Scent Control Debate?????

[kenn1320]

That is, after all, the goal. I was honestly a bit offended that someone would question my conclusions, but I had to remind myself that we often do not know each other beyond this forum, and it isn't worth getting worked up just because someone who has never done something doesn't believe that I or others have done it and are doing it regularly.

There is no reason to get offended, it was discussion about a topic that I have done research on. To say I have never done it is a false assumption on your part. Remember Im from Michigan, met John years ago and followed his advice. I even took it further by not eating meat for 3 months prior to season and of course during season. I stopped using cologne for those 3 months as well. I didnt have the same experience of bust free hunts. On the other hand Ive had deer not bust me doing nothing, just some things you cant explain. Jim Brauker is a true believer in minimizing his scent signature, wears at least 3 scentlok garmets each hunt, purposely bathes and uses carbon dust on his skin, Im sure you have seen his video I posted. HE goes above and beyond Johns routine, including worrying about where he steps while getting dressed. He still gets busted, has video of it. He says the suit leaks, you cant stop 100% of your scent from leaving. If your having better success than him, more power to you.
Here is a video I made using my cell phone. I was walking out turkey hunting and saw a group of deer and made a couple turkey calls jokingly and stood still. No scentlok, no nothing. I wasnt even next to a tree. The deer licks me, I cant explain it, can you?

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v492/kenn1320/Archery/510_zps1ce1d1a4.mp4

 

[imphedup]

That is, after all, the goal. I was honestly a bit offended that someone would question my conclusions, but I had to remind myself that we often do not know each other beyond this forum, and it isn't worth getting worked up just because someone who has never done something doesn't believe that I or others have done it and are doing it regularly.

There is no reason to get offended, it was discussion about a topic that I have done research on. To say I have never done it is a false assumption on your part. Remember Im from Michigan, met John years ago and followed his advice. I even took it further by not eating meat for 3 months prior to season and of course during season. I stopped using cologne for those 3 months as well. I didnt have the same experience of bust free hunts. On the other hand Ive had deer not bust me doing nothing, just some things you cant explain. Jim Brauker is a true believer in minimizing his scent signature, wears at least 3 scentlok garmets each hunt, purposely bathes and uses carbon dust on his skin, Im sure you have seen his video I posted. HE goes above and beyond Johns routine, including worrying about where he steps while getting dressed. He still gets busted, has video of it. He says the suit leaks, you cant stop 100% of your scent from leaving. If your having better success than him, more power to you.
Here is a video I made using my cell phone. I was walking out turkey hunting and saw a group of deer and made a couple turkey calls jokingly and stood still. No scentlok, no nothing. I wasnt even next to a tree. The deer licks me, I cant explain it, can you?

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v492/kenn1320/Archery/510_zps1ce1d1a4.mp4

Deer whisper


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[imphedup]

Not to get total off topic, as I haven't used scent lok in 10years. But I started using it when the first undergarment suits were made then stopped. But they made nothing warm enough or that's windproof. Anyone used the vortex or covert suit, how are they for wind and warmth?


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[essdub]

I'm in favor of maximizing my chances. To an extent. I use and will continue to use scent lok products and even plan on increasing my usage and discipline concerning scent control.
But I don't want to get to the point where I'm only following a procedure. I lost interest in hunting for several years ten or so years ago and it took a while for me to find a way to enjoy the experience again . I love the woods and the animals we seek. This year I got tired of gun hunting again after using several firearms through most of this season. I've been transitioning between compound, recurve, and long bow for a couple seasons and feel myself becoming more and more pulled toward traditional equipment. I believe that it's because of the total experience and not only the successful kill. Maybe as I'm getting older I see things as more than success vs failure. I like to think that hunting can be (and for me, maybe should be) as much an art as it is a science.
So where did that leave me? I appreciate the advantage that scent control and all the great gear we have access to give me in the woods. I plan to use this gear and possibly much more gear, that I don't have or even know about, in the coming years. But I want to enjoy my hunting experiences also. I want to reconnect in a meaningful way with myself and nature and appreciate all of Creation and contemplate my place among thousands of years worth of human hunters.
That may all sound touchy feely or a little too "je ne sais pas", but it's real for me and I suspect I'm not that unique. Other than the fact that I'm the only person I personally know who doesn't own a tv, I'm quite ordinary and average.
So to me the point of all the scent control stuff is: it'll help me when I'm too busy smelling the roses to notice that I'm not hunting properly. So I'll use it. Maybe I'll even continue to kill a few deer during my "flowery, artsy fartsy picnic feel good touchy feely" hunts. But I swear, after reading this post, If I start wearing pink camo, someone please push me out of my tree

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[essdub]

Re: RE: Re: Scent Control Debate?????

