Thoughts on My First Year "Trophy Hunting"

[HuntNorthEast]

Spike Bucks aren’t fawns with spots curled up in the grass.

Did you read what I said or did you just not comprehend it? I never once said a spike is a fawn... "From fawn size UP". A spike is still a "young deer" as I stated. I don't need to justify my statement either though. Have a good day sir.

 

[Arrowsquirrel]

MSU Deer Labs did a tagging and tracking program, if you haven't seen it, I know some of it is on Instagram and it is insane to see. To add to your point, people blame a deer's skillset to lack of their own.

Looking at these tracking maps it shows that from mature buck to mature buck, not much changes. Summer range, fall (rut) range, and their transitions. Every study, the mature bucks hold a very specific pattern and route annually. Every study was done from 2-4 years and had plenty of data to back this up.

There are outliers. People sometimes catch these bucks on those outliers whether it be with weapon or on camera. Then they think the buck is smart due to the lack of sightings and "night time movement". The hard facts and data show that the deer isn't out smarting you, you just weren't smart enough to figure out you're in the wrong place, at a very wrong time. People will sometimes kill these bucks in those areas by using previous years camera data and hunting 3 or 4 days around those sightings the following year to "beat the deer to the camera". Moral of the story is, space out and find his actual summer and fall range. Don't get hung up on that one midnight trailcam pic.

Most of the time we think too much and put ourselves in a pattern instead of solving the puzzle. Branch out, solve the puzzle, and kill the buck. Anyone can do it if they put in the boot time and homework. You know how I know this? Been there done that. Scouting the same area 100x and shuffling cameras won't make the buck magically appear. Jumping to the piece across the road, or two miles away across multiple roads, may land him right in your lap. Figure him out, put in the time, execute.

I think this sums it up well.

 

[swampdonkey]

Did you read what I said or did you just not comprehend it? I never once said a spike is a fawn... "From fawn size UP". A spike is still a "young deer" as I stated. I don't need to justify my statement either though. Have a good day sir.

Idk, seems like it’s you not comprehending?

Scroll back and read what Nuts said and then what I said. We are clearly talking about Spike Bucks, not fawns. And spike bucks, which are in fact young deer, do not use hiding in the grass motionless as a survival tactic like a fawn with spots would.

Glad to get that cleared up.

Have a nice day as well.

 

[mattsteg]

MSU Deer Labs did a tagging and tracking program, if you haven't seen it, I know some of it is on Instagram and it is insane to see. To add to your point, people blame a deer's skillset to lack of their own.

Looking at these tracking maps it shows that from mature buck to mature buck, not much changes. Summer range, fall (rut) range, and their transitions. Every study, the mature bucks hold a very specific pattern and route annually. Every study was done from 2-4 years and had plenty of data to back this up.

There are outliers. People sometimes catch these bucks on those outliers whether it be with weapon or on camera. Then they think the buck is smart due to the lack of sightings and "night time movement". The hard facts and data show that the deer isn't out smarting you, you just weren't smart enough to figure out you're in the wrong place, at a very wrong time. People will sometimes kill these bucks in those areas by using previous years camera data and hunting 3 or 4 days around those sightings the following year to "beat the deer to the camera". Moral of the story is, space out and find his actual summer and fall range. Don't get hung up on that one midnight trailcam pic.

Most of the time we think too much and put ourselves in a pattern instead of solving the puzzle. Branch out, solve the puzzle, and kill the buck. Anyone can do it if they put in the boot time and homework. You know how I know this? Been there done that. Scouting the same area 100x and shuffling cameras won't make the buck magically appear. Jumping to the piece across the road, or two miles away across multiple roads, may land him right in your lap. Figure him out, put in the time, execute.

It'd be really interesting if they'd done some tracking starting with young bucks. See how soon those patterns converge.

Scroll back and read what Nuts said and then what I said. We are clearly talking about Spike Bucks, not fawns. And spike bucks, which are in fact young deer, do not use hiding in the grass motionless as a survival tactic like a fawn with spots would.

Wait a second...

I’ve spent more time simply OBSERVING deer behavior being this will be my 32nd season bowhunting than most guys on this thread have been alive. I’m no rookie this deer hunting thing isn’t new to me as it obviously is to a lot of guys here.

So on one hand you're the most experienced hunter around

I have witnessed spikes and does lay down flat with their chin on the ground to let hunters walk within yards of them.

