• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Who Wants Nothing To Do With One Sticking?

This thread and the 2TC thread has me thinking a lot about comparative minimalist systems. What are the major 5lb max systems to climb and hang/stand? Not counting saddle weight differences nor packs and gear that are all personal choices.

You have to be able to climb to hunting height (and back down) and have a place for your feet, all for 5 lbs max. Initial thoughts:

1) 2TC, rappel, ROS or small platform
2) SRT, rappel ROS or small platform
3) no-stick, rappel, small platform
4) 1-stick, rappel, ROS
5) 1-stick (with platform top), rappel,
6) 1-stick, no rappel, small platform
7) LWHC
8) Strap on steps, ROS

All but #8 involve "tether climbing" (safety, danger, & annoyance).
Five of these involve rappelling.
While bulk varies, they are all relatively low bulk.
 
Last edited:
This thread and the 2TC thread has me thinking a lot about comparative minimalist systems. What are the major 5lb max systems to climb and hang/stand? Not counting saddle weight differences nor packs and gear that are all personal choices.

You have to be able to climb to hunting height (and back down) and have a place for your feet, all for 5 lbs max. Initial thoughts:

1) 2TC, rappel, ROS or small platform
2) SRT, rappel ROS or small platform
3) no-stick, rappel, small platform
4) 1-stick, rappel, ROS
5) 1-stick (with platform top), rappel,
6) 1-stick, no rappel, small platform
7) LWHC

All of these involve "tether climbing" (safety, danger, & annoyance).
Five of these involve rappelling.
While bulk varies, they are all relatively low bulk.

bolts when legal for climbing and ROS is the cats meow and I assume around the 5lb mark?
 
bolts when legal for climbing and ROS is the cats meow and I assume around the 5lb mark?
Yeah, I forgot to include the part about public land legal. Bolts and spurs are tops when this is relaxed.

Also forgot strap on steps. Not 100% on total weight but I believe you can use them and an ROS under the 5 lb limit.
 
This thread and the 2TC thread has me thinking a lot about comparative minimalist systems. What are the major 5lb max systems to climb and hang/stand? Not counting saddle weight differences nor packs and gear that are all personal choices.

You have to be able to climb to hunting height (and back down) and have a place for your feet, all for 5 lbs max. Initial thoughts:

1) 2TC, rappel, ROS or small platform
2) SRT, rappel ROS or small platform
3) no-stick, rappel, small platform
4) 1-stick, rappel, ROS
5) 1-stick (with platform top), rappel,
6) 1-stick, no rappel, small platform
7) LWHC
8) Strap on steps, ROS

All but #8 involve "tether climbing" (safety, danger, & annoyance).
Five of these involve rappelling.
While bulk varies, they are all relatively low bulk.
Why didn't you start a new thread? Anyway, hijacked now.
 
Why didn't you start a new thread? Anyway, hijacked now.
Yes. I'm a hijacker. I guess I usually have thoughts in reaction to a given thread, so they feel applicable. Like how not wanting anything to do with 1-sticking is related to the tradeoffs that 1-sticking faces relative to other minimalist systems.

I also feel like starting new threads is often more disruptive than working with existing ones. I enjoy a good meandering conversation as I read through threads. Might be just my perspective. Apologies to OP and others if you are upset by my contributions.
 
TL;DR All climbing methods are just about the same when viewed in proper context. People don't typically view them in the proper context. The variable that matters most is hidden in the profile of the climber/hunter/style of hunting - not the climbing method used. Study yourself and your habits.





These conversations/debates always end up being circular. We all lack the proper context and perspective to compare with each other. This is why I always try to broaden the questions being asked.

Folks seem to hone in on one negative or positive about equipment, or conflate certain aspects with other unrelated equipment/methods.

I try to think about climbing methods the following way:

I consider all aspects of a climbing method.

- How much does it cost compared to other methods, and in the context of my own budget?
- If it has any complexity to it, or moving parts, how accessible is service and replacements?
- How much does it weigh?
- How well does it pack for scouting, hunting, packing out with deer parts added to the mix ( l like to make one trip in, one trip out when possible)?
- How much time does it take me to learn to use the equipment/method compared to other equipment/methods?
- How much risk do I incur compared to other equipment/methods, in the context of my whole hunting experience?
- How much time/effort does it take me to prepare the stuff to go hunting, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take me to walk in with the stuff, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to unpack and prepare the stuff to start climbing, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to climb up with the stuff, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to prepare the stuff to start climbing down, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to climb down with the stuff, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to pack up the stuff to walk out, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to walk out with the stuff, comparatively?
- How much time/effort/space does it take to store the stuff at home, comparatively?

If that seems insane, it is. I'm single, don't have kids, have disposable income, and like to hunt and play with hunting gear.

What I've found, is that when you do this analysis, ALL climbing methods become indecipherable from each other, with all variables held constant but the climbing method. What does change, is the weight that each individual person applies to each of the above aspects.

