On the fly vs Preset stand locations

[Stykbow1]

Hey Guys,

I'm just curious why if in an area where it's legal that some people prefer not to have preset stand locations? I understand that some states don't allow setting equipment up prior to the season and in that case I realize it's not your choice but in areas that do allow it why some choose not use this method? After watching John Eberhart's DVD series on bowhunting pressured whitetails I really liked the idea of having preset locations ready to hunt. One of the reasons I was so excited about using and hunting with the Aero Hunter was being able to have locations preset but still have almost no footprint at those locations to tip other hunters off to my hunting spots. So what are the reasons others like the climbing sticks, spikes, or setting up on the fly at their hunting spots as opposed to a preset with tree steps, pegs, or a climbing stick.

Thanks,

Roger

 

[redsquirrel]

Roger,

To me the advantage of on the fly is the lack of equipment needed to hunt multiple spots. I have hunted basically as John describes and I have around 40 trees setup with screw in steps throughout the state. I love hunting my pre-set stands because I walk in and climb and I'm ready. The advantage of having that many spots is I don't have to hunt the same spot over and over and I can move around.

The disadvantage is that I probably have over 1000 tree steps in the woods. I always buy them on sale but the cost adds up over time. I am hoping that utilizing the climbing rope I can continue to set up preset spots, but instead of having 25-30 steps in a tree, I can now use 5-6 just to setup the platform. I could do the same thing with climbing sticks but would have to deal with the bulk that comes with them. So I am going for kinda a hybrid method.

So anyways, to summarize, on the fly- never hunt the same spot twice and less equipment than preset locations.

 

[g2outdoors]

I use both styles. I always like to have 4 or 5 preset trees that I can get in easily after work or for a quick morning hunt. I also love to go for a walk with sticks on my back to check out a new area. When I find hot sign or a real bucky looking area, I'll setup and hunt.

I hunt almost exclusively on public land and I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving a bunch of expensive stands out all season long. They'll get stolen. But my climbing sticks and ladders from Sportsman's Guide are cheap enough where it won't break the bank if a crook comes along and rips me off. If I hunted on private land, I'd have way more preset spots because I'd use screw in steps. They are outlawed where I hunt.

 

[swampsnyper]

Can't damage a tree where I hunt, nothing screwed in or cut off. Every hunt is on the fly. I always used a lone wolf assault and 3-4 lone wolf sticks. With the evolution this year I get to drop the 11 lbs of the stand and still use my sticks. I thought about using strap on steps but with the lone wolf sticks I only strap one strap for every 3 steps. If ameristeps were cheaper I would think of giving it a try.

 

[Stykbow1]

Thanks guys,

I like the presets because I can just walk in and climb up and be hunting and using the drill and peg method I can have multiple stand locations with a minimal amount of equipment. I also like the idea of setting up in the spring as JE suggest and then just leaving the area alone or undisturbed until the season opens. I realize for some hunters this isn't an option but after doing both, I have hunted in areas you can't use steps like the Delaware Water Gap area, and used climbers and climbing sticks on the fly in those areas, I'll take the preset every time.

Thanks,

Roger

 

[redsquirrel]

Thanks guys,

I like the presets because I can just walk in and climb up and be hunting and using the drill and peg method I can have multiple stand locations with a minimal amount of equipment. I also like the idea of setting up in the spring as JE suggest and then just leaving the area alone or undisturbed until the season opens. I realize for some hunters this isn't an option but after doing both, I have hunted in areas you can't use steps like the Delaware Water Gap area, and used climbers and climbing sticks on the fly in those areas, I'll take the preset every time.

Thanks,

Roger

Just because you don't have the tree preset with steps, doesn't mean you can't still pick it out and have it prepped to hunt in the fall! Just saying!

 

[jhicks54]

On public land, I hate leaving anything to give away my spot. The most I might do is leave a platform of screw in steps and a bow hook.

 

[bioguy]

I hunt public land exclusively, and I don't like leaving anything in the woods that will get stolen or be discovered by another hunter. The only thing I leave behind are footprints, and I even take care not to leave many of those.

 

[Stykbow1]

Thanks guys,

I like the presets because I can just walk in and climb up and be hunting and using the drill and peg method I can have multiple stand locations with a minimal amount of equipment. I also like the idea of setting up in the spring as JE suggest and then just leaving the area alone or undisturbed until the season opens. I realize for some hunters this isn't an option but after doing both, I have hunted in areas you can't use steps like the Delaware Water Gap area, and used climbers and climbing sticks on the fly in those areas, I'll take the preset every time.

