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PSA: How I fell from 30ft and still celebrated the 4th!

donnieballgame said:
Ok, so no one reads my post, lol
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Who dis?

I kid I kid...

So actually I ultimately agree that the prusik should be above and whats more the ascender itself seems to act as a tender so that is nice.

I think switching to thicker rope for me will be all around better. Better grips, the ascender should grab it better and the prusik will bite better.

I appreciate everyone’s input!
 
donnieballgame said:
I think tying off the end is a good practice, best practice? Not sure. If I was going to backup my ropeman with a prusik, I think you should put it above. In the chance that you slip on the ropeman, the prusik could get into the ropeman device and you could be SOL. If the prusik is above the ropeman the worst thing that can happen is a little more hassle in moving up the rope, put a tender on there and you would be in good shape, methinks!

Update, I've only had my ropeman slip when the little cable got pulled up into between the cam and the rope, and even then it was a very minor slip as I was XOP hand climbing and I always sit on the tether to tighten it on the tree then cinch up the ropeman a little more to get max height out of each move. Has anyone else had any ropeman slips?
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Thanks! Would you put a prusik above ropeman on your linesman belt as well? Where would you make your attachment to the saddle? What is a tender?
 
I think a prusik above the ascender, with the end figured on a bite or spliced end and attached to caribener onto bridge for tether or D loop for linesman.

I have been using a distel hitch with a pulley on my lineman’s. I ease into the knot as it the knot slipped once initially.

I bought shizll rope slider, now I am rethinking that perhaps especially on the tether to just use the ropeman with a prusik above. That way you have two locking mechanisms.


Darn stuff is getting expensive.


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I alternate between a Ropeman 1 or a Madrock Safeguard depending on the length of the tether I'm using (planning on rappelling or not). Either way I tie off a slip knot directly under my mechanical device and run the loop of the knot through my bridge carabiner. That puts the stopper knot only a inch or so below the friction device. That way the most I can slip is about an inch if the friction device doesn't grab for any reason.
 
I might mess around with a pruisk above my ropeman on my tether as well, while XOP hand climbing everyone seems to worry that I'll get a little slack and cut the rope with my ropeman, but I'm not all that sure a prusik above would work if the rope actually got cut. We'll see how much hassle it is, with the tender it might work out.
 
Dragsmack said:
Thanks! Would you put a prusik above ropeman on your linesman belt as well? Where would you make your attachment to the saddle? What is a tender?
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You certainly could, I'm not sure I would bother, depends if the tender worked well it might not be that much trouble, I've never tried it so I'm not sure it's worth it. I don't think anyone is really doing that on their lineman belt. Hopefully someone else can chime in.
 
I think I may be missing something, or 2 or 3 things..... why would we be concerned about backing up the ropeman with a prusik on the tether but not on the linemans belt? Wouldnt a failure there while leaning back be just as dangerous?

If we put a prusik above the ropeman with a caribiner how do we introduce slack in the system so the ropeman caribiner is dictating tension, not the prusik above it? Does that makes sense?
 
Glad your ok and a good read as I use this system more than anything else. You are absolutely correct in it could have been worse. I am currently using a stopper knot as were you because I wanted another few inches of tether. I did have a figure 8 knot clipped off to tether biner. I fell 7 years ago from a summit open shot. Passed out from heat fell face first 15’ landed I think left hand outstretched as my left wrist was broken left eye socket crushed and upper front teeth Bridge busted to the tune of $8000. I also built roofs when I was younger and fell off two one story roofs and two two story roofs. Got lucky on all those and just went back to work. I am not the safest person out there but try to pay attention when climbing but slip often and even did in the video on the pole that day at Saddlepalooza. I feel like the gear I’m using is much safer than any other system I have used up until now. But I am climbing trees and accident’s can and will happen. I’ve used the Kong Duck and the ropeman 1 and see very little difference other than the Duck tends smaller rope that I prefer to use. It for sure would be better to back it up with backup of some sort. I might try one to see how it works. But bottom line is even with the best gear you still have to pay attention to the details while your in the tree. I hunt most of the time by my self and there would be little chance of being found if something bad happened. I hang on the tether almost every time I’m climbing and usually multiple times. I have had more close calls with sticks than the climber seat. On one note in the slip he mentioned parting the paracord. The line from seat to tether biner. Mine is 1/4” braided nylon. Not sure the strength but don’t think I can break it. He also mentioned carrying an aider that I only recently started doing and think is a great idea. I really worry more about getting killed in my truck going hunting than being in the woods and climbing trees. So whatever methods you use when in the woods climbing trees just pay attention to the best of you abilities and chances are your going home safe. I’m convinced we use the safest means out there.


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Dragsmack said:
I think I may be missing something, or 2 or 3 things..... why would we be concerned about backing up the ropeman with a prusik on the tether but not on the linemans belt? Wouldnt a failure there while leaning back be just as dangerous?

