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Nutterbuster Spreads(sheets) It Wide Open

Plebe said:
P&Y entries don't come close to eligible bucks taken, in the region.
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I agree, just talked to my taxidermist. He estimated he mounts between 130-140 bucks each year scoring over 120”. Of those deer he said less than 50 are bow kills. Of those 50 he said almost “no one” registers with P&Y.
 
Nutterbuster said:
Absolutely. You front the license costs and I'll have my people call their people.
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Start a go fund me account and I’ll contribute! I’m sure if you are able to show them up it will be profitable for you!
 
Nutterbuster said:
It's

A

Sample

I feel like I'm in a monty python skit
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So what you’re saying is even if only 10 percent of the eligible bucks get registered and that’s somewhat equal across all areas an area showing a significant increase in registered bucks over he other should have a higher number of trophy deer.

But what if Florida and Vermont just have terrible hunters. They could have all these 200” deer just dying of old age. Or maybe they are just good at keeping secrets.
 
rhagenw said:
Start a go fund me account and I’ll contribute! I’m sure if you are able to show them up it will be profitable for you!
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Showing up THP is next year's goal. Last year was killing a deer or more on public land every weekend i hunted. This years goal is to shoot some big bucks and maybe teach a few people that it's better to be an average hunter on good property than a good hunter on average property. Next year is show up THP to prove a point to some dude on the internet. Year after that is buy a cowboy hat and ride on a space penis for a few minutes.

Don't rush me.
 
kyler1945 said:
Are you gonna fix the ecomony?
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Pope and Young entry fee = $40
@Nutterbuster bucket contest entry (max) = $40

Coincidence? Perhaps.

Here's the choice:

1. Wait 60 days (might as well have ordered a Catalyst Ion) to have your trophy buck measured, so your name can be typed into an online spreadsheet and you can get a paper certificate to match your grade school diploma, with eager anticipation that your name will be later printed in a book that's produced every 6 years, which you'll have to pay for..

or,

Purchase a $5 bucket from a mom n' pop, with a chance to achieve immediate online fame, right here, at saddlehunter.com.

Seems pretty obvious. @Nutterbuster is gonna fix the economy.
 
What everyone should do is break down the buck and overall deer take on a per county basis in their home state, or state they predominantly hunt and see how well or how poor the harvest was in their favorite hunting locations over the last few years. This would be a better indication of how well an area holds deer and then cross reference that data with P&Y entries during the same period.

Using data from 1908 till the present time is somewhat flawed and here's why I say that. It's too long of a time period to be used to accurately predict your odds of encountering a book buck in the present day due to population growth and urban sprawl combined with loss of habitat over the years

Case in point is my home state of NY.

According to Nutter's spreadsheet, the top two counties of Suffolk and Westchester have produced the most P&Y entries with 170 & 144, leading you to believe thems the places ya gotta be hunting, right? Well back in 1908 I'm sure they were great to hunt because the population was nil and those areas were either uninhabited or farm lands. Present day populations in those counties are greater than some states and public land to hunt there is very limited and heavily used. These are areas where most of the "city folk" and weekend warriors go and they live by the motto "If it's brown it's down". Suffolk produces some big racks but most of that is from either private farms or urban deer that Joe public will never have access to the way locals do.

Last season for example Westchester produced 677 bucks and had an overall deer kill of 1,282, Suffolk was 1,861 and 4,525. Now let's drop down to Otsego County which is #32 on the P&Y list with a paltry 13 buck entries. That county produced 3,088 bucks and 6,424 overall. It has much more public land available with less hunters roaming around, it has a much lower population, and the land is better at holding and growing deer. I know I would rather spend all my time in Otsego than either Suffolk or Westchester.

Now look at the biggest deer producing counties...

#13 Steuben County with 52 P&Y entries produced 6,546 bucks and 15,452 total
#11 Chautauqua County with 58 P&Y entries produced 4,164 bucks and 10,894 total
#18 Allegany County with just 42 P&Y entries produced 4,201 bucks and 10,385 total

These have populations between seven to thirty two times less than Westchester and Suffolk which has to have some correlation as to the amount of hunters actually hunting these areas but I haven't found that info yet.

Like Nutter said, his list is a starting point for those looking to improve their game. Nothing is perfect and there's never a guarantee but putting yourself in a good area will certainly raise the odds of that special moment taking place.

Great job Mr. Nutter Buster!
 
Nutterbuster said:
Showing up THP is next year's goal. Last year was killing a deer or more on public land every weekend i hunted. This years goal is to shoot some big bucks and maybe teach a few people that it's better to be an average hunter on good property than a good hunter on average property. Next year is show up THP to prove a point to some dude on the internet. Year after that is buy a cowboy hat and ride on a space penis for a few minutes.

