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Hamskea rest cord: vectran core/polyester cover 2mm cord: how to keep cover from slipping?

raisins

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My rest activation cord on Hamskea keeps creeping just enough to bug me and not have my rest raise and lower precisely at where I want in the draw cycle. It's because I have a Bowtech, and the limbs on those hardly move. So, you have to put the cord at the very limb tip and it has to be pretty tight.

Well, BCY 24 polyester d loop doesn't like being under 10 or 20 lbs of pressure at all times. It creeps just a little, but this has a larger than you'd think effect on rest drop timing.

So, I decided to go with the king of no creep fibers, vectran. But I wanted a covered rope for abrasion resistance and so knots and cord locks don't slip on a slick UHMW type fiber (vectran). I found what might be the perfect stuff: it's for sailing and from Marlow. It's 2 mm diameter with vectran core and polyester cover. Vectran is what they put in BCY 452 and 454 to keep it low creep, but it is also what gets fuzzy on these strings over time (a reason I want it covered).

But now I'm worried that the vectran might not creep....but the cover might slip.

Anyone have experience on this type of rope, where the cover and core can totally separate, and any ideas on how to keep it zero creep? Or is this even an issue in use?

I'm thinking:

1. tie it to my bow press and expand the press arms to stretch it and leave over night, this should stretch the cover to the vectran
2. release tension, tie knots on the ends of the piece I'm going to use (3 foot section?) and then tie back to the press but to the sides of the knots (overhand knots visible each side of press right interior to fingers, so you are tightening knots and cord), tighten and leave overnight to stretch, this will tighten my knots and hopefully lock everything together as a unit
3. attach to my rest with the overhand knots intact to keep the cover and core together, remove the extra knots after I'm happy with it (if I start with too long of a piece,then those overhand knots will be dangling on my tag ends and I'll just snip them off and then finish my ends with maybe an overhand knot and then melt or glue the ends to keep from fraying (don't know if vectran melts good)
 
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Squirrels

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My Hamskea trinitys use to cause me the same pains.
I think your problem could be solved much easier. Ditch the cord clamp and tie a prussic. Bites very well and easy to tighten up as the cord stretches.
I also bought the rebound dampener conversion kit. Ditches that stupid spring.
 

raisins

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My Hamskea trinitys use to cause me the same pains.
I think your problem could be solved much easier. Ditch the cord clamp and tie a prussic. Bites very well and easy to tighten up as the cord stretches.
I also bought the rebound dampener conversion kit. Ditches that stupid spring.
I already have the dampener and running it. I also have a blake's hitch that is backed up with the cord clamp for redundancy.

The cord is creeping enough that you only see it on a draw board. Hamskea says it operates optimally if the rest is up for 1/2 the power stroke (21" power stroke on my bow with 30" draw, so I need rest up at 10.5"). It creeps to where it is up for 12.5", then I fix it and it keeps happening again and again. This happens in one day. If I left it for a season, I'm not sure how far it would stretch and if it would start shooting funny. With a bowtech and the way you set it up (based upon Hamskea advice), even like 1/32" to 1/16" creep will change where the rest raises by several inches.

It still shoots okay, but you can probably tell that I like it when my equipment doesn't move around from what I set it at.

I've put witness marks everywhere (silver sharpie) and I'm sure it is the BCY 24 creeping.
 
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Brocky

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The cover shouldn’t slip if tied or clamped, the slippery core is more likely to, Vectran and Dyneema have been known to slip out knots, coming out of their covers.
 

raisins

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The cover shouldn’t slip if tied or clamped, the slippery core is more likely to, Vectran and Dyneema have been known to slip out knots, coming out of their covers.
I guess that's what I'm worried about. The cover and core act like independent units and I don't get the no creep feature out of it as a result. Is that valid?

I'm planning on attaching the cord to the bottom limb using a scaffold knot (2 turns). Then the cord goes through the lever on the rest and back down onto itself. I'll attach it back to itself using a Blake's hitch. I used 4 turns on the hitch before, but might do 6 to make sure the cover and core are as mixed up with each other as possible (if that makes sense from a knot tying perspective). I can slide the Blake's up and down to set timing. Then above the Blake's, I plan to put a cord clamp and really tighten it down as hard as possible without stripping the little allen bolt.

I'm expecting it might creep a bit until I hit where the vectran is in charge and then I hope it will last a season.

Can you think of a way to improve my proposed method?
 

Brocky

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Putting some stitches on the ends of the cord will lock them together. Vectran doesn’t melt like the aramids, cut off some of the core and milk it back in and melt the empty cover.
 

woodsdog2

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My rest activation cord on Hamskea keeps creeping just enough to bug me and not have my rest raise and lower precisely at where I want in the draw cycle. It's because I have a Bowtech, and the limbs on those hardly move. So, you have to put the cord at the very limb tip and it has to be pretty tight.

Well, BCY 24 polyester d loop doesn't like being under 10 or 20 lbs of pressure at all times. It creeps just a little, but this has a larger than you'd think effect on rest drop timing.

So, I decided to go with the king of no creep fibers, vectran. But I wanted a covered rope for abrasion resistance and so knots and cord locks don't slip on a slick UHMW type fiber (vectran). I found what might be the perfect stuff: it's for sailing and from Marlow. It's 2 mm diameter with vectran core and polyester cover. Vectran is what they put in BCY 452 and 454 to keep it low creep, but it is also what gets fuzzy on these strings over time (a reason I want it covered).

But now I'm worried that the vectran might not creep....but the cover might slip.

Anyone have experience on this type of rope, where the cover and core can totally separate, and any ideas on how to keep it zero creep? Or is this even an issue in use?