Thanks,

Roger

Just because you don't have the tree preset with steps, doesn't mean you can't still pick it out and have it prepped to hunt in the fall! Just saying!

Red I know that but if possible I prefer to do it well before the season if possible but in a pinch I will setup a spot anytime I have the opportunity to do so but I like to have things done ahead of time if possible.

Roger

 

[Stykbow1]

JHicks & Bioguy I agree with you 100% about public land which is why I like the drill and peg system, if they want my tree steps that I use for the platform their going to have to climb up twenty plus feet to get them. I'm trying to find the perfect portable platform and so far not having much luck so if they grab a couple of tree steps I'm not too upset.

Roger,

 

[g2outdoors]

JHicks & Bioguy I agree with you 100% about public land which is why I like the drill and peg system, if they want my tree steps that I use for the platform their going to have to climb up twenty plus feet to get them. I'm trying to find the perfect portable platform and so far not having much luck so if they grab a couple of tree steps I'm not too upset.

The holy grail of Saddle hunting is the 3 P's - perfect portable platform. An Ameristep/ratchet strap combo is the best I've found so far, but the ratchet strap is loud and cumbersome. Maybe using the Over Center Buckle would solve the noise problem, but you still have to fiddle with getting the steps spaced evenly around the tree and the strap tight enough. With the ratchet strap you'll have a rock solid platform but the fiddle and noise factors are annoying.

Screw in steps are a good option. However, they take a while to install and for a lot of us they're illegal to use.

Stepp Ladders work decently enough, but they can fail under side pressure. They are cumbersome to carry and install as well.

I'd gladly pay $100 for the 3 P's.

 

[bioguy]

JHicks & Bioguy I agree with you 100% about public land which is why I like the drill and peg system, if they want my tree steps that I use for the platform their going to have to climb up twenty plus feet to get them. I'm trying to find the perfect portable platform and so far not having much luck so if they grab a couple of tree steps I'm not too upset.

Roger,

I would probably use that system if it were legal to drill into a tree on the public lands I hunt, but it's not and from my experience most public lands that I have encountered do not allow inserting any metal object into a tree. Climbers, strap-on steps, etc. are all good, but no screw-in devices or predrilled holes are allowed.

I'm in search of a good climbing system/platform as well. Hopefully I have found a good solution (lone wolf sticks w/ Ameristep platform), but I'm waiting on my Evo to arrive.

 

[Stykbow1]

JHicks & Bioguy I agree with you 100% about public land which is why I like the drill and peg system, if they want my tree steps that I use for the platform their going to have to climb up twenty plus feet to get them. I'm trying to find the perfect portable platform and so far not having much luck so if they grab a couple of tree steps I'm not too upset.

The holy grail of Saddle hunting is the 3 P's - perfect portable platform. An Ameristep/ratchet strap combo is the best I've found so far, but the ratchet strap is loud and cumbersome. Maybe using the Over Center Buckle would solve the noise problem, but you still have to fiddle with getting the steps spaced evenly around the tree and the strap tight enough. With the ratchet strap you'll have a rock solid platform but the fiddle and noise factors are annoying.

Screw in steps are a good option. However, they take a while to install and for a lot of us they're illegal to use.

Stepp Ladders work decently enough, but they can fail under side pressure. They are cumbersome to carry and install as well.

I'd gladly pay $100 for the 3 P's.

G2Outdoors,

Amen to that brother I think all of us would gladly pay a premium for a 3P platform and that seems to be the Achilles heel to the saddle hunting system. I also agree while not perfect in any way shape or form the Amersteps on a strap may be the only viable choice for a lot of guys. I contacted Wedge-Loc tree stand company because they have a ground seat that uses their tree strap, plus it doesn't damage the tree and according to them is legal in most states, and with a couple of modifications would make an excellent platform. I'm lucky that in most of the places in my home state of NJ I can use the drill and peg system otherwise I would be heavily considering the rope method of climbing or something else.



Roger,

 

[Stykbow1]

JHicks & Bioguy I agree with you 100% about public land which is why I like the drill and peg system, if they want my tree steps that I use for the platform their going to have to climb up twenty plus feet to get them. I'm trying to find the perfect portable platform and so far not having much luck so if they grab a couple of tree steps I'm not too upset.