Don't rush me.
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Wow! I come here for saddle hunting and I get space penis talk :tearsofjoy:
 
I love the stats that Nutter put out here and appreciate all his research. I hope it leads him to a real monster this fall.Just don't get all flustered Nutter when you see a deer bigger than 100". Wouldn't want you to fall off your bucket and get hurt :tearsofjoy: But one thing I haven't heard mentioned is hunter success rates which is very low in my state which I believe is due to limited access, ie little public land to hunt and terrain(heavily wooded). In a lot of the mid western states you can just drive the back roads and see at least a handful of big bucks and some of them are 140's and bigger. Maine has a lot more p&y deer than most people think but they aren't visible so people usually shoot the first buck they see not even realizing(or caring) that they have monsters lurking on their hunting grounds. Our hunting success rate is quite low and so is our deer pop. per sq. mile. I believe if more people realized how many big bucks are actually out there then they might put a little more effort in and there would be more big ones in the record books. Maine also as a general rule has traditionally been a "If it's brown it's down" state because most people just want to fill there freezer and couldn't care less about antlers. I heard the expression "You can't eat antlers" about a zillion times growing up here.
 
slonstdy said:
What everyone should do is break down the buck and overall deer take on a per county basis in their home state, or state they predominantly hunt and see how well or how poor the harvest was in their favorite hunting locations over the last few years. This would be a better indication of how well an area holds deer and then cross reference that data with P&Y entries during the same period.

Using data from 1908 till the present time is somewhat flawed and here's why I say that. It's too long of a time period to be used to accurately predict your odds of encountering a book buck in the present day due to population growth and urban sprawl combined with loss of habitat over the years

Case in point is my home state of NY.

According to Nutter's spreadsheet, the top two counties of Suffolk and Westchester have produced the most P&Y entries with 170 & 144, leading you to believe thems the places ya gotta be hunting, right? Well back in 1908 I'm sure they were great to hunt because the population was nil and those areas were either uninhabited or farm lands. Present day populations in those counties are greater than some states and public land to hunt there is very limited and heavily used. These are areas where most of the "city folk" and weekend warriors go and they live by the motto "If it's brown it's down". Suffolk produces some big racks but most of that is from either private farms or urban deer that Joe public will never have access to the way locals do.

Last season for example Westchester produced 677 bucks and had an overall deer kill of 1,282, Suffolk was 1,861 and 4,525. Now let's drop down to Otsego County which is #32 on the P&Y list with a paltry 13 buck entries. That county produced 3,088 bucks and 6,424 overall. It has much more public land available with less hunters roaming around, it has a much lower population, and the land is better at holding and growing deer. I know I would rather spend all my time in Otsego than either Suffolk or Westchester.

Now look at the biggest deer producing counties...

#13 Steuben County with 52 P&Y entries produced 6,546 bucks and 15,452 total
#11 Chautauqua County with 58 P&Y entries produced 4,164 bucks and 10,894 total
#18 Allegany County with just 42 P&Y entries produced 4,201 bucks and 10,385 total

These have populations between seven to thirty two times less than Westchester and Suffolk which has to have some correlation as to the amount of hunters actually hunting these areas but I haven't found that info yet.

Like Nutter said, his list is a starting point for those looking to improve their game. Nothing is perfect and there's never a guarantee but putting yourself in a good area will certainly raise the odds of that special moment taking place.

Great job Mr. Nutter Buster!
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Excellent way of thinking about the data. A few points.

Typically there have been more P&Y entries submitted each year. NY has 1730 typicals on record as a state since 1908. 65% of those have been submitted in the last 20 years. So 65% of the data comes from the most recent 18% of the years.

Specifically, for Suffolk and Westchester counties, 48% and 28% of the data comes from the last 20 years. So you ARE correct in that there is some impact from urbanization in those areas. Quite a bit in Westchester, actually.

But, the reason I took time to include population and square mileage is because I believe that in sprawling woods (my state) you're better to look at density per mile and in urban areas (your state) you're better to look at deer per capita. If you reorganize the spreadsheet trying to find the area with the most deer relative to the county population (and a FYI for anybody who may not know, you can sort the data by any column you please) and take the top third of those results, Otsego, Steuben, Chautauga, and Allegheny Counties all show up as potential good hunting. Suffolk and Westchester fall to the middle third. Far enough down the list I don't think anybody would be tempted to call them a good spot to start looking.

If I was going to drive to New York state with the intent of killing deer, I'd take the top 25/30% of counties as ranked for total P&Y entries, entries/mile, and entries/capita. I'd prioritize entries/capita due to the large human population. Any county that made 2 or especially all 3 of those rankings would be prioritized as well.

I would 100% also bother to include see if the harvest records are recorded, and luckily it seems they are. Into the data soup it goes!

I'd go 1 step further and request the data from the New York State Big Buck Club, which seems to be the local record keeping org. It looks like it's only available in physical form (boo) but I'd email and ask if he had a spreadsheet or at worst pony up $25. Since it's physical and would be a beeyotch to go through and pull the data it's quite possible I'd only use it to narrow down the top 15-20 states. But at this point, I'm getting a pretty dang good feel for New York for an Alabama boy who would be lucky to be able to point at it on a map.

