Webbing ascender

[redsquirrel]

Or this


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Just went to the website. That new design looks very similar to what I'm thinking for the tree strap portion. Wish that he didn't have the pictures so small, I can't really see what he is using to secure the strap to the bridge. It might just be a slide buckle like I had in my 3rd photo.

Going to dinner now guys... gonna keep brain storming this.

 

[essdub]

Haven't seen aluminum one, but truthfully I hadn't been looking. This is what I thought of . Just need to sew it properly and maybe attach an eye hole instead of cutting and repairing. It was a spur of the moment idea and I've Been meaning to get back to this but I have so many little projects going on with garden and fruit trees and berry plants. Not to mention that I'm working sixty hours every week right now. I'd kinda forgotten about the web buckle. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention. There's so many great things you can do with these buckles. I just need to fix this one now, instead of just poking holes in a strap and doubling up the webbing for strength around the hole.

 

[Matty]

Scott, please bear with the rough paint sketch, but imagine the following.

- green strap is your bridge
- the blackish grey strap is the strap you described that goes around the tree and bridge
- the light blue spots are sewing to create loops.
- the red is the adjuster side of the cobra buckle
- the yellow is the "d" side but you wouldn't actually need the "D".

The only thing I'm not 100% sure of is if adjuster side of the strap would bite. I think it would but not sure.

 

[Stykbow1]

Red I have been looking at all different ascenders lately on the climbing sites and I don't remember coming across anything that could take webbing, I recently ordered 2 Ropeman 1's for my lineman's belt and the tree strap, I don't know if they make anything like that for webbing. Also after looking at your pictures I have to say the tree rope with the Ropeman 1 looked the simplest and most elegant of the connections IMHO do you just prefer webbing over rope for this application? I will keep a lookout for anything that will work for you but you might have to contact Wildcountry or one of the other ascender manufacturers to see if they can modify one to work on webbing for you. I'm not a rock climber so I don't know for what situations they prefer webbing to rope but maybe the companies would be open to making something like that. I'll keep you posted if I see anything that might work for you.

Roger

 

[redsquirrel]

Scott, please bear with the rough paint sketch, but imagine the following.

- green strap is your bridge
- the blackish grey strap is the strap you described that goes around the tree and bridge
- the light blue spots are sewing to create loops.
- the red is the adjuster side of the cobra buckle
- the yellow is the "d" side but you wouldn't actually need the "D".

The only thing I'm not 100% sure of is if adjuster side of the strap would bite. I think it would but not sure.

Matt, that might be the best idea yet. Most of the cobra buckles are made without the D anyways. Without having one in hand.. I'm almost positive that the adjuster side will bite, that is what they are made to do. If you look at this picture you can see there is a little slide in there for it to move to bite down.

 

[redsquirrel]

Also after looking at your pictures I have to say the tree rope with the Ropeman 1 looked the simplest and most elegant of the connections IMHO do you just prefer webbing over rope for this application?

Thanks Roger. Yes I prefer webbing. It packs smaller and lighter.

 

[Stykbow1]

Red I can't disagree with that the ropes aren't nearly as compact as the webbing I was in the basement the night before daisy chaining my lineman's belt and it certainly takes up more space than the web HS lineman's belt that I have, but I like the look and feel of the rope better. Also some of the webbing I've seen lately on the climbing sites is amazingly strong for it's size and diameter but all the books caution about tying knots in the webbing as opposed to rope, but in your case it will be sewn so that isn't an issue. I guess like a lot of things with the saddle there's more than one way to do it and if the strap works best for you I say go for it and I hope you can find the hardware to make your ultimate tree strap I know there are other guys out there who prefer the strap as well. Keep us posted I'd like to see what you guys come up with.

Roger

 

[redsquirrel]

Scott, please bear with the rough paint sketch, but imagine the following.

- green strap is your bridge
- the blackish grey strap is the strap you described that goes around the tree and bridge
- the light blue spots are sewing to create loops.
- the red is the adjuster side of the cobra buckle
- the yellow is the "d" side but you wouldn't actually need the "D".

The only thing I'm not 100% sure of is if adjuster side of the strap would bite. I think it would but not sure.

Matt, that might be the best idea yet. Most of the cobra buckles are made without the D anyways. Without having one in hand.. I'm almost positive that the adjuster side will bite, that is what they are made to do. If you look at this picture you can see there is a little slide in there for it to move to bite down.

Rethinking this slightly. Was just out in the garage fooling with a slide buckle.

