 yards with a compound like its nothing. I agree, if you have hay bales for backstops in a low cut field. I suspect there are far fewer of us who can afford to shoot at extreme distance with no room for error. Am I bragging? Nope. Am I saying other people aren't cool if they can't do it? Nope. I'm just making the point that a person can work at a craft, in any of it's forms, and generate satisfaction beyond the norm. I'm happy if you're happy. Go fling arrows. Life's short.
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Yup, do what makes you happy and stay excited about it. It may change depending on your time and energy, and goals for your life at that point on time...
 
I'm gonna make one more post, then bail out of this thread. I've seen too many of these types of discussions go ugly.

This is how I look at the topic, not saying I'm right or anyone else is wrong, but in my heart, this is where I believe bowhunting is headed.
So many posts, not just in this thread, but also in hundreds of posts in dozens of threads on many forums, are from the "me" point of view. "I don't have time to practice" etc.
Seldom do posters look at the issue outside of their own desires.
I look at it from the position of a defense to our season.
It took a lot of effort from our founders of bowseasons to get a bowseason legalized. We have this great opportunity to have "our" season...bow season.
But its being eroded by tech creep. It started with a simple compound...round wheels, 50% let off, shot with fingers...pretty benign.
We've gone from that to debating on including crossbows in bow season, and now, the newest gizmo is the air bow. The air bow will start out as being needed for "X" group...handicapped, kids, etc. But it won't end there. Eventually, air blows (not a typo) will be expanded, and it won't stop there. Anyone paying a slightest bit of attention to archery in the last 25 years can see that if they are honest with themselves.
I've heard the "its legal" argument. Our bureaucrats have no soul. Look at some of the other practices they've legalized. The list of that stuff is long. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it healthy for (whatever the subject).
Technology creep into bowseason, in the long term big picture, is not healthy towards keeping a bow only season.
But I don't actually knap my own stone points so I guess I'm considered a tech archer in some circles.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
I'm gonna make one more post, then bail out of this thread. I've seen too many of these types of discussions go ugly.

This is how I look at the topic, not saying I'm right or anyone else is wrong, but in my heart, this is where I believe bowhunting is headed.
So many posts, not just in this thread, but also in hundreds of posts in dozens of threads on many forums, are from the "me" point of view. "I don't have time to practice" etc.
Seldom do posters look at the issue outside of their own desires.
I look at it from the position of a defense to our season.
It took a lot of effort from our founders of bowseasons to get a bowseason legalized. We have this great opportunity to have "our" season...bow season.
But its being eroded by tech creep. It started with a simple compound...round wheels, 50% let off, shot with fingers...pretty benign.
We've gone from that to debating on including crossbows in bow season, and now, the newest gizmo is the air bow. The air bow will start out as being needed for "X" group...handicapped, kids, etc. But it won't end there. Eventually, air blows (not a typo) will be expanded, and it won't stop there. Anyone paying a slightest bit of attention to archery in the last 25 years can see that if they are honest with themselves.
I've heard the "its legal" argument. Our bureaucrats have no soul. Look at some of the other practices they've legalized. The list of that stuff is long. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it healthy for (whatever the subject).
Technology creep into bowseason, in the long term big picture, is not healthy towards keeping a bow only season.
But I don't actually knap my own stone points so I guess I'm considered a tech archer in some circles.
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Not trying to be contraversal by any means, but you shoot carbon arrows right? FF string? We all choose things to give ourselves modern advantages one way or another... I'm a traditionalist at heart, understand and agree with manysides of this discussion.
 
I’m happy to separate a conversation about the tradeoffs of allowing “technology” into bow season. That seems markedly different from the tenor of previous posts on the topic.

it actually seems like a good topic to discuss on this site, as it leans heavy to archery, but has plenty of equal opportunity grocery getters. @Allegheny Tom happy to continue that topic in another thread maybe?
 
I think what the trad archers don’t always realize is that they need compounds and crossbows. If archery season was only trad, there would not be nearly enough archery hunters to have any pull in the way seasons etc shake out.
 
BenG said:
I think what the trad archers don’t always realize is that they need compounds and crossbows. If archery season was only trad, there would not be nearly enough archery hunters to have any pull in the way seasons etc shake out.
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Just like as a compound user I need trad and crossbow hunters. Just the way it is now. Don’t think there’s any going back. I’m not so sure the air bows are any more efficient at killing than crossbows but I admittedly don’t know a ton about either one.
 
I’m hoping somebody (I’m looking at you ATF) classifies airbows and air rifles as firearms. They should be categorized not by the projectile that shoots out of them, but by the mechanism that propels that projectile, which is a controlled explosion by release of pressure. Otherwise a muzzleloader shooting roundball is a slingshot.
 
Tr33_n1nj@ said:
I’m hoping somebody (I’m looking at you ATF) classifies airbows and air rifles as firearms. They should be categorized not by the projectile that shoots out of them, but by the mechanism that propels that projectile, which is a controlled explosion by release of pressure. Otherwise a muzzleloader shooting roundball is a slingshot.
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They're not considered a firearm by the ATF. Neither are muzzle loaders, actually. But, I'm unaware of any state that allows air guns during bow season. Alabama actually has a special air rifle season, and you can use whatever you like during archery season.
 
Thanks to all the chat today, it made for entertaining reading. What category will self-guided arrows shot from a bow or xbow once locked in via laser prior to the shot fall into, or rail and coil guns, or lasers, assuming they get small enough to carry for hunting one day? The reality is modern hunting and its laws have not been around very long and will inevitably be challenged and changed with new technologies as they progress. Maybe in some years to come, ALL weapons we use today will be considered primitive and limited to their own small seasons, and we all will be the ones calling out the new kids shooting their fancy, cheater weapons... To Nick's point, Ishi would have given anything to have a self guided arrow or a rail gun, just saying!
 
I shoot a compound, recurve, longbow, crossbow and an airbow if I had one. I'm an equal opportunity hunter because I believe in the right to do so. If our ancient ancestors had a modern crossbow to hunt with there is no doubt in my mind that's what they'd be shooting. As the animals continue to change and become more adapted to our hunting strategies we need to change as well to keep up with them. We're losing in the numbers game as far as hunters vs. non-hunters go and if a crossbow gets more men, women and children into the sport I'm all for it. As it turns out, we're not hurting the deer population. "Traditional" archery is just as modern as anything else we're shooting without the extra added aids. Unless you're making your own bow, arrows, points, string, hunting in moccasins and a loin cloth the lines are pretty blurred.
 
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