That is, after all, the goal. I was honestly a bit offended that someone would question my conclusions, but I had to remind myself that we often do not know each other beyond this forum, and it isn't worth getting worked up just because someone who has never done something doesn't believe that I or others have done it and are doing it regularly.

There is no reason to get offended, it was discussion about a topic that I have done research on. To say I have never done it is a false assumption on your part. Remember Im from Michigan, met John years ago and followed his advice. I even took it further by not eating meat for 3 months prior to season and of course during season. I stopped using cologne for those 3 months as well. I didnt have the same experience of bust free hunts. On the other hand Ive had deer not bust me doing nothing, just some things you cant explain. Jim Brauker is a true believer in minimizing his scent signature, wears at least 3 scentlok garmets each hunt, purposely bathes and uses carbon dust on his skin, Im sure you have seen his video I posted. HE goes above and beyond Johns routine, including worrying about where he steps while getting dressed. He still gets busted, has video of it. He says the suit leaks, you cant stop 100% of your scent from leaving. If your having better success than him, more power to you.
Here is a video I made using my cell phone. I was walking out turkey hunting and saw a group of deer and made a couple turkey calls jokingly and stood still. No scentlok, no nothing. I wasnt even next to a tree. The deer licks me, I cant explain it, can you?

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v492/kenn1320/Archery/510_zps1ce1d1a4.mp4

That's an awesome video. Reminds me of the big Tom turkey that came walking through my front yard the day after turkey season ended. While my neighbor and I were sighting in a rifle and shooting every firearm we had. The turkey walked within five yards or so from the two of us while we were reloading magazines. That was the day after turkey season ended. I hunted my property several times a week and I could sometimes see Turkeys and often I could hear them. But I didn't shoot a turkey at all. I'm not one of those guys who claims that animals know about hunting seasons or what not, but maybe they can sense whether or not we're a threat (?)...

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[g2outdoors]

Re: RE: Re: Scent Control Debate?????

That is, after all, the goal. I was honestly a bit offended that someone would question my conclusions, but I had to remind myself that we often do not know each other beyond this forum, and it isn't worth getting worked up just because someone who has never done something doesn't believe that I or others have done it and are doing it regularly.

There is no reason to get offended, it was discussion about a topic that I have done research on. To say I have never done it is a false assumption on your part. Remember Im from Michigan, met John years ago and followed his advice. I even took it further by not eating meat for 3 months prior to season and of course during season. I stopped using cologne for those 3 months as well. I didnt have the same experience of bust free hunts. On the other hand Ive had deer not bust me doing nothing, just some things you cant explain. Jim Brauker is a true believer in minimizing his scent signature, wears at least 3 scentlok garmets each hunt, purposely bathes and uses carbon dust on his skin, Im sure you have seen his video I posted. HE goes above and beyond Johns routine, including worrying about where he steps while getting dressed. He still gets busted, has video of it. He says the suit leaks, you cant stop 100% of your scent from leaving. If your having better success than him, more power to you.
Here is a video I made using my cell phone. I was walking out turkey hunting and saw a group of deer and made a couple turkey calls jokingly and stood still. No scentlok, no nothing. I wasnt even next to a tree. The deer licks me, I cant explain it, can you?

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v492/kenn1320/Archery/510_zps1ce1d1a4.mp4

Great video!

 

[jtkratzer]

What are thoughts on cover scent? I've heard about a lot of people using smoke on everything they take to the field. I've seen the scent wafers and all sorts of other things, ozonics, etc.

I'm thinking about trying the smoke cover scent. Way cheaper to try than the carbon clothing. I do the best I can having a house with kids and pets to use the hunting clothing wash, air/dry outside, spray down before heading into the woods, but I mostly hunt small patches of woods with travel routes near residential areas and the deer are at least familiar with the sights and sounds of people, dogs barking, etc. There are other hunters on properties in the area and it's Pennsylvania. Just haven't seen deer bust me, even hunting from the ground, and I've had some young deer get within 8-10 feet of me. Wind is generally consistent and in my favor.

