Let's talk Saddle Comfort

[d_rek]

Hi Everyone,

I've been hunting exclusively out of a trophyline ts9 stealth saddle (neoprene) this season in Michigan. I have been out 1-2 times per week since the bow season opened on Oct. 1st, and have been out every day this week so far (4 sits).

So the thing I want to talk about is comfort. I would have thought that at almost a dozen+ sits I would have more comfort dialed in. Wrong. The most frequent issue is hip/lower back discomfort. The other persistent issue is foot pressure discomfort.

I have found there are a lot of little things that can affect comfort level. Wearing a belt on my pants will cause additional 'squeeze' on my hips. Wearing insulated vs. non-insulated hunting gear. Tree strap height. Wearing knee pads. Etc.

Just when I think I am getting my comfort level dialed in after about an hour that inevitable 'squeeze' sets in on my hips, causing me to frequently readjust saddle either lower or higher on my back.The most comfortable spot is when it's cradling my ass, at or below end of buttcrack level. This way it's almost like sitting on a playground swing. But still after a while discomfort will set in, and I find myself frequently re-adjusting.

Foot discomfort is mostly due to one of two things: too narrow of platform base (ie: metal tree steps) or uneven elevation of feet. Since using my ameristep plastic straps ons this issue has mostly gone away, but every now and then I will find that if one foot is lower than the other there will be discomfort on one of the feet.

At this point I think I am more in love with the concept of saddle hunting than actual saddle hunting. I am wondering, and am looking for opinions from users with firsthand experience, if upgrading to a new tribe aero hunter would help alleviate some of my comfort issues. The saddle I have is in excellent condition (used literally 1 season) and I would be willing to sell for a reasonable price - if the upgrade made sense. There are other things I do not like about the neoprene saddle also (not comrpessable, can be somewhat noisy when walking in against certain materials), and am not totally 'in love' with this particular saddle.

Looking for thoughts/opinions. Aero hunter, guidos web? Help?

Regards,
d_rek

 

[Matty]

d_rek,

I experienced a lot of what you're saying, but found that most of this can be overcome.

There was a point I almost gave up on the saddle, but I kept coming back to it and trying to figure out ways to remedy my issues. I still occasionally get pissed if I feel like it prevented me from getting a shot or if I'm in a tree where it's really difficult to get comfy. Sometimes I think it's easier to rotate on a stand when deer are in close than it is to try and swing around the tree, so sometimes I think that's a big downside, but I continue to come back to the saddle year after year.

Now adays, I can get comfortable enough to do all day sits in the saddle and many of my recent all day hanging marathons are on nothing more than tree bolts for a platform.

Foot comfort has a lot to do with level steps, but also if the tree has lean, it will pull you onto one foot more. You'll notice some trees kind of want to swing you one way or another. That always sucks. Sometimes I compromise between where I want to be facing, and where is more comfortable to face. When crunch time comes though, I'll suck it up and position myself the way I think I need to be.

Foot comfort also has a lot to do with boots, but they aren't a cure all. The angle at which you're sitting might be most important. It's one of the reasons I usually put my tree strap higher than head height. The lower it is, the more I'm just "leaning" instead of sitting on the saddle. Which can be comfortable for a little while, but eventually my feet will kill me when my strap is low.

I have also started using more steps around the tree, so that I can often stand on two with each foot. That helps alleviate foot pain a great deal, and makes maneuvering around for shots easier.

As for back issues, I first tried remedying lower back discomfort with a back brace while in the saddle. It worked, but it was annoying. Now I actually use my linemans belt as a back rest. I have carabiners on both sides so I can completely detach it. Once I'm settled in, I flip it over, tighten it up to a pair of sharpie lines I drew on it and clip it around behind me (back to the lineman loops). I use the sharpie lines as a reference of where I need the strap to be for good back support. I can reach behind me and tighten or loosen if need be though. That has helped lower back discomfort a ton. Really ups the comfort level for me.

I've found that most comfort issues come down to adjusting the way you're sitting/standing. I try to find a position that allows me to sort of switch weight from butt to feet with as little movement as possible.

I've never really experienced the hip pinch you mentioned, so I can't really help on that one.

I have the same neoprene saddle you do I think.

 

[Matty]

Oh yeah, and for me, knee pads are a MUST.

I tried getting away without them for a couple years, then tried cheap ones. Finally I went with trophyline knee pads, using the hard shell. Helps me a lot. Sometimes I can get in a weird position where almost all the pressure is on just one knee and my butt a little bit....It's actually comfy, but difficult to describe. In any case, knee pads, I never leave home without them.

 

[redsquirrel]

Hi Everyone,

I've been hunting exclusively out of a trophyline ts9 stealth saddle (neoprene) this season in Michigan. I have been out 1-2 times per week since the bow season opened on Oct. 1st, and have been out every day this week so far (4 sits).

So the thing I want to talk about is comfort. I would have thought that at almost a dozen+ sits I would have more comfort dialed in. Wrong. The most frequent issue is hip/lower back discomfort. The other persistent issue is foot pressure discomfort.