I'm personally happy that no one really thinks about this stuff in any great detail. Why? It's the reason we have such an awesome classifieds section. People buy stuff because one guy says one aspect of a piece of equipment makes it a game changer. 50 people buy it immediately, and then regret doing so, because they lacked the context of their own hunting situations/styles. They end up selling it at a good discount.

But here are some things that might clear up some of the conversation about using a single stick to climb:

Single stick climbing, conceptually, is different from using multiple sticks, in two ways - you only have one stick, and your feet are not on a stick when you attach the "next" stick.

Complaints about noise, complexity, etc. are absurd in my opinion. But I can see how they come up from folks who aren't thinking about the problem properly. Attaching a stick to a tree makes the same amount of noise, whether it is one stick being reused, or a second stick. If you make too much noise while repositioning the stick, it's because you're not experienced enough doing it, not flexible or strong enough to execute it, or some random thing during your climb causes it. That doesn't make one stick climbing noisy, it makes you noisy. Complaints about complexity make no sense. You're attaching a stick to a tree 2-6 times, the same as you would when you use multiple sticks. Yes, you add advancing a tether, and reaching down for a stick. Guess what? You take away the need for removing sticks if you rappel down. And even if you don't, you eliminate the noise/effort of unpacking and packing up, and climbing up and down with multiple sticks.

Much of the issues brought up regarding stability, leaning trees, risk, etc. seem to center on aiders. Guess what - you can single stick without aiders. Or shorter ones. But the issue isn't single stick climbing, it's aiders, and your relationship to them. However, if you're comparing climbing multiple sticks to a single stick, but both have, or don't have aiders, you've eliminated that variable from the picture. If you are comparing it to some completely different climbing method, all the other factors above come back into play, and the total sum difference disappears. See a trend here?

One complaint I see a lot is the time needed to become proficient with the method, compared to others. One could make the argument that folks should be spending a lot more time thinking about, practicing, and perfecting even the simplest of climbing methods. Just because you CAN be mindless about attaching multiple sticks to a tree, or using a climbing platform (that doesn't exist commercially today), doesn't mean you should. It shows a lack of understanding of risk, as well as an incomplete comparison to the other methods being considered.

Another issue that gets talked about in a weird way, is the fact that all youtube videos of climbing methods are on straight, limbless trees. People rightly intuit that climbing a leaning tree, or one with branches, is more difficult/time consuming/risky than climbing a straight one with no branches. What they get wrong is neglecting to consider that ALL climbing methods get more difficult/time consuming/risky with a leaner/branches. When you consider the delta between climbing a straight/limbless versus leaning/limbed for a single climbing method, it leaves out important context. You have to take that delta, and plug it into the multivariate analysis above. What you find is that the time/effort/risk delta is largely swallowed up by the total difference across all of those other important factors.


You can compare this to the silly heavy/light fixed/mechanical debate on arrows. Same issues.


If you're thinking about trying one stick climbing - it is going to be better or worse than what you're currently using to climb. That's a fact. However, it will likely be much less better or worse than you have in your head. Only you can determine this, and it can only be determined through a pretty thorough analysis.

If you're thinking about getting away from one stick climbing, any other method will definitely be better or worse. That's a fact. However, it will likely be much less better or worse than you have in your head. Only you can determine this, and it can only be determined through a pretty thorough analysis.
 
Yes. I'm a hijacker. I guess I usually have thoughts in reaction to a given thread, so they feel applicable. Like how not wanting anything to do with 1-sticking is related to the tradeoffs that 1-sticking faces relative to other minimalist systems.

I also feel like starting new threads is often more disruptive than working with existing ones. I enjoy a good meandering conversation as I read through threads. Might be just my perspective. Apologies to OP and others if you are upset by my contributions.
Yes, SRT. People always want to know the weight of different combinations of gear but I had this picture from months ago. I am guilty of contributing to the hijacking but @kyler1945 got it back on track.
 
TL;DR All climbing methods are just about the same when viewed in proper context. People don't typically view them in the proper context. The variable that matters most is hidden in the profile of the climber/hunter/style of hunting - not the climbing method used. Study yourself and your habits.





These conversations/debates always end up being circular. We all lack the proper context and perspective to compare with each other. This is why I always try to broaden the questions being asked.

Folks seem to hone in on one negative or positive about equipment, or conflate certain aspects with other unrelated equipment/methods.

I try to think about climbing methods the following way:

I consider all aspects of a climbing method.

- How much does it cost compared to other methods, and in the context of my own budget?
- If it has any complexity to it, or moving parts, how accessible is service and replacements?
- How much does it weigh?
- How well does it pack for scouting, hunting, packing out with deer parts added to the mix ( l like to make one trip in, one trip out when possible)?
- How much time does it take me to learn to use the equipment/method compared to other equipment/methods?
- How much risk do I incur compared to other equipment/methods, in the context of my whole hunting experience?
- How much time/effort does it take me to prepare the stuff to go hunting, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take me to walk in with the stuff, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to unpack and prepare the stuff to start climbing, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to climb up with the stuff, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to prepare the stuff to start climbing down, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to climb down with the stuff, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to pack up the stuff to walk out, comparatively?
- How much time/effort does it take to walk out with the stuff, comparatively?
- How much time/effort/space does it take to store the stuff at home, comparatively?