Roger,

I would probably use that system if it were legal to drill into a tree on the public lands I hunt, but it's not and from my experience most public lands that I have encountered do not allow inserting any metal object into a tree. Climbers, strap-on steps, etc. are all good, but no screw-in devices or predrilled holes are allowed.

I'm in search of a good climbing system/platform as well. Hopefully I have found a good solution (lone wolf sticks w/ Ameristep platform), but I'm waiting on my Evo to arrive.

Bioguy,

I haven't checked but I think I would have to agree with you that the majority of states would not permit drilling into trees, I'm assuming they would consider that damaging them, and therefore it wouldn't be legal. That aside I like the drill and peg system because you can have an unlimited number of trees set up to climb and with a limited number of pegs and nothing left behind for anyone to steal or reveal your hunting spot. I also think it's much easier to carry a handful of pegs than climbing sticks or strap on steps. Now I realize for many that is not a viable option, like yourself, but I was trying to gain insight of the thought process of those that can but choose not too and why?

I've read many times in many hunting articles, books, and magazines the first time you hunt a stand is the best and from there the odds go down the more you hunt that location. From that perspective I can understand a hunter that decides he's not going to hunt the same tree twice and therefore lets the wind and conditions dictate what tree he's going to hunt from in a particular area. In this situation you could go around and set up a ton of presets but for some it may be just as easy to carry a couple of climbing sticks or in the case of the rope climbing guys their climbing gear and do it on the fly. In my situations things have always gone smoother if I have things done ahead of time than on the fly, I always seem to forget something or have Murphy messing with me, and the hunt doesn't go as planned.

So other than equipment restrictions what would be your primary motivation for choosing one method over the other and if you had the option to do both how often do you think you'd choose on the fly vs preset? I realize there are a ton of variables but I'm sure that most hunters have a few rules of thumb that they follow to decide what they feel is the best option for a given hunting area. I'm just curious to see if both of us had the same options to access our hunting spot if we would come to the same conclusion on how to access it and why. Or as is the case many times disagree on how to access it but agree on why we'd hunt the area or where we would hunt from.

Roger,

 

[g2outdoors]

G2Outdoors,

Amen to that brother I think all of us would gladly pay a premium for a 3P platform and that seems to be the Achilles heel to the saddle hunting system. I also agree while not perfect in any way shape or form the Amersteps on a strap may be the only viable choice for a lot of guys. I contacted Wedge-Loc tree stand company because they have a ground seat that uses their tree strap, plus it doesn't damage the tree and according to them is legal in most states, and with a couple of modifications would make an excellent platform. I'm lucky that in most of the places in my home state of NJ I can use the drill and peg system otherwise I would be heavily considering the rope method of climbing or something else.

I have a Chippewa Wedge-Loc treestand. It's definitely pretty solid. The "bracket" system is kind of loud and cumbersome with the chain. I could see how it work well as a platform.

 

[bioguy]

"So other than equipment restrictions what would be your primary motivation for choosing one method over the other and if you had the option to do both how often do you think you'd choose on the fly vs preset? I realize there are a ton of variables but I'm sure that most hunters have a few rules of thumb that they follow to decide what they feel is the best option for a given hunting area. I'm just curious to see if both of us had the same options to access our hunting spot if we would come to the same conclusion on how to access it and why. Or as is the case many times disagree on how to access it but agree on why we'd hunt the area or where we would hunt from."

Equipment restrictions are pretty much the only reason I don't do presets. If I had my own property, at a minimum I would probably preset all of my "honey hole" stands, stands that require a long hike, and my observation stands. I wouldn't want to preset every tree I plan on hunting because there are some spots I hunt so infrequently it's just not worth damaging the tree to only hunt once a season, if at all.

 

[Stykbow1]

G2Outdoors,

Amen to that brother I think all of us would gladly pay a premium for a 3P platform and that seems to be the Achilles heel to the saddle hunting system. I also agree while not perfect in any way shape or form the Amersteps on a strap may be the only viable choice for a lot of guys. I contacted Wedge-Loc tree stand company because they have a ground seat that uses their tree strap, plus it doesn't damage the tree and according to them is legal in most states, and with a couple of modifications would make an excellent platform. I'm lucky that in most of the places in my home state of NJ I can use the drill and peg system otherwise I would be heavily considering the rope method of climbing or something else.

