Understanding wind and thermals in the mountains

[greg728]

I recently moved to a more hilly/mountainous part of PA and I’d like to learn more about how wind and thermals behave in areas with more terrain and elevation changes. The area I’m originally from is flatter with slight elevation changes and has more subtle terrain & vegetation edges so wind and thermals was pretty straightforward for the most part as long as I wasn’t in a creek bottom. This new area is much different.

I guess I just wanted to know if there’s any rule of thumb with thermals in the mountains that I should consider or be aware of and how bucks will likely use them. If I’m hunting evenings outside of bedding areas should I focus on lower elevations due to the thermal switch? If thermals are dropping I would imagine a mature buck would like the security of having the thermal advantage in his travels. I’m still newer to bow hunting (coming up on year 4) so I’m still learning a lot but I’ve been immersing myself in all of this and it’s become an obsession. Any general advice or guidelines would be appreciated.

 

[elk yinzer]

Don't overthink it. Take some milkweed or powder with you and try to stay downwind of where you expect deer to hang out. I tend to have more issues with ground scent and clean access than wind in the tree. Somtimes you have to walk two miles to hunt 400 yards from the truck, and that's the part I see people get lazy about the most.

You're going to have more swirly days in the mountains than not, cost of doing business up here. Thermals are real, yes. Know thermals, love thermals, hate thermals, whatever. They aren't really complicated. Til they are at the switching hour. Which is all day in some places. Don't overthink where deer are going to be based on the wind direction (i.e. the leeward bedding stuff). It's a bunch of mularkey to take it to that extent imo.

 

[JoyRyd]

In Colorado....Hot air rises, and cool air sinks. So, in the morning the air is being warmed by the sun....up it goes. In the evening the air is being cooled by the lack of sun.....down it goes.
This is a general statement regarding thermal flow, but it has never let me down so far (Physics). If you factor in prevailing winds and eddy's, then the up/down flows will have a horizontal component.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

The term "mountains" is a lot more complex than it just being an area of higher elevation.
Wind patterns in the long, parallel ridges of central PA will behave differntly than the complicated mountains of the area in N West Virginia for example. Drive down I-79 near the WVa/PA border and observe those mountains. They are large "humps" with no apparent orientation. At any time of the day, there will be areas of sun exposure abutting shade creating competing thermals in conjunction with predominant winds over complex terrain that create all sorts of wind eddys. Wind speed and cloud cover will be important factors on how squirrely surface wind will be.
Those long, parallel ridges of central PA will produce a more stable wind but it too will be based on predominant wind direction in relation to ridge orientaion, speed and cloud cover are factors.

Tons of factors come into play.
Overnight lows, versus daytime highs and cloud cover have a dramatic effect on thermals.

Tip...
Go on Google Earth and use the function that shows sun exposure over terrain. Use the slider and see just how complex the areas of sun versus competing shade (meaning competing thermals) is over the course of the day.
Thermal behavior is a lot more complicated than just "rising or falling" air currents.

 

[bigmike23]

Trying to understand wind and thermals in the mountains is like trying to understand how you get hit with the random "K" in an otherwise great conversation with your significant other. You begin to use the scientific method to understand what the heck you did wrong but realize you'll get no where with no further understanding.


Steve sherk is a superb hunter and Mtn guide in NW pa. He spoke on this and in his mind, as long as the wind is in his favor 60% of the time he stays.

At least 6-7 out of 10 hunts are ruined over the wind. You have to get used to it.

 

[JoyRyd]

I would disagree that it is overly complicated....it's really not that difficult. Keep your nose in the wind, pay attention to the time of day and temps during a given day, and just have fun. Or, you will drive yourself nuts over a very simple concept.

There are a lot of people on here smarter than I. That said, I simply hunt via the K.I.S.S. method to maintain the enjoyment of a great day outdoors. You can always pack a small weather station, thermal conductors, a dictionary, and a few other odds and ends to establish a mobil weather lab in your area.....that should cover the bases.