I have found there are a lot of little things that can affect comfort level. Wearing a belt on my pants will cause additional 'squeeze' on my hips. Wearing insulated vs. non-insulated hunting gear. Tree strap height. Wearing knee pads. Etc.

Just when I think I am getting my comfort level dialed in after about an hour that inevitable 'squeeze' sets in on my hips, causing me to frequently readjust saddle either lower or higher on my back.The most comfortable spot is when it's cradling my ass, at or below end of buttcrack level. This way it's almost like sitting on a playground swing. But still after a while discomfort will set in, and I find myself frequently re-adjusting.

Foot discomfort is mostly due to one of two things: too narrow of platform base (ie: metal tree steps) or uneven elevation of feet. Since using my ameristep plastic straps ons this issue has mostly gone away, but every now and then I will find that if one foot is lower than the other there will be discomfort on one of the feet.

At this point I think I am more in love with the concept of saddle hunting than actual saddle hunting. I am wondering, and am looking for opinions from users with firsthand experience, if upgrading to a new tribe aero hunter would help alleviate some of my comfort issues. The saddle I have is in excellent condition (used literally 1 season) and I would be willing to sell for a reasonable price - if the upgrade made sense. There are other things I do not like about the neoprene saddle also (not comrpessable, can be somewhat noisy when walking in against certain materials), and am not totally 'in love' with this particular saddle.

Looking for thoughts/opinions. Aero hunter, guidos web? Help?

Regards,
d_rek

Ok, I will try to address some of these issues. If I miss anything or you have more questions just ask.

I have never had lower back comfort with the tree saddle. I did frequently have pinching around the hips. I like to wear the saddle low. I never wear it high as this caused discomfort... but the saddle liked to slide up high from time to time and needed to be readjusted. That was always my biggest issue with the saddle.

I have not had many problems with foot discomfort. I'm not sure if it is being caused by how you are distributing your weight. Maybe you have too much pressure on your feet? Maybe try putting your tree strap higher so it cups your butt more and allowing you to put more pressure on the saddle and just use your feet for positioning and stability?

I started out with a neoprene saddle and quickly switched to the ambush mesh model. I liked this one a lot better. Smaller, less bulky, just less going on. I think the aero hunter is a huge upgrade on this model as it distributes the weight more evenly making it more comfortable. It is also small and not bulky as well.

Matty makes a lot of great points below as well (see my comments in bold). You really have to learn how to get set up where you will be able to be comfortable. I still have trees that I will get into and be like, what was I thinking, and have to readjust something. I have done anywhere from 5-15 all day sits every year for the past 5 years. This year I have already put 6 all day sits in my aero hunter and it has been very comfortable.

d_rek,

I experienced a lot of what you're saying, but found that most of this can be overcome.

There was a point I almost gave up on the saddle, but I kept coming back to it and trying to figure out ways to remedy my issues. I still occasionally get pissed if I feel like it prevented me from getting a shot or if I'm in a tree where it's really difficult to get comfy. Sometimes I think it's easier to rotate on a stand when deer are in close than it is to try and swing around the tree, so sometimes I think that's a big downside, but I continue to come back to the saddle year after year.

Now adays, I can get comfortable enough to do all day sits in the saddle and many of my recent all day hanging marathons are on nothing more than tree bolts for a platform.

Foot comfort has a lot to do with level steps, but also if the tree has lean, it will pull you onto one foot more. You'll notice some trees kind of want to swing you one way or another. That always sucks. Sometimes I compromise between where I want to be facing, and where is more comfortable to face. When crunch time comes though, I'll suck it up and position myself the way I think I need to be.I always lean into the tree. I find that large trees are better if they have less lean, smaller trees with lots of lean are easier to deal with.

Foot comfort also has a lot to do with boots, but they aren't a cure all. The angle at which you're sitting might be most important. It's one of the reasons I usually put my tree strap higher than head height. The lower it is, the more I'm just "leaning" instead of sitting on the saddle. Which can be comfortable for a little while, but eventually my feet will kill me when my strap is low. x2

I have also started using more steps around the tree, so that I can often stand on two with each foot. That helps alleviate foot pain a great deal, and makes maneuvering around for shots easier. I don't use 2 steps for a foot, but I never compromise on how many steps I place. It is anywhere from 5-7 depending on the size of the tree. I always want a step to be where I need it.

As for back issues, I first tried remedying lower back discomfort with a back brace while in the saddle. It worked, but it was annoying. Now I actually use my linemans belt as a back rest. I have carabiners on both sides so I can completely detach it. Once I'm settled in, I flip it over, tighten it up to a pair of sharpie lines I drew on it and clip it around behind me (back to the lineman loops). I use the sharpie lines as a reference of where I need the strap to be for good back support. I can reach behind me and tighten or loosen if need be though. That has helped lower back discomfort a ton. Really ups the comfort level for me.This sounds very similar to what Boswell is using the new tribe support strap for.

I've found that most comfort issues come down to adjusting the way you're sitting/standing. I try to find a position that allows me to sort of switch weight from butt to feet with as little movement as possible. I agree. Every tree is different and you have to work on finding the right spot for that tree.