If that seems insane, it is. I'm single, don't have kids, have disposable income, and like to hunt and play with hunting gear.

What I've found, is that when you do this analysis, ALL climbing methods become indecipherable from each other, with all variables held constant but the climbing method. What does change, is the weight that each individual person applies to each of the above aspects.

I'm personally happy that no one really thinks about this stuff in any great detail. Why? It's the reason we have such an awesome classifieds section. People buy stuff because one guy says one aspect of a piece of equipment makes it a game changer. 50 people buy it immediately, and then regret doing so, because they lacked the context of their own hunting situations/styles. They end up selling it at a good discount.

But here are some things that might clear up some of the conversation about using a single stick to climb:

Single stick climbing, conceptually, is different from using multiple sticks, in two ways - you only have one stick, and your feet are not on a stick when you attach the "next" stick.

Complaints about noise, complexity, etc. are absurd in my opinion. But I can see how they come up from folks who aren't thinking about the problem properly. Attaching a stick to a tree makes the same amount of noise, whether it is one stick being reused, or a second stick. If you make too much noise while repositioning the stick, it's because you're not experienced enough doing it, not flexible or strong enough to execute it, or some random thing during your climb causes it. That doesn't make one stick climbing noisy, it makes you noisy. Complaints about complexity make no sense. You're attaching a stick to a tree 2-6 times, the same as you would when you use multiple sticks. Yes, you add advancing a tether, and reaching down for a stick. Guess what? You take away the need for removing sticks if you rappel down. And even if you don't, you eliminate the noise/effort of unpacking and packing up, and climbing up and down with multiple sticks.

Much of the issues brought up regarding stability, leaning trees, risk, etc. seem to center on aiders. Guess what - you can single stick without aiders. Or shorter ones. But the issue isn't single stick climbing, it's aiders, and your relationship to them. However, if you're comparing climbing multiple sticks to a single stick, but both have, or don't have aiders, you've eliminated that variable from the picture. If you are comparing it to some completely different climbing method, all the other factors above come back into play, and the total sum difference disappears. See a trend here?

One complaint I see a lot is the time needed to become proficient with the method, compared to others. One could make the argument that folks should be spending a lot more time thinking about, practicing, and perfecting even the simplest of climbing methods. Just because you CAN be mindless about attaching multiple sticks to a tree, or using a climbing platform (that doesn't exist commercially today), doesn't mean you should. It shows a lack of understanding of risk, as well as an incomplete comparison to the other methods being considered.

Another issue that gets talked about in a weird way, is the fact that all youtube videos of climbing methods are on straight, limbless trees. People rightly intuit that climbing a leaning tree, or one with branches, is more difficult/time consuming/risky than climbing a straight one with no branches. What they get wrong is neglecting to consider that ALL climbing methods get more difficult/time consuming/risky with a leaner/branches. When you consider the delta between climbing a straight/limbless versus leaning/limbed for a single climbing method, it leaves out important context. You have to take that delta, and plug it into the multivariate analysis above. What you find is that the time/effort/risk delta is largely swallowed up by the total difference across all of those other important factors.


You can compare this to the silly heavy/light fixed/mechanical debate on arrows. Same issues.


If you're thinking about trying one stick climbing - it is going to be better or worse than what you're currently using to climb. That's a fact. However, it will likely be much less better or worse than you have in your head. Only you can determine this, and it can only be determined through a pretty thorough analysis.

If you're thinking about getting away from one stick climbing, any other method will definitely be better or worse. That's a fact. However, it will likely be much less better or worse than you have in your head. Only you can determine this, and it can only be determined through a pretty thorough analysis.

i dont know if you are trying to increase the saddle hunting effect/classified section or decrease...but very thoughtful post and may find a budget way to give it a shot or wait for the saddle Hunting effect take place and classified gets flooded!
 
Lets keep the personal back and forth to a minimum. All threads tend to follow a winding course, hence the reference to threads. A certain amount of hijacking is expected as long as the thread generally stays on topic. Bickering is not an acceptable hijack. Thanks guys!
 
Kyler hits on a point that I think is important to 1 stick, multi-stick, and aider climbing systems: step distance is critical to safety and proficiency. Its not one size fits all.

Because this is a subjective consideration, I'll focus on my own preference. 13" step...no more than 15" step. Consider an original LW uses a 15" step....a step ladder a 12" step. That's the height I can easily lift my foot in the cold after a long trek with boots on keeping my raised foot in line with my other foot (aka ladder motion not stair motion). I'm over 6' tall and "athletic" enough.

Now, some may be more safe and proficient with the 20" and 24" setups that have become popular. That hasn't been my personal fit.

The point is to reiterate just one of the quality observations Kyler makes...tailor the system to you before you have a go.

Also, I believe a 1 stick w/o aider is doable for those who are aider shy. Certainly, an aider makes the moves fewer, but with a 30" stick you can be at 20ft with an extra move, worst case probably two.
 
Back
Top