 

[greg728]

The term "mountains" is a lot more complex than it just being an area of higher elevation.
Wind patterns in the long, parallel ridges of central PA will behave differntly than the complicated mountains of the area in N West Virginia for example. Drive down I-79 near the WVa/PA border and observe those mountains. They are large "humps" with no apparent orientation. At any time of the day, there will be areas of sun exposure abutting shade creating competing thermals in conjunction with predominant winds over complex terrain that create all sorts of wind eddys. Wind speed and cloud cover will be important factors on how squirrely surface wind will be.
Those long, parallel ridges of central PA will produce a more stable wind but it too will be based on predominant wind direction in relation to ridge orientaion, speed and cloud cover are factors.

Tons of factors come into play.
Overnight lows, versus daytime highs and cloud cover have a dramatic effect on thermals.

Tip...
Go on Google Earth and use the function that shows sun exposure over terrain. Use the slider and see just how complex the areas of sun versus competing shade (meaning competing thermals) is over the course of the day.
Thermal behavior is a lot more complicated than just "rising or falling" air currents.

Where I’m at there are a good amount of long, parallel ridges as well as a few other places with a little more complex terrain. It’s nothing like West Virginia though. I’ve looked at topo maps from w Virginia and I’ve never really seen terrain like that before. The first hunt I had here this year on the downwind side of the mountain I dropped milkweed and it quickly shot straight up towards the mountain going against the prevailing wind.

 

[Bigterp]

I’ll add just hunt it! Drop milkweed & look for patterns based on conditions, then get better at predicting what you think it should be….. then test yourself by truthing it out. It can be frustrating but rewarding

 

[woodsdog2]

I've witnessed myself or via trail cams or other means deer do things spectacularly opposite of what they're supposed to do. For example, all bucks are supposed to bed with the wind at their backs facing downwind correct? I will try and post a picture of at least a 3 and a half year old buck in a bed just below a steep ridge face, bedded INTO the wind looking back Up at the ridge line. This was post season pics just last month. Now, to hunt this buck best would probably be to get in early in the morning with that north wind so everything is blowing to the south as he comes from the north where the upper feed fields are back to his bed below the ridgeline running east west. Alternatively, you may want to hunt it in the pm but hope the wind shifts from the south OR that you will be just on an off wind as he leaves his bed to go back up and to the north to feed for the evening and night. But he didn't bed in the same bed either with bucks maybe every 2-4 days back in that bed........ if the wind was "right" he should have been there. This randomness is what gets me. In reality, we are still just hunting somewhat randomly an animal that will always behave somewhat randomly.

 

[BTaylor]

I would disagree that it is overly complicated....it's really not that difficult. Keep your nose in the wind, pay attention to the time of day and temps during a given day, and just have fun. Or, you will drive yourself nuts over a very simple concept.

Thermals may be simple in NW CO but I havent seen it play out that way in the San Juan's. The only thing that is a 100% down there is air movement will generally follow the normal thermal pattern until you are in or close to in range of elk. Then regardless of anything else it will shift and blow directly to the elk. They could be upwind with a steady 15 mph breeze and that crap will do a 180 as soon as you start thinking about a shot.

 

[woodsdog2]

Thermals may be simple in NW CO but I havent seen it play out that way in the San Juan's. The only thing that is a 100% down there is air movement will generally follow the normal thermal pattern until you are in or close to in range of elk. Then regardless of anything else it will shift and blow directly to the elk. They could be upwind with a steady 15 mph breeze and that crap will do a 180 as soon as you start thinking about a shot.

Sounds like our WNY hills, draws and hollars!!!