By then I'm hoping to have 5-10 counties isolated out of 63. I'd then take those areas and look at:

  • A light pollution map to identify concentrated human populations
  • Soil map to identify good dirt
  • Aerials of the whole county to identify cities, farm acreage, and big woods
  • If I found substantial ag, I'd pull the USDA crop production maps to see if it was feasibly corn, soybeans, peanuts, or some other high/value whitetail food or junk like a sod plantation
  • the available public land acreage
Once that's been considered I'd assume I'd have a fairly small list of public lands that interested me. They may not be the absolute best, but I'm almost 100% positive that I'd be hunting what any local would acknowledge as at least one of the top-producing areas in the state.

So maybe that's the explanation the naysayers need to hear. Don't just take P&Y numbers and pick a county. Use the data to compare units within a larger region. IE, if travel distance isn't an issue, use it to identify that the midwest is (duh) the place to be. If you're stuck in say, Georgia, but can feasibly hit Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, and S/N Carolina, use it to figure out which state and counties have the best odds of a mature buck sighting. If you're stuck hunting in New York, use it to identify the best place in New York.

As you hone in, the need for more data to make a good decision increases. But for those of us who don't have a taxidermist in New York, the data can be found in a matter of say, 3 or 4 beers on a Saturday?
 
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@Nutterbuster
I want to recommend that you format your excel sheet into a table. This will give everyone the ability to easily sort the data in a way that is meaningful and useful to them. Secondly, my personal preference is to recommend you change the horrendous shading that your have on the sheets below. I now have glaucoma after looking at them. It is so painful to look at.

So in your other thread you talked about trophy hunting this year instead of just regular deer killing the first thing that gives you a shot. Is your goal to try and kill a P&Y Deer this year or simply use the data on above average deer to pinpoint areas with quantities of bigger dead. Are you getting a new compound?
D91204DD-C4D8-4C40-9207-A910AE2058A3.png
 
gcr0003 said:
@Nutterbuster
I want to recommend that you format your excel sheet into a table. This will give everyone the ability to easily sort the data in a way that is meaningful and useful to them. Secondly, my personal preference is to recommend you change the horrendous shading that your have on the sheets below. I now have glaucoma after looking at them. It is so painful to look at.

So in your other thread you talked about trophy hunting this year instead of just regular deer killing the first thing that gives you a shot. Is your goal to try and kill a P&Y Deer this year or simply use the data on above average deer to pinpoint areas with quantities of bigger dead. Are you getting a new compound?
View attachment 50543
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I'm sorry you don't like your free data. :(

The more I dig into things, the more I think my goal for this year is 3 bucks scoring somewhere between 100 and 120 inches. At that range they should be 3.5 to 4.5 years old and through growing 80-100% of their antler mass. At least in the areas I'm hunting. If I was in your neck of the woods I might bump that up 10".
 
Nutterbuster said:
I'm sorry you don't like your free data. :(

The more I dig into things, the more I think my goal for this year is 3 bucks scoring somewhere between 100 and 120 inches. At that range they should be 3.5 to 4.5 years old and through growing 80-100% of their antler mass. At least in the areas I'm hunting. If I was in your neck of the woods I might bump that up 10".
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Oh, quit being such a baby. I didn't say anything about the data, I only commented on how you have it presented.
My goal for this year is bigger than the 4pt I killed last year. Oh, and I am going to try and get it done with a recurve. Are you banking on getting into another SOA hunt? What would have that 8pt you killed from the ground last year scored? I haven't killed enough bucks or been hunting long enough to estimate scores just by looking at antlers.
 
gcr0003 said:
Oh, quit being such a baby. I didn't say anything about the data, I only commented on how you have it presented.
My goal for this year is bigger than the 4pt I killed last year. Oh, and I am going to try and get it done with a recurve. Are you banking on getting into another SOA hunt? What would have that 8pt you killed from the ground last year scored? I haven't killed enough bucks or been hunting long enough to estimate scores just by looking at antlers.
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I'm being facetious. But, the excel spreadsheets are here, free of charge, and anybody who likes can do whatever they want with them. I get by fine just sorting columns. Yall wanna be spoonfed...

;)

Ole one-eye grossed about 110 best as I could tape him. His net score is likely 100 or less because his left side is wonky due to his injury.

I will do everything in my power to make it back to the SOA for a hunt but am not banking on it. I have a few spots around Barbour, Okmulgee, David K, and your neck of the woods that I believe have good potential based on past results. 1 spot in Baldwin County may cough up a 100" deer. It has before.

I've got a lot of property that looks good by the numbers but I'm yet to scout it. I've been looking the past 3 weekends and will try to keep doing so til February 11th or tagged out.
 
Can't edit someone else's sheet, but if anyone interested in hunting Better Carolina wants more data, the Wildlife Resources Commission has deer density by county here: https://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/Hunting/Documents/Deer/2020_Deer_Density_Maps.pdf, and harvest by county, by game land, per hunter, per hunter by county, by huntable day, and a wide variety of other data here: https://www.ncwildlife.org/Hunting/...-Statistics/White-tailed-Deer-Harvest-Reports.

All ya need to plan yer out-of-state hunt in Cackalacky! Might not have trophies, but we got better music and barbecue to occupy your evenings than anywheres else. Gotta buy me a beer though.
 
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