The way you have it drawn would limit how far you could adjust it. You would basically only be able to slide the slide buckle portion up and down the webbing to adjust length. I was concerned about the buckle biting down but as long as you have tension one both ends, i.e. the strap lays 180 degrees flat, it won't budge.

So...... they make the buckle in a dual adjustable version:

Instead of the end being sewn into the cobra buckle, you could now have it thread through another slide (this would be exactly like the bottom potion of the tree saddle strap), and that tag end would now be the main adjustment for the length of the strap, the other slide portion would just be your hookup point and used for fine tuning.

I think this is awesome and will work. It takes almost the exact design of the trophyline strap but gets rid of the extra length of webbing. It avoids a metal contact point on the bridge, and avoids the use of carabiners.

Alright everyone! Critique away! Lets hear your thoughts!

 

[Stykbow1]

It's looks pretty good I hope you're able to work out all the kinks and have it function exactly as you want it to. The question I have is I keep hearing no metal to metal contact and other stuff mentioned but I've yet to experience that while in the saddle and hooked up, is this an issue many saddle users are running into? I realize a strap has it's merits and metal to metal contact is something we all try to avoid but is this an issue for a lot of saddle users while hunting? I'm new to the whole saddle game so this may seem like a simple question but where are users getting metal to metal contact from? I plan on taping all my metal contact points close to the season but it would be help to know the areas that I should concentrate on.
Thanks.

Roger

 

[ADKMtnTrapper]

This is all interesting stuff I am currently using the rope style that comes with the Aero evo. I am wondering what are the benefits of switching to a webbing style tether?

 

[redsquirrel]

It's looks pretty good I hope you're able to work out all the kinks and have it function exactly as you want it to. The question I have is I keep hearing no metal to metal contact and other stuff mentioned but I've yet to experience that while in the saddle and hooked up, is this an issue many saddle users are running into? I realize a strap has it's merits and metal to metal contact is something we all try to avoid but is this an issue for a lot of saddle users while hunting? I'm new to the whole saddle game so this may seem like a simple question but where are users getting metal to metal contact from? I plan on taping all my metal contact points close to the season but it would be help to know the areas that I should concentrate on.
Thanks.

Roger

Metal to metal would be a carabiner in the ropeman 1, or if i were to use a carbiner to hook into the d loop attached to the cobra buckle. I would just like to try to avoid it if possible, it is always quieter that way :lol:

 

[redsquirrel]

This is all interesting stuff I am currently using the rope style that comes with the Aero evo. I am wondering what are the benefits of switching to a webbing style tether?

For me, I like webbing because it is lighter and can be packed up more compact.

 

[essdub]

Rethinking this slightly. Was just out in the garage fooling with a slide buckle.

The way you have it drawn would limit how far you could adjust it. You would basically only be able to slide the slide buckle portion up and down the webbing to adjust length. I was concerned about the buckle biting down but as long as you have tension one both ends, i.e. the strap lays 180 degrees flat, it won't budge.

So...... they make the buckle in a dual adjustable version:

Instead of the end being sewn into the cobra buckle, you could now have it thread through another slide (this would be exactly like the bottom potion of the tree saddle strap), and that tag end would now be the main adjustment for the length of the strap, the other slide portion would just be your hookup point and used for fine tuning.

I think this is awesome and will work. It takes almost the exact design of the trophyline strap but gets rid of the extra length of webbing. It avoids a metal contact point on the bridge, and avoids the use of carabiners.

Alright everyone! Critique away! Lets hear your thoughts![/quote]


That looks like a great idea. I had no idea they made those. How likely do you think it would be to accidentally release the buckle trying to adjust length? Or maybe I'm not quite getting the picture. Please explain a little more, because I really like this idea and wanna use it.

 

[redsquirrel]

That looks like a great idea. I had no idea they made those. How likely do you think it would be to accidentally release the buckle trying to adjust length? Or maybe I'm not quite getting the picture. Please explain a little more, because I really like this idea and wanna use it.

I don't think it would be likely to release the buckle while trying to adjust length, but I haven't had my hands on one. The buckles are made to be under load.

Here is some reading:
http://www.austrialpin.net/products/cobra/specs.asp
http://www.austrialpin.net/products/cobra/certs.asp
http://www.unitconversion.org/force/kil ... rsion.html

WIth a rating of 4000 lbs and breaking strength in the tests of 4700+ lbs I think the buckles should be sufficient to hold a couple hundred lbs?