 

[BTaylor]

I just barely started gaining a little experience this past season hunting mountain whitetails but one thing that kept popping in my mind in relation to hunting certain spots was picking days to hunt that would work best for the geographical location as it relates to wind and thermal movement. As an example, let's say the spot is a pinch point at the head of a drainage where you expect mid morning through mid day rut travel. Deer could be moving up the draw or moving parallel along the ridge face. I would lean towards trying hunt that spot on bright sun day with a steady 7-10 mph. The steady wind speed should help with swirling if there arent nearby topo features that interfere and the bright sun should help with a consistent upward thermal for the time period when you expect deer to move through the location. Some locations it may be better to hunt on an overcast day where there is an opportunity to take advantage of most or all day downward air movement. What is access, when do you expect deer to be moving through the spot and what conditions are most likely to give you the wind advantage at that spot at that time? We are still "best guessing" in large part but that's how I look at it.

 

[bigmike23]

I’ll add just hunt it! Drop milkweed & look for patterns based on conditions, then get better at predicting what you think it should be….. then test yourself by truthing it out. It can be frustrating but rewarding

That's the only way I hunt anymore. I don't listen to Sturgis, Infalt, eberhart none of them anymore. The very best and most accomplished hunters I know of are all self taught and actually paid attention to what deer do. Once I started down that path my success shot up dramatically

 

[Bigterp]

That's the only way I hunt anymore. I don't listen to Sturgis, Infalt, eberhart none of them anymore. The very best and most accomplished hunters I know of are all self taught and actually paid attention to what deer do. Once I started down that path my success shot up dramatically

@woodsdog2 hit it earlier too, go ahead & think you got it all figured out & watch them doing the opposite ( guess they’re not reading the same influencers)

 

[woodsdog2]

Also, all this stuff about bucks bedding different than does. Maybe... maybe not. I have pics of both does and bucks using this bed.

 

[greg728]

That's the only way I hunt anymore. I don't listen to Sturgis, Infalt, eberhart none of them anymore. The very best and most accomplished hunters I know of are all self taught and actually paid attention to what deer do. Once I started down that path my success shot up dramatically

I think that’s part of it for me. I love all of those guys especially Infalt and Eberhart. I didn’t have anyone in my family who hunted and got into the game later in life so I threw myself into as much online content as possible looking for the best information to use as a basis to learn. The thing is it sounds like one can become too consumed by the analytics of it all and lose or never grow that gut instinct. There’s definitely some things those guys swear by that I don’t pay attention to but whenever I try a new aspect to hunting (like with this) my first reaction is to load up on as much info as possible so I have a decent reference point when I’m in the woods. I think it can be limiting though to overly rely on that stuff so I think I’m gonna take the vocal majority advice here and just go hunt and gain experience.

 

[Jammintree]

We’ve all got unique skills and skill sets, so we are best off when we create our own way.

I’ve been keeping a journal of all
My hunts and take detailed notes on all the conditions. I definitely see patterns in how conditions vary in different spots. That info has helped me make better educated guesses about which spot to choose for a particular day, how to get there, etc.

 

[Topdog]

Also, all this stuff about bucks bedding different than does. Maybe... maybe not. I have pics of both does and bucks using this bed.

And now the real question… was a balloon there as well?

 

[greg728]

And now the real question… was a balloon there as well?

Thermal hubs trip me up. I’ve hunted areas with balloons and I’m always busted or don’t see anything. The last time I hunted a spot like that I heard a buck come through blowing like crazy about 40 yards from me and thought he was busting another hunter but it was me he busted. I don’t think thermals are super complicated to understand once you get the hang of it but how to hunt hubs and be in the right place when thermals switch is still a challenge for me.

 

[Topdog]

Thermal hubs trip me up. I’ve hunted areas with balloons and I’m always busted or don’t see anything. The last time I hunted a spot like that I heard a buck come through blowing like crazy about 40 yards from me and thought he was busting another hunter but it was me he busted. I don’t think thermals are super complicated to understand once you get the hang of it but how to hunt hubs and be in the right place when thermals switch is still a challenge for me.

I’ll be honest and come clean, I don’t understand that stuff either and don’t pay any attention to it I was just breaking his chops because people on here are always talking about balloons and all they (balloons) do is piss me off because I hate seeing trash in the woods!