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Warning

This forum is great. When I hunted tree stands I NEVER wore a harness. I even bought a nice one so I would be comfortable and excited to use it...still didn't work.

I researched alot on this forum and it was EASY to learn safety. I was about to make my own saddle for hunting but after I tested the fleece saddle on the ground it seemed sketchy. However, even at ground hieght I knew that a nice comfortable, SAFE saddle would make a huge improvement in the tree.

Since purchasing a saddle (mantis) I have yet to hunt a tree without being connected via linemans belt or tether. It feels great knowing that I get to come back home and hug my wife and kids. If I didn't discover the saddle I would still be climbing into old tree stands with screw in steps and no safety gear.

So thanks again to all the kind people on this forum for keeping it positive, informative and well organized.
 
T.Clarke said:
I cringe every time I see someone using a cheap carabiner or missing a stopper knot on a tether.
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A couple of years ago I talked my buddy into using ropemans and rope for linesman's belts. He went and tried them out and said how awesome they were. The next day I went to help him set one of his tree stands and saw he didn't have stopper knots! I was like "holy crap, let me fix that." He didn't think it was that big of a deal, but as he was climbing the tree 45 seconds later he pulled on his ropeman to let line out and fell back till he hit the knot. He was 6-8ft, so definitely got the pucker factor, but was safe and just leaning way back. Glad I was there!



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A lot of people are posting saying that saddle hunting is so much safer than how it used to be done, with home made tree stands and no safety harness. You're all right with that.

That being said, we still need to be aware of our unconscious ignorance. I dont mean that in an insulting way. I am referring to the"things we dont know that we dont know."

A great example is missing a stopper knot on your tether, because you haven't considered the possibility that you could adjust your prussic and slide off the end of the rope. It doesn't matter if your saddle is all load rated if it's not connected to the tree.

Whatever set up you use, dont use cheap connections to save an ounce or a buck. And try to critically evaluate it and see what can go wrong, not just how you can make it work right.

Nobody wants "oh ****" to be their last words!
 
Another mistake that has been made is not making sure your carabiner's are fastened and locked properly. I know from experience that you cannot see the locked carabiner on a lineman's belt. I had one that I thought was engaged and was not and the result was a 6 foot fall backwards. Go slow and check twice. Slow is quiet anyways.

I my case the tri lock was caught on something and not fully locked.
That said life is not without risk. Just try and reduce it.
 
Not sure of the best way to do this on the site, but maybe a fixed Safety list of Dos and Don'ts for very fast access and reading for new and old users' reference. It would be even better to require reading it when you join the forum, but I doubt that is logistically possible and too much burden to manage. I have been on this site for about a year now and the sheer volume of information is overwhelming to new users. You guys have hit it well earlier - many don't know what they don't know. I have been fortunate learn from the site and asked questions before I did something that would have been bad, but it is very hard to start now and try to read back through all the chats to get caught up.

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Wow... this is a great thread and an extremely good reminder. Thanks @Nutterbuster for starting it. The first thing that I noticed was the vast majority of responses are from the same members that have been been on here for some time. I wish I knew how many hours I have logged on this site reading through old threads, new ideas, and hearing about other people’s experiences. Learning what works and what doesn’t, and then spending time in the yard practicing and practicing and practicing to see what truely works for me. When I climb up or down a tree 30ft in the dark, I need 100% confidence in my system.

I have shared information from this forum with friends and converted a few to saddle hunting. I know that most people will not spend the time reading through this forum like I have. Family, kids, work obligations and just life may not make it feasible for them. I try to share the pros and cons of my system, mention some of the other and lighter weight systems that I have tried and my experience with them. If a friends converts to saddle hunting I hope the words of caution I share will push them to learn and test their system for themselves.
 
The weight rating on big box store rope makes it even more likely someone will have an accident. It’s easy to see how someone could buy a 600 pound breaking strength rope and think they’re ok. In reality that’s extremely dangerous.

Forums like this help but there has to be a huge percentage of saddle hunters and certainly future saddle hunters that watched a few episodes of THP and consider that an education in climbing.


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@Nutterbuster Great thread!
Anybody that has spent even a little time on this site knows that the members here are safety conscious, good people willing to help others. However, "at the end of the day", use the common sense that the good Lord gave you and always err on the side of caution. Be safe and happy holidays!
 
I never wore a harness. I used to use climbing spurs and bear hug the tree, no lineman rope. Never wore orange. A lot of stupid stuff
 
Great thread. I have been expecting some mishaps, given all the new users. I would ask that people who have had some issues like a slip, fall, kickout, things failing, etc. to please share the stories. I think it could be useful information for the rest of us to better understand what does or does not work perfectly. For example, there is a reason I never offered to sell the knaider/swaider. I had no idea if it is totally safe and goof proof. It would be very important for me to know personally of any failures in materials and performance so I can make the necessary changes for my own personal use. I am amazed that we have not heard of people slipping and falling down, at least part way until the linemans caught them. I have been tempted to take a purposeful fall from a WE step just to see what the lineman will do, but I have to admit, I am a bit hesitant. It's not the falling part that bothers me, it is the potential for that sudden stop.