I've never really experienced the hip pinch you mentioned, so I can't really help on that one.

I have the same neoprene saddle you do I think.

 

[thumbarcher]

Try standing on the bottom steps of a single muddy stick for your platform. I use soft knee pads which rest against the top steps of the stick, that way I'm typically sitting with 50% of my weight on my butt, 25% on my feet, and 25% on my knees. The really nice thing though is I can redistribute my weight with almost no movement, even taking all my weight off my feet. I'm 5'9" so I don't know if this will work well for someone that's really tall, however for someone my size I think it's the best thing going. Just put your ameristeps or screw ins around the tree about half way between your top and bottom step, that way you step up to walk around the tree and you instantly have more line from your tie in to get around the tree. Resting your knees against a flat surface helps so much beçause your knees don't want to separate, the way they want to against the roundness of a tree.

 

[rr79]

Hunted for years with a trophyline. Just not comfortable at all. My new rig is like nite and day difference. I dont need to much comfort. If i wanted to be comfy i would sit on the couch. But the trophyline was brutal.

 

[Bowhunter0_0]

Rr79, what are you using now? Aerohunter?

 

[rr79]

No i made my own rig. But that aero hunter looks nice. Mine is a vest harness with a swing seat attached to leg straps. Swing seat is the rubber belt type at the park and its wrapped in neoprene with padding inside. Sounds funny but i love it.

 

[d_rek]

All the feedback has been great. I really appreciate it.

I feel like i've tried pretty much everything I can to eliminate discomfort with the trophyline saddle and it just isn't happening - most of the tips have come directly from this forum and from youtube videos. I'm pretty sure i'm going to sell my trophyline saddle and upgrade to an aerohunter. Hopefully i'll be able to dial an aerohunter in for my body type a little better. For the record I am 6'4', 225lbs, long legs, torso, and arms, and somewhat athletic. I played a few sports in high school, have done jui jitsu on and off for the past several years, occasionally hike some foot trails at state parks around me, and have weight lifted and done cardio exercise with some regularity for most of my adult life. Having a desk job and being a family man (along with a healthy appetite for craft beer) have definitely made me a little softer around the midsection, but I was never a regular adonis to begin with.

I'll be sure to post my saddle in the classifieds here - probably next week sometime after I get back from deer camp.

It's a Large Trophyline TS9 Stealth Saddle (Neoprene). It comes with with the original trophyline treestrap, has an attached linemans belt w/ caribineer, and two snap-on gear pouches: Two 'cupholder' pouches for storing the linemans belt and a zippered bag for the tree stap. It's only been used 1 season and is still in great condition. If anyone is interested PM me.

 

[redsquirrel]

I was thinking of your issues while in the tree yesterday. I think you may be too upright, especially if your avatar is how you are most of the time. (This all applies even if you get an aero hunter). Try lengthening your tree strap to put more weight on your butt, this will take weight off your feet. I have hunted on the same steps you use since I started with a saddle and I don't have any problems with them. When I am sitting in the saddle, if I let my knees rest on the tree (i am like this most of the time hence the importance of knee pads) my thighs are probably somewhere between 100-110 degrees if you call them perpendicular to the tree 90.

 

[d_rek]

I think you may be too upright, especially if your avatar is how you are most of the time.

The picture of my avatar is me standing in the saddle. The picture may be misleading as to how I spend 90% of my time in the saddle, and the angle looks a little more obtuse on the bridge than it normally is for me. I generally "sit" down into it, and my knees usually slightly above a 90 degree perpendicular to the tree. I do wear kneepads as when I sit i too rest them against the tree.

I usually do an arms-length above the head tree strap tie off as that seems to provide the most flexibility for readjusting. I experimented with the tree strap at head and eye level but the problem there is you are already sitting pretty low at that point, and can't really adjust your tree strap to bring you 'higher' if needed. I found the problem of a low tree strap tie off exacerbated by using the new tribe rope-style tree strap because you can only adjust where the prussic knot attaches to the tree strap rope and not the actual length of the prussic knot rope. Whereas with the trophyline strap you could adjust the strap as long or short as you liked.

I still prefer the rope-style strap for ease of setup, and have since tied off the prussic knot rope a little shorter than it came from the factory (although putting weight on it will cause any hand-tied knots to tighten considerably and your length will be similar to factory length).

 

[Wensel]

It's funny you mention the Blake's hitch on the tree strap, my buddy and I both hunt out of the evo.
He bummed my tree strap and complained of some discomfort compared to his. After we chatted we investigated and found my length between the Blake and the fig 8 on a bight was longer than his.
I see some guys trying the Petzel ascenders, I think that would certainly give you the most flexibility with that particular adjustment.
Good thread!!!

 

[redsquirrel]

Yea guys, I wasn't a fan of using the blakes hitch. I use my web strap mostly, but when I use the rope I liked it way better with the ropeman ascender. I also switched to a fixed length bridge because I didn't like the blakes hitch once I found the length bridge I liked.