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Spikes, Bolts, and Screw in Steps

Should Spikes, Bolts, and Screw in steps be made legal on public land?

  • Total voters
    62
woodsdog2 said:
You know that’s a great question. I just picked up some of the premium cranford folding rope steps. I always thought they were kind of a joke and didn’t work well and the ropes were flimsy and they just weren’t something that I felt was worthwhile as a practical matter. I’ll have to say though, my assumptions were way off base. So far I’m pretty impressed with them. I picked up two four packs. From a cost benefit analysis they cost me a $100 with the ropes that work like a daisy chain or a chinese finger trap and they actually are very easy to climb with and once set, very sturdy and quiet on the tree. I’ve been watching some videos on using these with climb rsted daisy chain webbing straps to use as an aider or a five step etreir’ with a biner hooked over the step as you advance. Super packable lightweight “high speed low drag” system for those times you just don’t want to have a lot of volume of stuff. With a ROS or a pursuit platform, worse case scenario you’re out < $200. Anyway, check them out:
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The whoopie attachment they provide only fits a very limited diameter of tree. I’d imagine a truckers hitch type of attachment mod could work well for them. The whole aider concept definitely ain’t for me, I tried it briefly and my foot slipped off the tree right when I was pushing up on the aider. I ended up doing a wild Chuck Norris kick around the tree before I caught my self. I really don’t like any aider at all.
 
I voted indifferent, same as I would for a vote on cutting a branch or raising the interstate speed limit by 5mph. I'd do it anyway knowing full well there could be penalties if I get caught. Don't take away my little bit of "rebel without a cause" activities.
 
It’s not so much if the tree will live or die rather will the logger cutting down a tree decades later live or die if his or her chain saw explodes when hitting a screw in step that the tree grew into.
 
Noonespecial said:
It’s not so much if the tree will live or die rather will the logger cutting down a tree decades later live or die if his or her chain saw explodes when hitting a screw in step that the tree grew into.
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The one study I found showed from 09-13, 60% of chainsaw injuries occurred at persons home.

No deaths were recorded.

Deaths are extremely rare.

4% of injuries required hospitalization.

There is not a breakdown of injuries caused by improper use, and injuries caused by “metal in tree”.

My guess is, that the number of “metal in tree” and “not in persons yard” is so small, as to not be measurable. But I could be wrong.


Can anyone point to a death caused by chainsaw, amputation caused by chainsaw, or severe injury by chainsaw requiring hospitalization, that it was determined to be due to metal in tree?
 
kyler1945 said:
The one study I found showed from 09-13, 60% of chainsaw injuries occurred at persons home.

No deaths were recorded.

Deaths are extremely rare.

4% of injuries required hospitalization.

There is not a breakdown of injuries caused by improper use, and injuries caused by “metal in tree”.

My guess is, that the number of “metal in tree” and “not in persons yard” is so small, as to not be measurable. But I could be wrong.


Can anyone point to a death caused by chainsaw, amputation caused by chainsaw, or severe injury by chainsaw requiring hospitalization, that it was determined to be due to metal in tree?
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Sawmill accident reports on OSHA.


I got through page one and determined “saw blade coming loose/breaking/etc due to metal in wood kills or maims operator” wasn’t common. Currently going all the way to hopefully find one!
 
kyler1945 said:
Sawmill accident reports on OSHA.


I got through page one and determined “saw blade coming loose/breaking/etc due to metal in wood kills or maims operator” wasn’t common. Currently going all the way to hopefully find one!
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Looks like 1 in 30 or so accidents is “board kicks back hitting operator. Let’s assume a generous 10% of those is due to foreign object in the wood. I would bet it’s less, but the internet reports don’t give that detail. The wording screams operator error.

I only saw one death.

It would be great if we had OSHA investigator, or folks with significant sawmill experience to chime in.



But, upshot is almost no one ever dies from chainsaw accidents and sawmill accidents. And almost none of those people are due to metal in wood.

I just can’t see operator safety being a large enough issue to even be considered here. If the current amount of people dying is enough of an Issue for us to modify our behavior, then we have a whole new can of worms to discuss.
 
Again,

Not leaving things in the woods for 24 hours makes this a moot point.

I just can’t see people getting hurt or dying due to metal in tree as an issue worth including jn this conversation.