It is great to hear all the success stories of our methods to climb and hang, but I think the failures could be much more useful for future development.
One more thought. Please check your gear..... often. I am not sure that everyone realizes that we have single points of failure in our system. Granted, everything is basically over built, but anything can fail. For example, some of my ropes are fraying on the WE steps. Plenty of good strands left, but I will be replacing them soon. I am keeping a close eye on them.

Pete
 
Peterk1234 said:
Great thread. I have been expecting some mishaps, given all the new users. I would ask that people who have had some issues like a slip, fall, kickout, things failing, etc. to please share the stories. I think it could be useful information for the rest of us to better understand what does or does not work perfectly. For example, there is a reason I never offered to sell the knaider/swaider. I had no idea if it is totally safe and goof proof. It would be very important for me to know personally of any failures in materials and performance so I can make the necessary changes for my own personal use. I am amazed that we have not heard of people slipping and falling down, at least part way until the linemans caught them. I have been tempted to take a purposeful fall from a WE step just to see what the lineman will do, but I have to admit, I am a bit hesitant. It's not the falling part that bothers me, it is the potential for that sudden stop.

It is great to hear all the success stories of our methods to climb and hang, but I think the failures could be much more useful for future development.
One more thought. Please check your gear..... often. I am not sure that everyone realizes that we have single points of failure in our system. Granted, everything is basically over built, but anything can fail. For example, some of my ropes are fraying on the WE steps. Plenty of good strands left, but I will be replacing them soon. I am keeping a close eye on them.

Pete
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I would strongly suggest not taking an intentional fall. There's plenty of videos out there I'm sure you can watch of other people falling and then you don't have to take the chance of hurting yourself. Although a lineman's belt will help stop you, the chances of you being able to get over the fear of being hurt to actually simulate a real fall it's not likely. I'm sure if you watch videos You'll see there's plenty videos of guys falling and not stopping very quickly. I consider my lineman's belt more of a positioning Aid Then Fall restraint. I have had several kick outs since I started using my Spurs mostly due to not paying attention and my lineman's belt has allowed me to push away from the tree and get my spur back in place. If I was not able to push away from the tree I don't believe the lineman's belt would save me from going all the way to the ground. Where as a fall restraint system will stop you from hitting the ground whether you are able assist or not(tree squeeze). In my opinion the lineman's belt being thought of a fall restraint gives a false sense of security especially to guys who are not familiar with them. I also have a lot of concern for guys tying off to the rung on the wild Edge stepp for those who use them(Cain method). The stronger point would be on the V of the bottom stand off. The rung is plenty strong enough to hold your weight obviously, but my concern is creating Slack in your rope and then falling. There is a huge difference between supporting weight, and stopping it. I spent about ten years building scaffolds and climbed every day. I can promise you no one wants to take a fall out there by themselves. I don't want to see people get overconfident in a lineman's belt ability to stop them from falling and getting hurt. Also don't want to see someone not using a lineman's belt in lieu of tying off to another piece of equipment expecting it to stop them, when it's not made to do that. Understanding your safety equipment and its ability to prevent or stop a fall it's just as important as using a safety equipment to begin with. If we think we're not going to get hurt we are more likely to take chances we wouldn't otherwise. If we improperly use our equipment and it fails there's nobody in the woods to help us things can get pretty nasty pretty quick.

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denots said:
I would strongly suggest not taking an intentional fall. There's plenty of videos out there I'm sure you can watch of other people falling and then you don't have to take the chance of hurting yourself. Although a lineman's belt will help stop you, the chances of you being able to get over the fear of being hurt to actually simulate a real fall it's not likely. I'm sure if you watch videos You'll see there's plenty videos of guys falling and not stopping very quickly. I consider my lineman's belt more of a positioning Aid Then Fall restraint. I have had several kick outs since I started using my Spurs mostly due to not paying attention and my lineman's belt has allowed me to push away from the tree and get my spur back in place. If I was not able to push away from the tree I don't believe the lineman's belt would save me from going all the way to the ground. Where as a fall restraint system will stop you from hitting the ground whether you are able assist or not(tree squeeze). In my opinion the lineman's belt being thought of a fall restraint gives a false sense of security especially to guys who are not familiar with them. I also have a lot of concern for guys tying off to the rung on the wild Edge stepp for those who use them(Cain method). The stronger point would be on the V of the bottom stand off. The rung is plenty strong enough to hold your weight obviously, but my concern is creating Slack in your rope and then falling. There is a huge difference between supporting weight, and stopping it. I spent about ten years building scaffolds and climbed every day. I can promise you no one wants to take a fall out there by themselves. I don't want to see people get overconfident in a lineman's belt ability to stop them from falling and getting hurt. Also don't want to see someone not using a lineman's belt in lieu of tying off to another piece of equipment expecting it to stop them, when it's not made to do that. Understanding your safety equipment and its ability to prevent or stop a fall it's just as important as using a safety equipment to begin with. If we think we're not going to get hurt we are more likely to take chances we wouldn't otherwise. If we improperly use our equipment and it fails there's nobody in the woods to help us things can get pretty nasty pretty quick.