I'm thinking:

1. tie it to my bow press and expand the press arms to stretch it and leave over night, this should stretch the cover to the vectran
2. release tension, tie knots on the ends of the piece I'm going to use (3 foot section?) and then tie back to the press but to the sides of the knots (overhand knots visible each side of press right interior to fingers, so you are tightening knots and cord), tighten and leave overnight to stretch, this will tighten my knots and hopefully lock everything together as a unit
3. attach to my rest with the overhand knots intact to keep the cover and core together, remove the extra knots after I'm happy with it (if I start with too long of a piece,then those overhand knots will be dangling on my tag ends and I'll just snip them off and then finish my ends with maybe an overhand knot and then melt or glue the ends to keep from fraying (don't know if vectran melts good)
I haven't used it for limb driven rest purposes but I use it all the time for my d loop's. I buy the BCY crossbow cocking rope cord and use it for my dloops and it is very robust with minimal stretch. Has a peak weight rating of 100lbs. too and I believe very little stretch compared to d loop material. Just a suggestion. You can buy it bulk from BSS I think.
 

raisins

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Putting some stitches on the ends of the cord will lock them together. Vectran doesn’t melt like the aramids, cut off some of the core and milk it back in and melt the empty cover.
Got it today. Can confirm. Vectran burns like cotton. Really weird to see a high tech rope do that.
 

neonomad

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What about the spectra covered #23… Im not a materials nerd but isn’t it supposed to be durable / lower stretch?
 

raisins

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What about the spectra covered #23… Im not a materials nerd but isn’t it supposed to be durable / lower stretch?
Thanks for the idea. Spectra is definitely lower stretch/creep than polyester or nylon, but vectran has less stretch/creep. Vectran is what they put in several dyneema bowstrings to stop creep. I believe spectra and dyneema are very similar.
 

Squirrels

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I failed to mention in my post above that I am using the #23 as my cordage. Maybe the combination of the #23, rebound dampner, and prussic is would alleviate the problem?
 
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raisins

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I failed to mention in my post above that I am using the #23 as my cordage. Maybe the combination of the #23, rebound dampner, and prussic is what's keeping the stretch out.
I think it's also that I'm one of the few people crazy enough to check on a draw board and not be simply satisfied by excellent flight. I want to set that sucker and have it not move at all, even if it isn't causing any real issue at the time. But the BCY 23 is better than the 24, in terms of creep. I went with 24 at first because I liked that it was thicker and rougher (hold knots and hitches better). I didn't think it would be so stretchy, especially after I pre-stretched it. I use 23 for my d loops and it is great stuff.
 

RamBam

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Have you tried the little slide plate with oring on the spring mount ? I initially had a little stretch but they have all settled in for me. The primer I just got took a long time to settle using the rubber dampener.
 

raisins

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Have you tried the little slide plate with oring on the spring mount ? I initially had a little stretch but they have all settled in for me. The primer I just got took a long time to settle using the rubber dampener.
You mean the spring that comes with it stock that attaches to the lever arm of the rest? I used it for a while before switching to the rubber dampener.

I put silver sharpie witness marks above and below the dampener on the cord. I was thinking if it stretched then I should see the silver sharpie marks move in relation to the edges of the dampener, but I could be wrong there.
 

neonomad

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I think it's also that I'm one of the few people crazy enough to check on a draw board and not be simply satisfied by excellent flight. I want to set that sucker and have it not move at all, even if it isn't causing any real issue at the time. But the BCY 23 is better than the 24, in terms of creep. I went with 24 at first because I liked that it was thicker and rougher (hold knots and hitches better). I didn't think it would be so stretchy, especially after I pre-stretched it. I use 23 for my d loops and it is great stuff.
This seems reasonable, since who knows how sensitive arrow flight / tune is to rest timing. Now I’m wondering how much stretch I’ll get in the #24 over time, gonna have to keep an eye on it. Gonna have to get more serious about my search for a shorter spool of #23.
 

raisins

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This seems reasonable, since who knows how sensitive arrow flight / tune is to rest timing. Now I’m wondering how much stretch I’ll get in the #24 over time, gonna have to keep an eye on it. Gonna have to get more serious about my search for a shorter spool of #23.
You can get 23 by the foot at Lancaster Archery for pretty cheap.
 

RamBam

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You mean the spring that comes with it stock that attaches to the lever arm of the rest? I used it for a while before switching to the rubber dampener.

I put silver sharpie witness marks above and below the dampener on the cord. I was thinking if it stretched then I should see the silver sharpie marks move in relation to the edges of the dampener, but I could be wrong there.
If you have a older rest that came with a clamp then you should try the updated cord. It still uses the spring but also it uses a tiny plate with two holes and a groove. It’s basically a mini snare lock. The rubber oring keeps it locked. I removed the oring and just used some serving material to make it permanent.

edit : hamskea refers to it as the easy glide clamp
 

raisins

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If you have a older rest that came with a clamp then you should try the updated cord. It still uses the spring but also it uses a tiny plate with two holes and a groove. It’s basically a mini snare lock. The rubber oring keeps it locked. I removed the oring and just used some serving material to make it permanent.

edit : hamskea refers to it as the easy glide clamp
i have it and used it a bit

i'm now using a blake's hitch backed up with the old school cord clamp

i do think some of what i am seeing is due to the rubber dampener settling over time while under tension

if the spring wasn't louder, i'd probably use it instead
 

Squirrels

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654DB06A-06E2-4B23-BC2D-A82DA76CDFA6.jpegYou might omit the clamp as backup and tie a constrictor knot with some serving. Just something to try, you can get it tight, tight, tight.
 
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