They can't mention it on their website because there is not a standard for testing saddles yet. They are working with other saddle manufacturers to come up with a standard. They are not doing destructive testing. They are trying to come up with test based on saddle hunting and what the human body can actually handle. Then giving the saddle a pass or fail.
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Oplux Bridge with Amsteel Prusiks
- Thread starter skyjacker
- Start date
Amsteel is obviously really strong, and not going to break under normal circumstances, with properly adjusted and maintained gear. If there's a risk, it would be if e.g. using a prusik with a marginal number of wraps, or dealing with an icy rope, or other such marginal situations that wouldn't show up in an "ideal" test environment. In short - dyneema is awesome right until it isn't. A slippage issue that only happens 1% of the time, or .1% or .01% could easily be dangerous in the field but difficult to reproduce in testing. Cord with a higher melting point would mitigate this issue.
I agree a higher melting point would be better. So would thicker, wider, stronger webbing. Using screamers on our tethers would be better. What about steel carabiners? At some point we have to weigh what is safe enough. There will always be a margin of error. A seat belt will keep you safe until it damages your internal organs. But hey you didn't get ejected from the vehicle, just died from internal bleeding. Innovation is not going to stop and testing will get better. Tethrd, Cruzr, H2, and Latitude all have Amsteel in their bridges. Testing must have gone good enough to put these bridges on their saddles. Enough so that they are willing to put their lively hood on it. Just my take on it.
They (and their insurers).
Honestly - I probably wouldn't do it, but mostly because I don't want to and feel like amsteel is overrated. I don't like amsteel bridges (primarily due to the bury bump). Used properly as a bridge I don't really see much of an issue as long as it catches consistently. And 5mm tech cord as mentioned has its own issues (strength reduction from repeated bending).
And when failure modes are potentially catastrophic and sneaky (like friction heating and failure of a super-strong rope) it's well worth having the discussion of how any why any failure would happen, so people can make their own choices rather than parroting others.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2019
- Messages
- 6,265
I think you are setting up a false dichotomy because everything you listed have easily identifiable downsides (for instance, steel carabiners are like 5 times as heavy and also aluminum 'biners have been thoroughly tested by major manufacturers in the same setting we are discussing and are adequate with documented properties) while a switch away from amsteel on a bridge to something safer has nearly no signficant downside beside being a bit clunkier with the knotting.
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New Tribe is pretty well established in both markets.
Amsteel as a fixed bridge I see as no worse than a dyneema sling and probably a bit better, except I dislike the bury bumps. I'm not sold on it as a great choice for friction hitches, but don't care that much. I tend to defer to the recommendations of e.g. companies like Beal, who make a 5mm 100% dyneema accessory cord, and specify not for use with self-locking knots. That's the closest thing in the climbing world to amsteel, and the guidance is quite clear. I think it's probably likely to be OK, but it's not "recommended" and as I don't love the result anyway I don't care to pursue it.
For those who might be interested, more refs on amsteel as a friction hitch:
ThereWillBeSpuds
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2019
- Messages
- 648
You can buy technora 12 strand braided ropes that can be spliced like amsteel but have a much higher melting point, so even the knots point is kinda bunk.
People just like amsteel, someone who just learned about amsteel is like someone with a brand new hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.