I'm far from an experienced or accomplished bowhunter at this point, only hunting the last two years and tagging one each year. Looking to improve on how often and how many bigger deer and bucks I see.

 

[essdub]

I actually make my own and use them to augment or supplement my scent control gear.
I usually just take whatever is in the area I am hunting. Like when I'm hunting in the area where my blackberries are in early season I will use pieces of the vines and leaves and boil them down a couple times in distilled or rain water to make a spray. I'll do the same thing with oak leaves, acorns and branches when I'll be hunting in that area. I'll use fruit tree clippings, leaves and fallen fruit to do the same when hunting near my trees. You get the idea. Whatever vegetation is near your site. They were pretty effective before I started using scent lok. Now I mostly use them if I start to sweat (along with scent eliminating wipes and spray) and on my climbing spurs (along with the wipes and scent spray). I'll use the home made sprays when I think they'll help. I still make them, maybe as much a habit as anything else.

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[John Eberhart]

loosanarrow wrote:

My contributions to the "debate" were intended to let people know that after over over thirty years of being winded almost daily while deer hunting, I went a whole season only being winded once, and on that evening I wore street clothes and did not even shower.

My purpose was to just give my testimony that it works... like a charm, in fact. It really never occurred to me when I posted that anyone would try to explain it away as my error or misperception. In fact, I was stunned by the posts intended to call into question what was blatantly obvious to me - posts that were complete with explanations of what possible factors might be deceiving me... or something like that. And posts that cited articles about what a dog could do - well done studies, no doubt, but nothing can trump deer not smelling me for an entire season. That is, after all, the goal. I was honestly a bit offended that someone would question my conclusions, but I had to remind myself that we often do not know each other beyond this forum, and it isn't worth getting worked up just because someone who has never done something doesn't believe that I or others have done it and are doing it regularly. I can only imagine what stories you might have of people who are sure you are a liar or that you are not competent to even know if you are being winded... In the end though, I just smile and remind myself that fewer people using this tool means more deer, and especially more mature antlers, for me... I have done what I can and been true the spirit of honesty and full disclosure of what I think is the most valuable (and advantage multiplying) of any deer hunting tool or technology - after the factor of having a serviceable weapon of course. In fact, with the level of scent control I am at, I almost daily have deer directly under me that never do alert, so I could easily kill them with a spear as my "serviceable weapon".



response:
I have to say that when I mentioned the liar thing at the beginning of this thread, it was meant in general and not targeted at any specific individual on this forum against something they previously posted or questioning your conclusions. I simply briefed through some naysayer posts on activated carbon technology where they questioned or mentioned; whether or not it worked, the temperatures they thought activated carbon HAD to reach for partial de-adsorption, that there was some other technology that worked better, dog sniffing tests, getting winded when they wore Scent Lok because they obviously were not doing everything correctly, etc..

If you thought I was calling you a liar or questioning that you went through an entire season and only got winded once, well I wasn't and apologize if you thought I was. I actually hadn't even read your post about your season until you posted it here as a rebut.

There were many times in my past before using Scent Lok that I had or thought I had deer downwind without getting winded. I may have been up the tree so far that my wind went over them, or maybe I wasn't aware of the subtle way the wind was swirling in my favor, or maybe I was on the side of a ridge on a morning hunt and the natural updraft overpowered the slight wind direction. There are a lot of reasons that a hunter could not take scent regiment precautions and not get winded every time a deer is or he thinks a deer is downwind.

In the distant past the opposite was also true where I had deer wind me that I didn't think were downwind for the very same reasons they didn't wind me when I thought they were downwind.

I really don't care to what extent anyone utilizes scent control technology and for casual hunters I can totally understand why they don't care to make the extreme effort to beat the wind. After all nearly every TV and video personality preaches scent control but I have never seen any of them utilize it correctly and it should be blatantly obvious to everyone watching because they all hunt the wind and have huge gaps in scent control even though they are sponsored by scent control companies. They obviously kill monster bucks with extremely poor scent control regiments, but it also has a TON to do with the no-competition, micro-management properties on which they hunt and to the average joe guys like most on this site, we have to be much more proficient and skillful at everything to be successful on mature bucks where we hunt.

So please don't take this thread as a slam, it's just out there to give factual information on what a bowhunter could do to negate the wind, if he or she is dedicated enough to do so.

 

[Lersanyu]

Thank you for sharing.