And if it is, it’s so small as to be easily mitigated by engineering controls and a small amount of money.

That leaves timber value reduction, and tree health.

Again, both easily quantifiable, and can be taxed out of being an issue.
 
kyler1945 said:
You might read the whole article.

A couple points to consider:

1987

Intentions matter in regards to crime and punishment.
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I was just sharing the link to show why some people have the stance of "metal in tree equal bad". I'm indifferent on this subject and could care less if people use bolts or screw ins on public land
 
rhagenw said:
I was just sharing the link to show why some people have the stance of "metal in tree equal bad". I'm indifferent on this subject and could care less if people use bolts or screw ins on public land
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I’m with you!

From what I can gather, it’s articles like that, and our inability to deal with big numbers, that lead people to “metal in tree equal bad”.
 
My paying for metal that someone else put in trees is bad. There are plenty of alternatives, but steps and ONLY steps will do the trick for some of us. It's not even step-lovers tree. But let's sign everyone up to pay for the harm I may or may not have done
 
kyler1945 said:
I’m with you!

From what I can gather, it’s articles like that, and our inability to deal with big numbers, that lead people to “metal in tree equal bad”.
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Truth be told, most public land will never be logged. At least in the Midwest. I worked for a tree trimming company cutting trees by power lines. We would cut up to 100 of trees per person when we wasn't in the air. Chainsaw chains flying apart is extremely rare and rather uneventful.
 
Maybe we should poll if people are willing to pay more to use steps, bolts and gaffs
 
rhagenw said:
Truth be told, most public land will never be logged. At least in the Midwest. I worked for a tree trimming company cutting trees by power lines. We would cut up to 100 of trees per person when we wasn't in the air. Chainsaw chains flying apart is extremely rare and rather uneventful.
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We have a saying where I hunt, Dont get to liking a spot cause if you do they will cut it before next season. I have zero problem with cutting timber, big fan actually. But there is room for significant improvement in how our stuff gets cut, imo.
 
Horn said:
Maybe we should poll if people are willing to pay more to use steps, bolts and gaffs
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I think it’s a great idea.

This is what started the whole discussion anyway!

Money spent trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist when using spurs and bolts and screw ins, can be spent mitigating the use of spurs and bolts and screw ins.
 
I voted indifferent. I'm a landowner. I've also hunted public land. I put bolts in trees. I kill trees regularly on purpose. Some trees are extremely hard to kill. I know of one tree where I still have spikes in that have been there over 35 years.

But, imagine a world where bolts were legal on public land. Using bolts on public would make it easy, quick, light, and cheap for lots of people to go around and bolt trees. Then imagine the state opening an area to bids for logging. (Yes, there are places that allow logging on WMA's.) Those timber buyers know people have been all through there bolting trees that will devalue them. That will have an effect on buyers and their bids and the revenue it brings in.
 
I voted indifferent. But not so much for the sake of filling a tree with holes. I think screw in steps would be ok because they don’t really go all that deep BUT they should be removed each use or by seasons end. I use bolts on all of my private land trees with the exception of a few but the big thing is screw in hangers I think they should reword their laws and allow screw in hangers. It’s especially nice for guys who sit the same tree frequent. It makes setup quick quiet and easy in the dark and it’s a real nice guideline to know you’re always at the same spot in that tree. I’m a legal beagle in terms of following hunting rules. We’re already frowned upon by the majority as hunters so putting holes in trees is just that much more leverage for the tree huggers. As of now I stick a bright eye in the tree right at eye level so that way when I’m looking at it I know I’ve reached my height.
 
LAKY said:
I voted indifferent. I'm a landowner. I've also hunted public land. I put bolts in trees. I kill trees regularly on purpose. Some trees are extremely hard to kill. I know of one tree where I still have spikes in that have been there over 35 years.

But, imagine a world where bolts were legal on public land. Using bolts on public would make it easy, quick, light, and cheap for lots of people to go around and bolt trees. Then imagine the state opening an area to bids for logging. (Yes, there are places that allow logging on WMA's.) Those timber buyers know people have been all through there bolting trees that will devalue them. That will have an effect on buyers and their bids and the revenue it brings in.
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This can be quantified and measured.

And it can be offset.

It might not be a palatable number. But I bet I’d be willing to pay it.
 
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