 

[Stykbow1]

It's looks pretty good I hope you're able to work out all the kinks and have it function exactly as you want it to. The question I have is I keep hearing no metal to metal contact and other stuff mentioned but I've yet to experience that while in the saddle and hooked up, is this an issue many saddle users are running into? I realize a strap has it's merits and metal to metal contact is something we all try to avoid but is this an issue for a lot of saddle users while hunting? I'm new to the whole saddle game so this may seem like a simple question but where are users getting metal to metal contact from? I plan on taping all my metal contact points close to the season but it would be help to know the areas that I should concentrate on.
Thanks.

Roger

Metal to metal would be a carabiner in the ropeman 1, or if i were to use a carbiner to hook into the d loop attached to the cobra buckle. I would just like to try to avoid it if possible, it is always quieter that way :lol:

I will make sure that I pay attention to those areas and try and make them as quiet as possible but I have to say I really like the Ropeman 1 and the carabiner I think it is a really slick system, the Blakes hitch drives me crazy, and will keep you posted on how it's working for me.

Roger

 

[redsquirrel]

I will make sure that I pay attention to those areas and try and make them as quiet as possible but I have to say I really like the Ropeman 1 and the carabiner I think it is a really slick system, the Blakes hitch drives me crazy, and will keep you posted on how it's working for me.

Roger

Yea, the ropeman 1 works really good and it is pretty quiet as well because you don't have to attach/detach it all the time.

 

[1saddleguy]

I would be careful when choosing hardware. The Cobra buckles that you are looking at are made for waist and leg straps and would be part of an overall safety harness. The rating on them used with a straight pull is 9kn = 2023 lbs. In addition, the release tabs that stick out could accidentally be pressed. I think so far the Ropeman that is being used sounds like a good idea for those that are ok with some metal. I use a couple of rope grabs when cleaning the roof and they are great for quick easy readjustments.

 

[Stykbow1]

I would be careful when choosing hardware. The Cobra buckles that you are looking at are made for waist and leg straps and would be part of an overall safety harness. The rating on them used with a straight pull is 9kn = 2023 lbs. In addition, the release tabs that stick out could accidentally be pressed. I think so far the Ropeman that is being used sounds like a good idea for those that are ok with some metal. I use a couple of rope grabs when cleaning the roof and they are great for quick easy readjustments.

Hi 1sadlleguy,

I was just wondering what is the rule of thumb for a safe safety system is because I know in many cases the ropes and straps being used in saddle systems are rated for 3000 to 5000 lbs in some cases even more are there guidelines that we should be following? I mentioned in another thread that a saddle user could try using an HS strap with a carabiner to attach his tree rope to because the diameter of the tree was so big his tree rope wouldn't make it with enough room to hook up and Red reminded me that it was a fall restraint system and may not be able to handle the load of hanging full time, is this similar to that? I realize what your talking about if you accidentally disengage the buckle it could make for a bad situation since that is the sole tie in point when you are hunting in the saddle is there anything that would make it safer? I personally don't have any issues with the ropes except for the Blake's hitch binding on the main ropes like the bridge and since I'm getting the Ropeman 1 for the lineman's belt and tree rope and going to a fixed bridge I think I will have those issues resolved by incorporating those fixes. What guidelines would you suggest to those looking to modify or tweak their system as far as weight and breaking strength of rope and webbing and what areas you feel we should avoid trying to tweak or modify? Thanks for your input and advice it's greatly appreciated!

Roger

 

[redsquirrel]

Hey Casey,

Roger just asked some good questions. Maybe you could give us some info regarding safety ratings.
Also, I completely get your concerns with the release tabs that could be pressed. I read that those buckles had a rating of 18 kN. Wouldn't that correspond to 4000 lbs, or am I missing something, or looking at the wrong rating?

Thanks!

 

[1saddleguy]

Hi Red and Skybow,

I am working on a complete response to Skybow as well as anyone who reads this thread. I want to be as complete as I can and will post as soon as I have it. Red, I saw 2 ratings listed and the one for a straight pull said 9kn if I am not mistaken. I think that is the way it would be used. The purpose for which the hardware was made and tested to is really important. On the subject of the prusik cord I do know that it does have it's limitations. The thinner diameter of cord on rope is a lot of what makes it stick. When I use a blakes hitch to tree climb I have my rope creating a blakes to the same rope. This makes the same diameter for blakes hitch and rope. It is a lot smoother. I created a tree strap once with 1 piece of rope that made up your treestrap and blakes hitch. I might look at this again.