But on the other you can definitively claim that deer DO NOT use tactics that others here have in fact observed them using?

Something seems fishy.

 

[Nutterbuster]

It'd be really interesting if they'd done some tracking starting with young bucks. See how soon those patterns converge.

Yes. I'm hopeful for a study that shows a herd of deer, with all age classes and sexes of deer, over a long enough period of time that we can see old bucks die and young bucks move into the power vacuum. That'd be cool. Preferably I'd like to see it done by folks who couldn't care less about hunting so it's done without preconceived bias impacting the study. There's definitely some preconceived ideas permeating the Delaware study article.

But on the other you can definitively claim that deer DO NOT use tactics that others here have in fact observed them using?

He doesn't know what he's talking about. I google-searched it and churned up this:



I also googled bigfoot, aliens, and pictures of Elvis alive and well.

#researchskillz

 

[mattsteg]

Yes. I'm hopeful for a study that shows a herd of deer, with all age classes and sexes of deer, over a long enough period of time that we can see old bucks die and young bucks move into the power vacuum. That'd be cool. Preferably I'd like to see it done by folks who couldn't care less about hunting so it's done without preconceived bias impacting the study. There's definitely some preconceived ideas permeating the Delaware study article.


He doesn't know what he's talking about. I google-searched it and churned up this:

View attachment 52748

I also googled bigfoot, aliens, and pictures of Elvis alive and well.

#researchskillz

Yeah going head-down is definitely a shrewd "big-buck move". They pull that around here as well. It's also a natural fawn move, or a spike move, or whatever. We clearly have a tradition of referring to this sort of move as one honed from age and experience ("those wily big bucks just know exactly what you're gonna do and have the discipline to hunker down and wait you out"). Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. It probably worked for this deer in the past, so he kept doing it...but it's probably worked for just about every deer at some point.

 

[HuntNorthEast]

Idk, seems like it’s you not comprehending?

Scroll back and read what Nuts said and then what I said. We are clearly talking about Spike Bucks, not fawns. And spike bucks, which are in fact young deer, do not use hiding in the grass motionless as a survival tactic like a fawn with spots would.

Glad to get that cleared up.

Have a nice day as well.

Again, I used the term as fawns and all the way to an older age class aka starting at infancy… I’ve observed deer of all ages doing it. Spend some more time in the woods pal.

 

[HuntNorthEast]

The buck in my profile pic was laid flat behind a single bush 4’ wide with no leaves on it in a hay field… Look where that gottem…

 

[swampdonkey]

Again, I used the term as fawns and all the way to an older age class aka starting at infancy… I’ve observed deer of all ages doing it. Spend some more time in the woods pal.

Ive spent 32 years bow hunting deer and your bio says youre 30.

Looks like it’s you who has some catching up to do regarding woods time

Kids nowadays, sheesh.

 

[swampdonkey]

Yes. I'm hopeful for a study that shows a herd of deer, with all age classes and sexes of deer, over a long enough period of time that we can see old bucks die and young bucks move into the power vacuum. That'd be cool. Preferably I'd like to see it done by folks who couldn't care less about hunting so it's done without preconceived bias impacting the study. There's definitely some preconceived ideas permeating the Delaware study article.


He doesn't know what he's talking about. I google-searched it and churned up this:

View attachment 52748

I also googled bigfoot, aliens, and pictures of Elvis alive and well.

#researchskillz

That would be a bedded mature Buck NOT a spike hiding from hunters only a few yards away good grief.

Definitely getting a Facebook vibe around old saddle hunter forums nowadays. The beginning of the end.

 

[HuntNorthEast]

Ive spent 32 years bow hunting deer and your bio says youre 30.

Looks like it’s you who has some catching up to do regarding woods time

Kids nowadays, sheesh.

I’ve been hunting since 10 so that makes twenty years. Just cause you’re older doesn’t mean you have more experience… you’re clearly blind in the woods… I’m a better hunter than most of the 40+ year old clowns I see hunting.

 

[HuntNorthEast]

Ive spent 32 years bow hunting deer and your bio says youre 30.

Looks like it’s you who has some catching up to do regarding woods time

Kids nowadays, sheesh.

Anyways done arguing. You can say what you want and have the last word cause clearly it matters more to you. I’ll be mature and walk away from it. My time spent in the woods in and out of season collectively is staggering to most people. So use the I’m older argument if it helps you sleep tonight. Good luck this season. I’m done here.