I have a Chippewa Wedge-Loc treestand. It's definitely pretty solid. The "bracket" system is kind of loud and cumbersome with the chain. I could see how it work well as a platform.

G2 you are absolutely right the chain is noisy, not something I would try to use in a spot that the animals might be bedded close by that's for sure, but it does offer the ease of throwing a lock on it and leaving it locked in a tree. I don't know if you have one of the straps but they work really well and are a lot quieter than the chain especially if you take your time and are careful. I'm still looking for that ultimate portable platform though and Chippewa Wedge-Loc never got back to me after out initial conversation about it. I'm hoping the might change their minds and build one for me. Or if that doesn't pan out I have a local CNC machinist I plan on contacting and see what they can do.

Roger,

 

[Stykbow1]

"So other than equipment restrictions what would be your primary motivation for choosing one method over the other and if you had the option to do both how often do you think you'd choose on the fly vs preset? I realize there are a ton of variables but I'm sure that most hunters have a few rules of thumb that they follow to decide what they feel is the best option for a given hunting area. I'm just curious to see if both of us had the same options to access our hunting spot if we would come to the same conclusion on how to access it and why. Or as is the case many times disagree on how to access it but agree on why we'd hunt the area or where we would hunt from."

Equipment restrictions are pretty much the only reason I don't do presets. If I had my own property, at a minimum I would probably preset all of my "honey hole" stands, stands that require a long hike, and my observation stands. I wouldn't want to preset every tree I plan on hunting because there are some spots I hunt so infrequently it's just not worth damaging the tree to only hunt once a season, if at all.

Bioguy,

I understand why possibly hurt the tree if you don't have to, that makes perfect sense and is good stewardship of our forests, besides in a pinch you could fall back on one of the other methods if you had too. The dilemma I have is a couple of the areas I hunt I'm limited to one and possibly two locations on the property at the most due to obeying the safety zone laws. So in my case I would be prepping two trees at the most in three locations that I hunt. All three areas are close to homes and while there are plenty of deer the big boys keep showing up right after last shooting light which can be very frustrating because if I could move 80 or 100 yards it would make all the difference in the world. Thanks for your input I appreciate it.

Good Hunting,

 

[kenn1320]

Im pretty sure I tried a wedgeloc stand and took it back the next day. Had 2 red balls on a chain and the stand hooked between them. Up/down it was solid, but wiggle left/right it was not. Because the chain never got tight, the stand had play. That being said, I don't think it would work well for side loading like we do with a saddle.
Check your laws about public land. Michigan doesn't allow any climbing device to penetrate the tree, but stipulates a T screw from a tree stand manufacturer is allowed it be used on the stand. See my platform in the DIY, it is solid.

That aside, I like pre set sights on private land. If you show up and the sign looks good, your up and hunting quickly and quietly and you know the tree works. Vie climbed what looked verticle and straight on the ground, only to find it was a leaner at hunting height.

 

[Stykbow1]

Im pretty sure I tried a wedgeloc stand and took it back the next day. Had 2 red balls on a chain and the stand hooked between them. Up/down it was solid, but wiggle left/right it was not. Because the chain never got tight, the stand had play. That being said, I don't think it would work well for side loading like we do with a saddle.
Check your laws about public land. Michigan doesn't allow any climbing device to penetrate the tree, but stipulates a T screw from a tree stand manufacturer is allowed it be used on the stand. See my platform in the DIY, it is solid.

That aside, I like pre set sights on private land. If you show up and the sign looks good, your up and hunting quickly and quietly and you know the tree works. Vie climbed what looked verticle and straight on the ground, only to find it was a leaner at hunting height.

Hi Ken,

That might have been a knock off or copy the Wedge Loc use black neoprene disks on each side, they had some issues a couple of years back with people trying to copy their system. As far as I know their stand is legal in most states because it doesn't cut into the tree. Also the real Wedge Loc was extremely stable on the sides and the reason I bought it was because a fellow bowhunter I knew who's 6' 2" and over 300 pounds said it was the only stand he truly trusted. I've never had any issues even standing on the edge of the stand which is what made me think of their ground seat for a portable platform. I will check out your platform in the DIY section as well thanks!

Good Hunting,

Roger