If we put a prusik above the ropeman with a caribiner how do we introduce slack in the system so the ropeman caribiner is dictating tension, not the prusik above it? Does that makes sense?
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On your lineman’s belt your leaning and it doesn’t see the pressure that you put on the tether when climbing. All your weight goes on the tether very little on lineman’s belt. But if it makes you feel more confident in climbing by all means back it up with a knot.


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Dragsmack said:
I think I may be missing something, or 2 or 3 things..... why would we be concerned about backing up the ropeman with a prusik on the tether but not on the linemans belt? Wouldnt a failure there while leaning back be just as dangerous?

If we put a prusik above the ropeman with a caribiner how do we introduce slack in the system so the ropeman caribiner is dictating tension, not the prusik above it? Does that makes sense?
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I honestly can't see myself doing any of these back up measures on my ropemans. Tag to the biner is fine but if I need to double up, I should reconsider my equipment choice. Does anyone double up a prussic with a prussic?


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BassBoysLLP said:
I honestly can't see myself doing any of these back up measures on my ropemans. Tag to the biner is fine but if I need to double up, I should reconsider my equipment choice. Does anyone double up a prussic with a prussic?


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Fair point. I wonder what the chance of a ropeman failure truly is. I want to be safe, but not paranoid for unjustified reasons...
 
BassBoysLLP said:
I honestly can't see myself doing any of these back up measures on my ropemans. Tag to the biner is fine but if I need to double up, I should reconsider my equipment choice. Does anyone double up a prussic with a prussic?


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I’m with you. Its kinda like wearing a life jacket in a boat. Is it safer yes am I gona wear one no.


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BassBoysLLP said:
I honestly can't see myself doing any of these back up measures on my ropemans. Tag to the biner is fine but if I need to double up, I should reconsider my equipment choice. Does anyone double up a prussic with a prussic?


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https://treetools.co.nz/_blog/Blog/post/Ropeman-Kong_Duck_Comparison/

I think nothing probably needs to be backed up if we're just leaning/hanging. If you're using a ropeman and fall with slack in the line and it cuts the Rope where would your backup be? It makes sense, whether it just slid down the Rope, or cut it, that you would have backup above the ropeman. If the backup is not above the ropeman connection point to the tether and the Rope is cut there would be no point in having a backup. Personally I think weather you backup a mechanical ascender with a friction hitch is a personal choice, but to not do it properly is just a false sense of security. It would be the same as tying off two separate lanyards to the same piece of conduit in a pipe rack.

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True, but if you are climbing a way that creates the kN of force to cut a rope with an ascender, perhaps you should reconsider either 1.) Your climbing method. 2.) Your equipment of choice. If the fall factor is real, perhaps you should consider a dynamic rope rig rather than the static rope system in place. I like redundancy for human error or anchors but I struggle seeing the value here.
denots said:
https://treetools.co.nz/_blog/Blog/post/Ropeman-Kong_Duck_Comparison/

I think nothing probably needs to be backed up if we're just leaning/hanging. If you're using a ropeman and fall with slack in the line and it cuts the Rope where would your backup be? It makes sense, whether it just slid down the Rope, or cut it, that you would have backup above the ropeman. If the backup is not above the ropeman connection point to the tether and the Rope is cut there would be no point in having a backup. Personally I think weather you backup a mechanical ascender with a friction hitch is a personal choice, but to not do it properly is just a false sense of security. It would be the same as tying off two separate lanyards to the same piece of conduit in a pipe rack.

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Also, the ropeman wasn't rated when that article was put our 8 years ago. The design has changed. The latest ropemans are rated at 15 kN for the spec rope diameter range (10-13mm).

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BassBoysLLP said:
True, but if you are climbing a way that creates the kN of force to cut a rope with an ascender, perhaps you should reconsider either 1.) Your climbing method. 2.) Your equipment of choice. If the fall factor is real, perhaps you should consider a dynamic rope rig rather than the static rope system in place. I like redundancy for human error or anchors but I struggle seeing the value here.

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I agree that none of us should really ever take a fall if we're climbing/hunting correctly. I was really more or less just trying to give some information I ran across about differences between the two ascenders (Kong duck and ropeman). Also I was just trying to point out that if somebody is truly concerned about the failure of their equipment and they're going to use a backup system the backup system should at least be correct. If it's not, what's really the point. Me personally I'm kind of in the same boat is @bongo. Is it safer to wear a lifejacket, yes. Am I going to, no. Sorry if quoting you was misconstrued as me saying you were doing something wrong. That was not the intent. Also in the article it says that the Rope can be cut with as little as 4 kN of force. You're probably way smarter than me, but I don't believe it would take much of a fall to generate that sort of force. I also think that more guys switching to a platform instead of a ring of steps could possibly create a situation where this sort of fall, or slack in one's tether could be created more frequently. Maybe the Ropeman 2, or kong duck is a better choice for what we do just in case. Backing the system up with an additional friction hitch, IMO, would just be one's personal choice.

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