 

[mattsteg]

That would be a bedded mature Buck NOT a spike hiding from hunters only a few yards away good grief.

Definitely getting a Facebook vibe around old saddle hunter forums nowadays. The beginning of the end.

Are you claiming that deer take a 1 year sabbatical from hunkering down when they're between 1-2 years of age or something? You're gonna need to bring receipts on that.....

Ive spent 32 years bow hunting deer and your bio says youre 30.

Looks like it’s you who has some catching up to do regarding woods time

Kids nowadays, sheesh.

You keep telling other people (who reported observing behaviors that you haven't!) that they need to catch up in woods time. It makes no sense. They're already reporting observing behaviors that you say you've never observed and that you are claiming don't happen.

You can't have it both ways. You're literally telling dudes that they need to go spend more time in the woods so that they can gain enough experience to not see what they've already seen. This is ridiculous.

 

[swampdonkey]

Anyways done arguing. You can say what you want and have the last word cause clearly it matters more to you. I’ll be mature and walk away from it. My time spent in the woods in and out of season collectively is staggering to most people. So use the I’m older argument if it helps you sleep tonight. Good luck this season. I’m done here.

Not just older, more experienced.

 

[swampdonkey]

I’ve been hunting since 10 so that makes twenty years. Just cause you’re older doesn’t mean you have more experience… you’re clearly blind in the woods… I’m a better hunter than most of the 40+ year old clowns I see hunting.

20 years isn’t 32

This has become the most Facebook thread i’ve seen on a forum outside of Archery Talk.

Kids nowadays

 

[Nutterbuster]

That would be a bedded mature Buck NOT a spike hiding from hunters only a few yards away good grief.

Definitely getting a Facebook vibe around old saddle hunter forums nowadays. The beginning of the end.

Brother, I've been on here twice as long as you. And I pay to help keep the lights on while you're freeloadin'. I'll save my thoughts on when this place got less cool than it used to be. But don't come at me with that whipper-snapper stuff.

On that note...anybody who considers it an achievement to have been conceived before somebody else probably doesn't have much going for them in life. That's more to your parents credit than yours.

 

[swampdonkey]

It'd be really interesting if they'd done some tracking starting with young bucks. See how soon those patterns converge.


Wait a second...

So on one hand you're the most experienced hunter around

But on the other you can definitively claim that deer DO NOT use tactics that others here have in fact observed them using?

Something seems fishy.

If you think i’m the most experienced around at 32 seasons that says a lot about your experience.

Prob be best if you listened to things i’ve said, pay attention.

 

[boyne bowhunter]

Enough bickering guys. You've all made your points. Let it go and move on.

 

[swampdonkey]

Best of luck to all you kids here. Despite the spit and vinegar i do hope you all kill some jammers.

My season starts tomorrow, i won’t be back online until Jan. No time for forums during season.

 

[mattsteg]

I wonder how much this attachment to the concept of smart bucks and the perception that hunting them is such a different game just comes from the "typical" path taken by the hunter. People start out green, happy to get anything. Maybe they become more serious - that can mean a lot of different things depending on locale as populations and local hunting practices vary a ton. That might mean chasing numbers, chasing bucks only, chasing big-bucks only, chasing encounters, whatever it may be...but the most stereotyped is the big buck hunter (especially when in a lot of areas you can be pretty mediocre overall and still have some success. Habitate and deer density are number 1 after all.)

So the lessons of how to be a better hunter overlap with the lessons of how to hunt big bucks...and what's fundamental to being the best deer hunter (regardless of deer maturity) gets imprinted as being mature buck-specific. And for sure some of it is - bucks and does have obvious differences.

Regardless of whether it's via learned or innate behavior the longest-lived animals are going to be those that have the safest lifestyles and probably be the most sensitive critters. There's a decent chance that they'll be found where the landscape gives them a decent afdvantage. The best place to find them is going to be where hunting pressure is low. They make distinctive sign. They're sensitive, so disturbing them is risky (although can pay off at times with aggressive tactics.). There are often easier ways to kill less rare deer.

None of this means that they are bringing a shedload more smarts to the table. They're still deer. If you ignore the "deer are all smooth-brained and stupid" bluster and look at what @Nutterbuster is planning to do (and how it differs from what he's done in the past)...it reads an awful lot like typical mature buck-hunting strategy, other than not callin' the critter smart.