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Ive pointed out on quite a few threads that a linemans belt and flip line is not a Fall Restraint/arrest device. Its a fall prevention device....to prevent falls caused by not having three points of contact (flip line, foot, foot - flipline, foot, hand - etc)

I have often thought that every prospective saddle user should be taken to a rock wall. Learn rope safety, belay techniques, safey protocol and what it feels like to 'fall'. Ive taken a 'full whipper' on a wall and that second before you feel the tension kick in seems like a lifetime. Sometimes i outweigh the folks i climb with by almost 100 pounds. You gotta build trust in the equipment & systems.

I was also a steel worker in my younger days and am amazed none of us died on the job. Our only safety was a hardhat. No harness, no tether. Would i do it again? Not on my life.

All that being said ... Everything we do as saddle hunters is dangerous...from just being in proximity to sharp pointy things or things that go boom to hanging off the side of a tree. Everything should be treated with respect and caution. If not for you, for your wives, husbands, kids...for the 1st responders who will have to put themselves in harms way to get to you...or worst case carry a 'victim' out of the woods for the final time.
 
Bumping this again as I had just joined the Facebook group...and that's honestly a really scary place. Every discussion in it's own context, starting from zero, and a lot of really scary stuff being floated. Reminds me of why Facebook sucks and dedicated forums are 1000x better. Someone's gonna get hurt, doing something they don't even realize is super-duper sketchy like a kickout from a knotted 5-step amsteel aider that isn't being by their super loose lineman belt made out of 550 cord that wouldn't have caught in their ropeman 1 anyway.

Stay safe and keep your head in the game.
 
mattsteg said:
Bumping this again as I had just joined the Facebook group...and that's honestly a really scary place. Every discussion in it's own context, starting from zero, and a lot of really scary stuff being floated. Reminds me of why Facebook sucks and dedicated forums are 1000x better. Someone's gonna get hurt, doing something they don't even realize is super-duper sketchy like a kickout from a knotted 5-step amsteel aider that isn't being by their super loose lineman belt made out of 550 cord that wouldn't have caught in their ropeman 1 anyway.

Stay safe and keep your head in the game.
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I'm torn between walking away from the page entirely, and feeling like it needs "regulars" on there. It's just a weird environment.

Huge shout out to the guys who I see on their doing their best to help.
 
Nutterbuster said:
I'm torn between walking away from the page entirely, and feeling like it needs "regulars" on there. It's just a weird environment.

Huge shout out to the guys who I see on their doing their best to help.
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Honestly makes me feel a bit ill. Like you say it seems like a creative place - including some really good ideas - but with a lot of that creativity focused on saving money/weight/whatever without really dialing in to safety implications. Hopefully people at least take it slow and cautious, but e.g. SRT on the cheapest mechanical devices someone who has never climbed before thinks might work gives me the absolute willies.
 
mattsteg said:
Honestly makes me feel a bit ill. Like you say it seems like a creative place - including some really good ideas - but with a lot of that creativity focused on saving money/weight/whatever without really dialing in to safety implications. Hopefully people at least take it slow and cautious, but e.g. SRT on the cheapest mechanical devices someone who has never climbed before thinks might work gives me the absolute willies.
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Yeah, I was 30ft up a pine in a clearcut with a 15 mph wind last week. I was unashamedly a bit tense, but I KNEW my gear would keep me safe, and I knew I was in a strong and healthy tree.

I knew that because I have had lots of conversations with a bunch of awesome guys on here who share my desire to shave weight, but also try to veer on the side of caution. Guys with awesome credentials in various relevant fields who are a heckuva lot smarter than me. The conversations on here are of a MUCH higher quality.

Anybody can talk on facebook, but it takes a little dedication to come on here regularly. And social media just isn't conductive to detailed explanations and rational thought.

I'm glad redsquirrel built us all such a snug little nest! Lol
 
Nutterbuster said:
Yeah, I was 30ft up a pine in a clearcut with a 15 mph wind last week. I was unashamedly a bit tense, but I KNEW my gear would keep me safe, and I knew I was in a strong and healthy tree.

I knew that because I have had lots of conversations with a bunch of awesome guys on here who share my desire to shave weight, but also try to veer on the side of caution. Guys with awesome credentials in various relevant fields who are a heckuva lot smarter than me. The conversations on here are of a MUCH higher quality.

Anybody can talk on facebook, but it takes a little dedication to come on here regularly. And social media just isn't conductive to detailed explanations and rational thought.

I'm glad redsquirrel built us all such a snug little nest! Lol
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Can't remember how many times I've referenced this site to readers on the Facebook site. Have always been safe since using the rock harness/tree tether system. But after listening to guys on this site, have learned soooo many extra safety procedures that will backup what I do! From splicing amsteel to backup knots to rope types, y'all sure are a wealth of info!
 
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